Night Diving Depth gauge watching.

Martin Burnard · October 11th, 2006, 02:27 PM

Ok this is a follow on from a thread last year, but as It's now dark again here in Blighty I thought we might revisit things.

The scenario is night dive and doing the ascent. We are talking within recreational limits here before anybody goes loopy!

Trotters (my regular buddy) may have cracked it.

I send my delay up with the necessary glowstick attached. we then both ascend on that line. Him slightly above me and shining his torch to one side of my arm. the light scatter is ample for me to clearly read my gauge as we ascend. He then stays a constant height above me, I wind in the line and control the ascent rate and stops, he provides illumination.

It worked a treat. In a team of three this would work really well.

There a winter tip!

GLOC · October 11th, 2006, 02:55 PM

Funny enough we had one of those learning experiences on Saturday after the dive on the Coronation.

In the past we (Rob, Wilbo and I) had debated how to stay in position when ascending in a running current and when one person has an SMB up. The problem with the standard 3 pointed star was that 1 or 2 people have to backfin like doolally to maintain position. On Saturday we tried the line abreast method and it worked a treat.

Formate as a 3 for the bag shoot and then move into line abreast position with No 1 in the middle and 2 left, 3 right. 2 & 3 would sit slightly higher than No 1 to see each other over the tanks, and then point their torches on No 1's respective arm, 2 left, 3 right. Everyone can now see that everyone else is in position. The bag man controls time so he can signal with his light or hand what needs to be done.

It all about learning...

Martin Burnard · October 11th, 2006, 05:22 PM

See these "Puddle paddling cave whallers" just don't know what they miss in our eventful waters!

LCF · October 11th, 2006, 08:21 PM

Thanks for the tip and I'll have to give it a try. Very timely, as most of our dives will be night dives for the duration.

*Brian Allen* · October 11th, 2006, 10:29 PM

Nice idea, and am sure it works, but I'm not so sure that this is such a good ascent idea. As you'd be out of position for easy reg donation, communication will become a touch harder and the actual ascent for the team may be more difficult to control especially if there 3 of you instead of just 2.

Martin, I know you're not gas switching so alot of the above isn't so important on your recreational depths but you and Ian are planning on going down the trimix route and going through your Adv Nitrox Deco course at the mo so maybe you could use the techniques we do when coming up from depth where it is completely dark. We've never had a problem with using your torch in your left hand to illuminate gauges on your right. Also when everyone has a good torch there's often enough light to read the gauge anyway, plus if you've got an Aladin tec you could always increase the time for the light and just occaisionally press and hold the left button to turn the light on.

Good discussion though, what does everyone else think???

*David Martin* · October 11th, 2006, 11:09 PM

Hi Martin,

I'm sure that this would work, but I don't see why you need to do it.

Diver 1 controls depth/time and has his light in his hand for signaling.

Diver 2 winds up the spool - with his light clipped off at the rear. He can look at his guage from time to time (by directing his clipped off light at it, or using the backlight), but should not need to look at it constantly - his primary reference is diver 1. He will have a good idea of how he's moving due to how he's winding the DSMB and also his awareness of buoyancy/ears etc.
(Alternatively Diver 2's light can be in his hand, it makes looking at the guage easier, but care needs to be taken to keep the left hand still so as not to give erroneous signals. It's also a bit more of a pain if there are other things to do as well as wind the spool.)

Both divers can be on the same level, the roles are more equally split and split in the same way that they'd be split normally.

A protocol which requires divers to be on different levels doesn't seem right to me - it's harder to see each other harder to move to each other in an emergency and is something to "unlearn" for dives where the ascent control is more important (eg with gas switches).

David

Martin Burnard · October 12th, 2006, 11:54 AM

Different levels?
Hardly a problem as we are talking still within prodding reach, not many metres.

Moving to each other in an emergency?
No need we are there already and eye contact is no problem.

As for ascent rate with use of ears, hmm better diver than me (but maybe one day!).

Using a primary to view the gauge can be overkill and dazzling if it reflects.

Splitting of roles?... You provide light, I provide ascent rate.

I see where you are all coming from, and without trying all forms I cannot judge.

What I do know is that what we did was simple, effective, split the task, and maintained close contact.

Joe Hesketh · October 12th, 2006, 12:49 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard)

Using a primary to view the gauge can be overkill and dazzling if it reflects.

You might be quite happily sucking eggs on this one already, apologies if that’s the case, but you can better read gauges from the spill in the beam of your primary (i.e. the fainter wide cone of light around the central focused beam). You are right, if you shine it directly on the gauge you can’t see anything.

HTH
Joe

Martin Burnard · October 12th, 2006, 01:00 PM

Happy sucking eggs.

*Brian Allen* · October 12th, 2006, 02:27 PM

I'd just say that having another procedure for a dark ascent seems to over complicate a procedure that is really quite simple and not an issue. During the dive itself you'll have been checking your gauge quite regularly with the edge of your torch beam anyway.

Why introduce another task/procedure? It's another thing to learn, and very easy to get out of sequence if for example the torch diver decided to check his SPG and own gauge when the reel diver wants to look at his gauge. What about if the torch diver is dumping his wing and has therefore put the torch in the other hand, what about in the future if he's preparing for a stage swap??? Aren't things just best kept simple?

October 11th, 2006, 02:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
Martin Burnard(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 580	Night Diving Depth gauge watching. Ok this is a follow on from a thread last year, but as It's now dark again here in Blighty I thought we might revisit things. The scenario is night dive and doing the ascent. We are talking within recreational limits here before anybody goes loopy! Trotters (my regular buddy) may have cracked it. I send my delay up with the necessary glowstick attached. we then both ascend on that line. Him slightly above me and shining his torch to one side of my arm. the light scatter is ample for me to clearly read my gauge as we ascend. He then stays a constant height above me, I wind in the line and control the ascent rate and stops, he provides illumination. It worked a treat. In a team of three this would work really well. There a winter tip! __________________ I once enjoyed a sado-masachistic frenzy of total tintintabulation leading to a state of metampsychosis... or did I make that up? www.bananafrogcars.co.uk

October 11th, 2006, 02:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
GLOC (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,963	Funny enough we had one of those learning experiences on Saturday after the dive on the Coronation. In the past we (Rob, Wilbo and I) had debated how to stay in position when ascending in a running current and when one person has an SMB up. The problem with the standard 3 pointed star was that 1 or 2 people have to backfin like doolally to maintain position. On Saturday we tried the line abreast method and it worked a treat. Formate as a 3 for the bag shoot and then move into line abreast position with No 1 in the middle and 2 left, 3 right. 2 & 3 would sit slightly higher than No 1 to see each other over the tanks, and then point their torches on No 1's respective arm, 2 left, 3 right. Everyone can now see that everyone else is in position. The bag man controls time so he can signal with his light or hand what needs to be done. It all about learning... __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

October 11th, 2006, 05:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Martin Burnard(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 580	See these "Puddle paddling cave whallers" just don't know what they miss in our eventful waters! __________________ I once enjoyed a sado-masachistic frenzy of total tintintabulation leading to a state of metampsychosis... or did I make that up? www.bananafrogcars.co.uk

October 11th, 2006, 10:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
Brian Allen(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London & Plymouth Posts: 594	Nice idea, and am sure it works, but I'm not so sure that this is such a good ascent idea. As you'd be out of position for easy reg donation, communication will become a touch harder and the actual ascent for the team may be more difficult to control especially if there 3 of you instead of just 2. Martin, I know you're not gas switching so alot of the above isn't so important on your recreational depths but you and Ian are planning on going down the trimix route and going through your Adv Nitrox Deco course at the mo so maybe you could use the techniques we do when coming up from depth where it is completely dark. We've never had a problem with using your torch in your left hand to illuminate gauges on your right. Also when everyone has a good torch there's often enough light to read the gauge anyway, plus if you've got an Aladin tec you could always increase the time for the light and just occaisionally press and hold the left button to turn the light on. Good discussion though, what does everyone else think??? __________________ ...dive planning again ... GUE fundamentals and Halcyon Equipment Online www.ocean-explorers.co.uk

October 12th, 2006, 11:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
Martin Burnard(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 580	Different levels? Different levels? Hardly a problem as we are talking still within prodding reach, not many metres. Moving to each other in an emergency? No need we are there already and eye contact is no problem. As for ascent rate with use of ears, hmm better diver than me (but maybe one day!). Using a primary to view the gauge can be overkill and dazzling if it reflects. Splitting of roles?... You provide light, I provide ascent rate. I see where you are all coming from, and without trying all forms I cannot judge. What I do know is that what we did was simple, effective, split the task, and maintained close contact. __________________ I once enjoyed a sado-masachistic frenzy of total tintintabulation leading to a state of metampsychosis... or did I make that up? www.bananafrogcars.co.uk Last edited by Martin Burnard; October 12th, 2006 at 12:05 PM.

October 11th, 2006, 08:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 623	Thanks for the tip and I'll have to give it a try. Very timely, as most of our dives will be night dives for the duration.

October 11th, 2006, 11:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
David Martin(Offline) Instructor candidate Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, E11 Posts: 419	Hi Martin, I'm sure that this would work, but I don't see why you need to do it. Diver 1 controls depth/time and has his light in his hand for signaling. Diver 2 winds up the spool - with his light clipped off at the rear. He can look at his guage from time to time (by directing his clipped off light at it, or using the backlight), but should not need to look at it constantly - his primary reference is diver 1. He will have a good idea of how he's moving due to how he's winding the DSMB and also his awareness of buoyancy/ears etc. (Alternatively Diver 2's light can be in his hand, it makes looking at the guage easier, but care needs to be taken to keep the left hand still so as not to give erroneous signals. It's also a bit more of a pain if there are other things to do as well as wind the spool.) Both divers can be on the same level, the roles are more equally split and split in the same way that they'd be split normally. A protocol which requires divers to be on different levels doesn't seem right to me - it's harder to see each other harder to move to each other in an emergency and is something to "unlearn" for dives where the ascent control is more important (eg with gas switches). David

October 12th, 2006, 12:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Joe Hesketh(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 657	Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard) Using a primary to view the gauge can be overkill and dazzling if it reflects. You might be quite happily sucking eggs on this one already, apologies if that’s the case, but you can better read gauges from the spill in the beam of your primary (i.e. the fainter wide cone of light around the central focused beam). You are right, if you shine it directly on the gauge you can’t see anything. HTH Joe

October 12th, 2006, 01:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
Martin Burnard(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 580	Happy sucking eggs. __________________ I once enjoyed a sado-masachistic frenzy of total tintintabulation leading to a state of metampsychosis... or did I make that up? www.bananafrogcars.co.uk

October 12th, 2006, 02:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
Brian Allen(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London & Plymouth Posts: 594	I'd just say that having another procedure for a dark ascent seems to over complicate a procedure that is really quite simple and not an issue. During the dive itself you'll have been checking your gauge quite regularly with the edge of your torch beam anyway. Why introduce another task/procedure? It's another thing to learn, and very easy to get out of sequence if for example the torch diver decided to check his SPG and own gauge when the reel diver wants to look at his gauge. What about if the torch diver is dumping his wing and has therefore put the torch in the other hand, what about in the future if he's preparing for a stage swap??? Aren't things just best kept simple? __________________ ...dive planning again ... GUE fundamentals and Halcyon Equipment Online www.ocean-explorers.co.uk