Use of helmets - DIR or not?

mdemon · March 16th, 2008, 09:45 AM

Can someone answer a question (or two) for me please?

1) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet?

2) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet with torches on?

Thank you!

**Alastair** · March 16th, 2008, 10:52 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by mdemon)

Can someone answer a question (or two) for me please?

1) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet?

2) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet with torches on?

Thank you!

No and no.

There are reasons of course. It could prevent the donation of the long hose, something that really isn't sensible. It's also not really necessary for diving underwater you shouldn't be ramming your head into the cave/wreck ceiling - better to improve your awareness of the environment. As for helmet mounted lights they are useless for signalling - how do you do an OK, how do you keep the light forward to indicate to your buddy you are still behind them when you might want to look somewhere else, how do you create an emergency signal, etc etc.

I believe the CDG use them but then they are diving solo so the signalling isn't an issue and they are often caving to get to the water where a helmet is sensible to protect your head. DIR diving is all about underwater and in a team so they would be the wrong tool for the job

Cheers
Al

Ali Fikree · March 16th, 2008, 11:07 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Alastair)

No and no.

As for helmet mounted lights they are useless for signalling - how do you do an OK, how do you keep the light forward to indicate to your buddy you are still behind them when you might want to look somewhere else, how do you create an emergency signal, etc etc.

Cheers
Al

Think of a Metallica fan underwater head banging to Enter Sandman for "out of air" and a stoned hippie for an "ok"

A

prharris · March 16th, 2008, 11:26 AM

I've only done cave 1 and none of the situations encountered on the course or since have required the use of a helmet.

However there could be occasions over here in caves, mines (or even wrecks) that are tighter than I'm used to, which would require a re-think of kit, e.g. to a sidemounted system.

In that eventuality there may not be the room to excercise perfect buoyancy and some restrictions may require one to crawl through a restriction - this is obviously beyond cave1.

If that was the case, then a helmet for protection, not as a mounting, could be a good idea.

ATEOTD, it's not the helmet that prevents long hose donataion, but all of the stuff ty-wrapped to it. In a tight squeeze, the point may be moot as the restriction itself might cause problems donating the long hose if its wrapped as normal.

r
P

*JGrogan* · March 16th, 2008, 12:09 PM

If the cave you're trying to get to involves walking through some dry cave to get to the water, then you should probably wear a helmet. For example, in France if the water levels are low, you might want to wear one going into Trou Madame. If you're going beyond the daylight zone, then you'd probably want a light on it too.

However, there is no need for them underwater.
Best,
John.

Quote: (Originally Posted by mdemon)

Can someone answer a question (or two) for me please?

1) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet?

2) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet with torches on?

Thank you!

***Fiona*** · March 16th, 2008, 12:14 PM

Me thinks John Rudolf (just in case there was some confusion) is being a wee bit

and I wonder why he is asking a question he already knows the answer to.

caverkevin · March 16th, 2008, 01:23 PM

It is DIR to wear a helmet covered in lights, but you have to be crawling on you hands and knees in a dry cave. Because it is not DIR hold the flashing in your mouth. If diving, you trade your helmet for dive gear.

Then you are left with the question, is it DIR to start a cave dive that is inside a dry cave system?

Cheers!!

Kevin

**Howard Payne** · March 16th, 2008, 02:26 PM

Before everyone gets too creative - this is John Rudolph - top UK deep tech diver - uses a homebuild twin scrubber rebreather - mad as a badger

The answer is of course they're DIR - but the 14 backuplights have to be attached to the helmet with caveline.

When Jarrod and Casey finally announce in 12 months time that the Wakulla dives have finally called for a CCR and that the Rudolph Mk15.5 Twin Scrubber is a visionary piece of rebreather design and will become the WKPP weapon of choice - then I will be eating humble pie of course

But in the meantime - go and stand on the naughty step - bad Rudolph!

SubAquatic · March 16th, 2008, 02:34 PM

mdemon · March 16th, 2008, 04:26 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ali Fikree)

Think of a Metallica fan underwater head banging to Enter Sandman for "out of air" and a stoned hippie for an "ok"

A

LOL!

to "Enter the Sandman"!

I have that tune in my underwater MP3 player. Guess where I have that mounted?

Fiona/Howard: Not mischief-making, I promise! The question was raised on SWM so I thought I'd ask the experts. I was pulled up for saying helmets were banned - which it appears they still are. Feel free to have a look/comment >>here<< - some nice comments made about JJ and GUE from non-GUE divers.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Returning to naughty step...

Quote: (Originally Posted by Howard)

top UK deep tech diver

That would have most of the real 'top UK deep tech diver's choking on their sofnalime! :D

March 16th, 2008, 09:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
mdemon(Offline) New Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Red Sea Posts: 12	Use of helmets - DIR or not? Can someone answer a question (or two) for me please? 1) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet? 2) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet with torches on? Thank you! __________________ www.southwestmafia.com

March 16th, 2008, 10:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
Alastair(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 693	Quote: (Originally Posted by mdemon) Can someone answer a question (or two) for me please? 1) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet? 2) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet with torches on? Thank you! No and no. There are reasons of course. It could prevent the donation of the long hose, something that really isn't sensible. It's also not really necessary for diving underwater you shouldn't be ramming your head into the cave/wreck ceiling - better to improve your awareness of the environment. As for helmet mounted lights they are useless for signalling - how do you do an OK, how do you keep the light forward to indicate to your buddy you are still behind them when you might want to look somewhere else, how do you create an emergency signal, etc etc. I believe the CDG use them but then they are diving solo so the signalling isn't an issue and they are often caving to get to the water where a helmet is sensible to protect your head. DIR diving is all about underwater and in a team so they would be the wrong tool for the job Cheers Al __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3

March 16th, 2008, 11:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ali Fikree (Online) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dubai Posts: 462	Quote: (Originally Posted by Alastair) No and no. As for helmet mounted lights they are useless for signalling - how do you do an OK, how do you keep the light forward to indicate to your buddy you are still behind them when you might want to look somewhere else, how do you create an emergency signal, etc etc. Cheers Al Think of a Metallica fan underwater head banging to Enter Sandman for "out of air" and a stoned hippie for an "ok" A __________________ Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul

March 16th, 2008, 12:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
*Fiona*(Offline) Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Up North Posts: 1,206	Me thinks John Rudolf (just in case there was some confusion) is being a wee bit and I wonder why he is asking a question he already knows the answer to. __________________ Fiona Resistance was Futile Move Along YD GUE Member Last edited by Fiona; March 16th, 2008 at 03:01 PM.

March 16th, 2008, 02:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
Howard Payne(Offline) Strokey Dokily Doo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,202	Before everyone gets too creative - this is John Rudolph - top UK deep tech diver - uses a homebuild twin scrubber rebreather - mad as a badger The answer is of course they're DIR - but the 14 backuplights have to be attached to the helmet with caveline. When Jarrod and Casey finally announce in 12 months time that the Wakulla dives have finally called for a CCR and that the Rudolph Mk15.5 Twin Scrubber is a visionary piece of rebreather design and will become the WKPP weapon of choice - then I will be eating humble pie of course But in the meantime - go and stand on the naughty step - bad Rudolph! __________________ The Foxturd Chimp

March 16th, 2008, 11:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
prharris(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth Posts: 91	I've only done cave 1 and none of the situations encountered on the course or since have required the use of a helmet. However there could be occasions over here in caves, mines (or even wrecks) that are tighter than I'm used to, which would require a re-think of kit, e.g. to a sidemounted system. In that eventuality there may not be the room to excercise perfect buoyancy and some restrictions may require one to crawl through a restriction - this is obviously beyond cave1. If that was the case, then a helmet for protection, not as a mounting, could be a good idea. ATEOTD, it's not the helmet that prevents long hose donataion, but all of the stuff ty-wrapped to it. In a tight squeeze, the point may be moot as the restriction itself might cause problems donating the long hose if its wrapped as normal. r P

March 16th, 2008, 12:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
JGrogan(Offline) GUE Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 439	If the cave you're trying to get to involves walking through some dry cave to get to the water, then you should probably wear a helmet. For example, in France if the water levels are low, you might want to wear one going into Trou Madame. If you're going beyond the daylight zone, then you'd probably want a light on it too. However, there is no need for them underwater. Best, John. Quote: (Originally Posted by mdemon) Can someone answer a question (or two) for me please? 1) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet? 2) Is it "DIR" to use a helmet with torches on? Thank you!

March 16th, 2008, 01:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
caverkevin(Offline) Doing It Caverkevin Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North Kackilackie Posts: 361	It is DIR to wear a helmet covered in lights, but you have to be crawling on you hands and knees in a dry cave. Because it is not DIR hold the flashing in your mouth. If diving, you trade your helmet for dive gear. Then you are left with the question, is it DIR to start a cave dive that is inside a dry cave system? Cheers!! Kevin

March 16th, 2008, 02:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
SubAquatic(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Perth Posts: 110	__________________ www.subaquatic.com.au Australia's Finest Dive Gear

March 16th, 2008, 04:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
mdemon(Offline) New Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Red Sea Posts: 12	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ali Fikree) Think of a Metallica fan underwater head banging to Enter Sandman for "out of air" and a stoned hippie for an "ok" A LOL! to "Enter the Sandman"! I have that tune in my underwater MP3 player. Guess where I have that mounted? Fiona/Howard: Not mischief-making, I promise! The question was raised on SWM so I thought I'd ask the experts. I was pulled up for saying helmets were banned - which it appears they still are. Feel free to have a look/comment >>here<< - some nice comments made about JJ and GUE from non-GUE divers. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Returning to naughty step... Quote: (Originally Posted by Howard) top UK deep tech diver That would have most of the real 'top UK deep tech diver's choking on their sofnalime! :D __________________ www.southwestmafia.com