Dumping gas from the wing.

Little Pete · January 3rd, 2006, 12:54 PM

Hey folks, all the threads about the Evolve have got me thinking a bit about dumping from wings.

One of the major advantages touted about the Evolve is the ease of using the back dump as the circular cell stops that wiggle you need to get the gas into the left side of a horseshoe wing.
So for those still using a horseshoe wing do you always dump from the rear valve? I will aim to for the most part but when getting the last bits out I tend to just use the inflator hose with a slight tip upwards (helps with the Drysuit dump too).

I only mention it as I've seen some real contortions as people try to get the last bit of air out of the wing using the back dump and I wondered if there was a very good reason for exclusively using the back dump.

**jb2cool** · January 3rd, 2006, 01:00 PM

i tend to use my inflator for dumping more often than not. I really should get into the practice of using the rear dump (Or even remembering that it's there).

Gas balance is one of the reasons why i want a circular wing.

WaterDawg · January 3rd, 2006, 01:02 PM

I only really use my inflator to dump at the surface. And yes I am familiar w/ the contortions.

I wanted a circular wing for doubles since the first time I dove them w/ an H Explorer. But there wasent one. Now there are at least 3 companies that make them and I have one and can say that it is all I ever hoped it to be.

Mats Edenfeldt · January 3rd, 2006, 01:43 PM

I only use AGIR and i only use the dump in the back, it is just when i go down and i have 3 bottles (stage/decos) that i use the inflator to dump. I think you keep your horizontal position better over all when using the rear dump and it is much more efficient i think and easier. I have never hade a problem dumping with an ordinary wing, and i have never hade a problem moving the air from one side to another. It is all about practice

Isn’t it a solution to a problem that’s not really existing when you make a wigs like the Evolve? Ore is it just Halcyon wanting to come up with something new now and then to keep the customers!?!

WaterDawg · January 3rd, 2006, 02:08 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by edenfeldt)

It is all about practice

Yes of course! In fact after a short while you ont even notice having to roll left in order to dump.

Quote: (Originally Posted by edenfeldt)

Isn’t it a solution to a problem that’s not really existing when you make a wigs like the Evolve? Ore is it just Halcyon wanting to come up with something new now and then to keep the customers!?!

I dont think so. Did you see the pics of the Chips hole push? Would WKPP members have done it using that wing for the reasons you mention?

Also as has been stated by Tobin many times and is clearly evident in QBU's pics in the Evolve thread: the major benefit is STREAMLINING.

dwilkinson · January 3rd, 2006, 02:27 PM

On my DR Trek Wing for single tanks I only use the rear dump valve. I use this wing in the tropics. On my DR Classic Wing, it's a bit harder as I use it in Holland in cold water and always seem to have problems finding that little cord with my thick gloves. But once you get used to it, you will find out that you keep stable in the water while dumping. I never noticed the need to role to one side for it to work. Maybe I'm doing it without noticing.

David

Leigh u · January 3rd, 2006, 07:17 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by dwilkinson)

On my DR Trek Wing for single tanks I only use the rear dump valve. I use this wing in the tropics. On my DR Classic Wing, it's a bit harder as I use it in Holland in cold water and always seem to have problems finding that little cord with my thick gloves. But once you get used to it, you will find out that you keep stable in the water while dumping. I never noticed the need to role to one side for it to work. Maybe I'm doing it without noticing.

David

Try a thicker string in the dump valve..it helps in cold water

Rolling to dump is sometimes needed when you are feeling light at the end of a dive and need to get every bit of gas from the wing..there is always a bit trapped on the right side that needs coaxing...generally though I have no trouble dumping the wing without rolling.

Little Pete · January 3rd, 2006, 08:48 PM

Quote:

I only use AGIR and i only use the dump in the back, it is just when i go down and i have 3 bottles (stage/decos) that i use the inflator to dump. I think you keep your horizontal position better over all when using the rear dump and it is much more efficient i think and easier. I have never hade a problem dumping with an ordinary wing, and i have never hade a problem moving the air from one side to another. It is all about practice

I agree that the rear dump is generally easier and is the one I will use (Agir 38lb wing here as well) through the dive. What I was mainly referring to was full dumping as you might do on the ascent. If you are winding in your spool, dumping from the drysuit and dumping the wing, I find it easier to use the inflator and go head up a touch so that the suit dumps better then as well.
When it comes to doing a stop or similar I will trim back out flat but you have to go head up on the ascent somewhat to get the gas out of the suit boots/lower legs in any case (if you have shins raised as we all tend to for finning) so it makes sense to me not to go head down or wiggle just to use the back dump when the hose is there.

All opinions interesting and appreciated though (Except for annoying people who have circular doubles wings, we're not talking to them at the moment :p ).

Regards, Pete

**neilh** · January 3rd, 2006, 09:34 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete)

...but you have to go head up on the ascent somewhat to get the gas out of the suit boots/lower legs in any case (if you have shins raised as we all tend to for finning) so it makes sense to me not to go head down or wiggle just to use the back dump when the hose is there.
...

I'd love to know how other people deal with this. I seem to really struggle with air in my suit! (I'm hoping a si tech valve is going to be the magic bullet, but I think I'm still gonna have to work on it

)

***Bob Cooper*** · January 3rd, 2006, 09:46 PM

You shouldn't need to go head up to dump gas from the wing using the hose dump. If you do, your hose is too short or the bungee is too tight against the harness.

Using the bum dump with 2 stages can be a PITA so the hose dump is often a better option.

Either way, it doesn't matter if you do go a little "less horizontal" to dump some gas. Who cares? Remember, you are not scoring points for "artistic ability".

If you are dumping the last of your gas, you are probably near the surface anyway and there is no silty bottom to kick up.

There are many caves which undulate relentlessly and sometimes you just need to find a place where you can stretch your legs, go vertical and get gas out.

Don't worry about it, that's what I say :-)

Bob

January 3rd, 2006, 12:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
Little Pete(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 509	Dumping gas from the wing. Hey folks, all the threads about the Evolve have got me thinking a bit about dumping from wings. One of the major advantages touted about the Evolve is the ease of using the back dump as the circular cell stops that wiggle you need to get the gas into the left side of a horseshoe wing. So for those still using a horseshoe wing do you always dump from the rear valve? I will aim to for the most part but when getting the last bits out I tend to just use the inflator hose with a slight tip upwards (helps with the Drysuit dump too). I only mention it as I've seen some real contortions as people try to get the last bit of air out of the wing using the back dump and I wondered if there was a very good reason for exclusively using the back dump.

January 3rd, 2006, 01:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 798	i tend to use my inflator for dumping more often than not. I really should get into the practice of using the rear dump (Or even remembering that it's there). Gas balance is one of the reasons why i want a circular wing. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com

January 3rd, 2006, 01:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
WaterDawg(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: FL Posts: 28	I only really use my inflator to dump at the surface. And yes I am familiar w/ the contortions. I wanted a circular wing for doubles since the first time I dove them w/ an H Explorer. But there wasent one. Now there are at least 3 companies that make them and I have one and can say that it is all I ever hoped it to be. Last edited by WaterDawg; January 3rd, 2006 at 01:06 PM.

January 3rd, 2006, 01:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mats Edenfeldt(Offline) Cave is fun :) Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden - Stockholm Posts: 157	Only use AGIR... I only use AGIR and i only use the dump in the back, it is just when i go down and i have 3 bottles (stage/decos) that i use the inflator to dump. I think you keep your horizontal position better over all when using the rear dump and it is much more efficient i think and easier. I have never hade a problem dumping with an ordinary wing, and i have never hade a problem moving the air from one side to another. It is all about practice Isn’t it a solution to a problem that’s not really existing when you make a wigs like the Evolve? Ore is it just Halcyon wanting to come up with something new now and then to keep the customers!?! __________________ GUE: DIR-Fundamentals, Cave 1, Cave 2 NAUI: Trimix 1, Technical diver, Instructor, DM, Wreck penetration, Oxygen service technician IANTD: Advanced Nitrox, Nitrox Various: Apeks tech, Poseidon tech "Doing it right really means to do it properly. No skimping and no compromises. It sounds easy enough but it is not - it requires balls of steel" Peter Steinhoff

January 3rd, 2006, 02:08 PM	#5 (permalink)
WaterDawg(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: FL Posts: 28	Quote: (Originally Posted by edenfeldt) It is all about practice Yes of course! In fact after a short while you ont even notice having to roll left in order to dump. Quote: (Originally Posted by edenfeldt) Isn’t it a solution to a problem that’s not really existing when you make a wigs like the Evolve? Ore is it just Halcyon wanting to come up with something new now and then to keep the customers!?! I dont think so. Did you see the pics of the Chips hole push? Would WKPP members have done it using that wing for the reasons you mention? Also as has been stated by Tobin many times and is clearly evident in QBU's pics in the Evolve thread: the major benefit is STREAMLINING.

January 3rd, 2006, 02:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
dwilkinson(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 17	On my DR Trek Wing for single tanks I only use the rear dump valve. I use this wing in the tropics. On my DR Classic Wing, it's a bit harder as I use it in Holland in cold water and always seem to have problems finding that little cord with my thick gloves. But once you get used to it, you will find out that you keep stable in the water while dumping. I never noticed the need to role to one side for it to work. Maybe I'm doing it without noticing. David

January 3rd, 2006, 07:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
Leigh u(Offline) We Go Down Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ottawa Canada Posts: 227	Quote: (Originally Posted by dwilkinson) On my DR Trek Wing for single tanks I only use the rear dump valve. I use this wing in the tropics. On my DR Classic Wing, it's a bit harder as I use it in Holland in cold water and always seem to have problems finding that little cord with my thick gloves. But once you get used to it, you will find out that you keep stable in the water while dumping. I never noticed the need to role to one side for it to work. Maybe I'm doing it without noticing. David Try a thicker string in the dump valve..it helps in cold water Rolling to dump is sometimes needed when you are feeling light at the end of a dive and need to get every bit of gas from the wing..there is always a bit trapped on the right side that needs coaxing...generally though I have no trouble dumping the wing without rolling.

January 3rd, 2006, 08:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
Little Pete(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 509	Quote: I only use AGIR and i only use the dump in the back, it is just when i go down and i have 3 bottles (stage/decos) that i use the inflator to dump. I think you keep your horizontal position better over all when using the rear dump and it is much more efficient i think and easier. I have never hade a problem dumping with an ordinary wing, and i have never hade a problem moving the air from one side to another. It is all about practice I agree that the rear dump is generally easier and is the one I will use (Agir 38lb wing here as well) through the dive. What I was mainly referring to was full dumping as you might do on the ascent. If you are winding in your spool, dumping from the drysuit and dumping the wing, I find it easier to use the inflator and go head up a touch so that the suit dumps better then as well. When it comes to doing a stop or similar I will trim back out flat but you have to go head up on the ascent somewhat to get the gas out of the suit boots/lower legs in any case (if you have shins raised as we all tend to for finning) so it makes sense to me not to go head down or wiggle just to use the back dump when the hose is there. All opinions interesting and appreciated though (Except for annoying people who have circular doubles wings, we're not talking to them at the moment :p ). Regards, Pete

January 3rd, 2006, 09:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
neilh(Offline) Haemoglobin on the bus... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Barnsley, UK Posts: 1,900	Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete) ...but you have to go head up on the ascent somewhat to get the gas out of the suit boots/lower legs in any case (if you have shins raised as we all tend to for finning) so it makes sense to me not to go head down or wiggle just to use the back dump when the hose is there. ... I'd love to know how other people deal with this. I seem to really struggle with air in my suit! (I'm hoping a si tech valve is going to be the magic bullet, but I think I'm still gonna have to work on it )

January 3rd, 2006, 09:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
*Bob Cooper*(Offline) Moderator - "Don't stop me now!" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: South East London, UK Posts: 680	You shouldn't need to go head up to dump gas from the wing using the hose dump. If you do, your hose is too short or the bungee is too tight against the harness. Using the bum dump with 2 stages can be a PITA so the hose dump is often a better option. Either way, it doesn't matter if you do go a little "less horizontal" to dump some gas. Who cares? Remember, you are not scoring points for "artistic ability". If you are dumping the last of your gas, you are probably near the surface anyway and there is no silty bottom to kick up. There are many caves which undulate relentlessly and sometimes you just need to find a place where you can stretch your legs, go vertical and get gas out. Don't worry about it, that's what I say :-) Bob