Equipment placement violation???

Davey Willo · August 30th, 2006, 09:55 PM

I just came across this picture whilst checking out some of the WKPP project galleries and was quite shocked to see a d-ring being used on a cannister light to hang a large reel from.. I'm aware that these guys are required to transport massive amounts of gear at any one time and compromises need to be made, but I thought the whole reason that we keep the right side clear is for donating the long hose, the set-up in this picture completely inhibits clean and full deployment of it.

http://www.gue.com/Galleries/WKPP/Le...heryl_2493.jpg

Can any of the WKPP guys explain why one of our most fundamental equipment considerations has been compromised, I'm not having a go here, I'm genuinely interested.

Thanks in advance guys
Dave.

GLOC · August 30th, 2006, 10:05 PM

Did you mean this image http://www.gue.com/Galleries/WKPP/Le...heryl_2493.jpg

Again, not knowing the full circumstances, what other options are there. From my point of view, once the hose has been donated there will be a minute or so to calm down and then the donator can unclip the 'reel' before deploying the hose fully and then re-clipping the 'reel'. Clipping the reel on the other side of the long hose would cause problems as there wouldn't be anywhere to stow the hose while in normal operation.

DIR cannot cover every eventuality and this seems like one of those compromises when pushing a major exped.

Davey Willo · August 30th, 2006, 10:17 PM

Thanks for the correct link GLOC.. doh!! I've edited it now so as not to confuse peeps

Of course I understand there needs to be compromises with these sort of pushes mate, I stated the same in my initial post, I also figured out what steps it would take to fully deploy the long hose... but to my mind in all of the years I've been into DIR the golden rule, the one thing that dictated so much other equipment positioning was the clean and uninhibited deployment of the long hose.

I've seen support divers going in with much much more equipment than Scott is carrying in this picture and yet have never seen the long hose locked in like that which is what initiated my question.

Dave

**jb2cool** · August 30th, 2006, 10:18 PM

Jesus!!!

That's almost as big as Howard's old McMahon reel.

GLOC · August 30th, 2006, 10:21 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Davey Willo)

Thanks for the correct link GLOC.. doh!!

Of course I understand there needs to be compromises with these sort of pushes, I stated the same in my initial post, I also figured out what steps it would take to fully deploy the long hose... but to my mind in all of the years I've been into DIR the golden rule, the one thing that dictated so much other equipment positioning was the clean and uninhibited deployment of the long hose.

I've seen support divers going in with much much more equipment than Scott is carrying in this picture and yet have never seen the long hose locked in like that which is what initiated my question.

Dave

Sorry should have read your post more clearly...

With something of that bulk, I don't know what other options there might be. Sorry.

Little Pete · August 30th, 2006, 10:22 PM

Dave,

As Gareth says, this is apparently the best place to store this one off piece of kit (I think we can safely assume it won't replace the pathfinder in the halcyon catalogue).

Quote:

why one of our most fundamental equipment considerations has been compromised

I don't see the unit interfering with the long hose any more than a canister torch does. With a torch you cannot fully deploy the long hose without moving around the lighthead and with this you cannot without moving the reel around. To me it wouldn't be a major issue in that you could still get a few feet of hose to get the reg to the OOG diver then sort it out when it's calmed down a bit.

Gareth Burrows · August 30th, 2006, 10:23 PM

Actually, this is a very good spot, nice one.

I'm with you Gareth on the potential need to adapt on some of the more extreme dives, but as Willo stated, I'm surpised that this adaption occurs where it could interfere with the deployment of the long hose.

Davey Willo · August 30th, 2006, 10:29 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete)

Dave,

As Gareth says, this is apparently the best place to store this one off piece of kit

I would have to disagree mate...

Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete)

I don't see the unit interfering with the long hose any more than a canister torch does.

Huh!!! Dude, check out the picture again.

Theres obviously a very good reason for it and I'm sure that one of the WKPP guys will be along shortly to put us out of our misery and explain the logic or at least what dictates such a flagrant violation of DIR-ness

Little Pete · August 30th, 2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Huh!!! Dude, check out the picture again.

Still don't see it. He can deploy the first part of the hose comfortably. The freeing of the rest of the hose will involve moving the lighthead and moving the reel. Since the OOG diver should have gas then there is no strict time limit on this section.

Also it may have been for a short jump section before they began using the reel in the same way some DIR folks clip the reel to the stage nose bolt snap if they are only transporting it a short way before using.

Davey Willo · August 30th, 2006, 10:46 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete)

Still don't see it. He can deploy the first part of the hose comfortably.

We're all able to deploy the first part of the hose confortably Pete, but what is and has always been paramount in our training is never ever restrict the full deployment of the long hose, even down to making sure we tuck the light cord under the hose and not over it when we're finished with the light.

Using your logic it doesn't matter then what we do as far as equipment is concerned, we can deploy so much of the long hose and faff with the rest later seeing as how the diver now has gas.. I'd have to disagree that this is acceptable logic mate.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete)

The freeing of the rest of the hose will involve moving the lighthead and moving the reel.

The freeing of the long hose should be slick and simple, they could be in a restriction for example, or in zero viz or any other difficult situation where having to mess around with Gods biggest reel to donate to your struggling buddy could compromise his/her safety... it just doesn't go with the whole DIR ethos

Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete)

Also it may have been for a short jump section before they began using the reel in the same way some DIR folks clip the reel to the stage nose bolt snap if they are only transporting it a short way before using.

Mate, we're all aware that we configure and train for Murphy attacking at just the wrong time, a short jump isn't short enough to compromise or create a contradiction to our whole philosophy of being able to act immediately and without issue..

I've always been under the impression that nothing in Christendom is allowed to effect donating the long hose, you might say that just about every other part of our Hogarthian rig is configured around that fact...

I'm simply asking for a reason (A convincing one hopefully) by those who know rather than you and I speculate or debate the why's and wherefores.

Dave

August 30th, 2006, 09:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
Davey Willo(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cleveland Posts: 197	Equipment placement violation??? I just came across this picture whilst checking out some of the WKPP project galleries and was quite shocked to see a d-ring being used on a cannister light to hang a large reel from.. I'm aware that these guys are required to transport massive amounts of gear at any one time and compromises need to be made, but I thought the whole reason that we keep the right side clear is for donating the long hose, the set-up in this picture completely inhibits clean and full deployment of it. http://www.gue.com/Galleries/WKPP/Le...heryl_2493.jpg Can any of the WKPP guys explain why one of our most fundamental equipment considerations has been compromised, I'm not having a go here, I'm genuinely interested. Thanks in advance guys Dave. Last edited by Davey Willo; August 30th, 2006 at 10:20 PM.

August 30th, 2006, 10:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
GLOC (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,963	Did you mean this image http://www.gue.com/Galleries/WKPP/Le...heryl_2493.jpg Again, not knowing the full circumstances, what other options are there. From my point of view, once the hose has been donated there will be a minute or so to calm down and then the donator can unclip the 'reel' before deploying the hose fully and then re-clipping the 'reel'. Clipping the reel on the other side of the long hose would cause problems as there wouldn't be anywhere to stow the hose while in normal operation. DIR cannot cover every eventuality and this seems like one of those compromises when pushing a major exped. __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

August 30th, 2006, 10:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
Davey Willo(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cleveland Posts: 197	Thanks for the correct link GLOC.. doh!! I've edited it now so as not to confuse peeps Of course I understand there needs to be compromises with these sort of pushes mate, I stated the same in my initial post, I also figured out what steps it would take to fully deploy the long hose... but to my mind in all of the years I've been into DIR the golden rule, the one thing that dictated so much other equipment positioning was the clean and uninhibited deployment of the long hose. I've seen support divers going in with much much more equipment than Scott is carrying in this picture and yet have never seen the long hose locked in like that which is what initiated my question. Dave Last edited by Davey Willo; August 30th, 2006 at 10:22 PM.

August 30th, 2006, 10:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 797	Jesus!!! That's almost as big as Howard's old McMahon reel. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com

August 30th, 2006, 10:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
GLOC (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,963	Quote: (Originally Posted by Davey Willo) Thanks for the correct link GLOC.. doh!! Of course I understand there needs to be compromises with these sort of pushes, I stated the same in my initial post, I also figured out what steps it would take to fully deploy the long hose... but to my mind in all of the years I've been into DIR the golden rule, the one thing that dictated so much other equipment positioning was the clean and uninhibited deployment of the long hose. I've seen support divers going in with much much more equipment than Scott is carrying in this picture and yet have never seen the long hose locked in like that which is what initiated my question. Dave Sorry should have read your post more clearly... With something of that bulk, I don't know what other options there might be. Sorry. __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

August 30th, 2006, 10:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
Little Pete(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 509	Dave, As Gareth says, this is apparently the best place to store this one off piece of kit (I think we can safely assume it won't replace the pathfinder in the halcyon catalogue). Quote: why one of our most fundamental equipment considerations has been compromised I don't see the unit interfering with the long hose any more than a canister torch does. With a torch you cannot fully deploy the long hose without moving around the lighthead and with this you cannot without moving the reel around. To me it wouldn't be a major issue in that you could still get a few feet of hose to get the reg to the OOG diver then sort it out when it's calmed down a bit. __________________ The shortesk pink mask wearing str#ke on DIRx apparently

August 30th, 2006, 10:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
Gareth Burrows(Offline) Chimp 2 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Horsham, West Sussex Posts: 365	Actually, this is a very good spot, nice one. I'm with you Gareth on the potential need to adapt on some of the more extreme dives, but as Willo stated, I'm surpised that this adaption occurs where it could interfere with the deployment of the long hose. __________________ Garf Amusing and Clever Signature under construction.

August 30th, 2006, 10:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
Davey Willo(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cleveland Posts: 197	Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete) Dave, As Gareth says, this is apparently the best place to store this one off piece of kit I would have to disagree mate... Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete) I don't see the unit interfering with the long hose any more than a canister torch does. Huh!!! Dude, check out the picture again. Theres obviously a very good reason for it and I'm sure that one of the WKPP guys will be along shortly to put us out of our misery and explain the logic or at least what dictates such a flagrant violation of DIR-ness

August 30th, 2006, 10:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
Little Pete(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 509	Quote: Huh!!! Dude, check out the picture again. Still don't see it. He can deploy the first part of the hose comfortably. The freeing of the rest of the hose will involve moving the lighthead and moving the reel. Since the OOG diver should have gas then there is no strict time limit on this section. Also it may have been for a short jump section before they began using the reel in the same way some DIR folks clip the reel to the stage nose bolt snap if they are only transporting it a short way before using. __________________ The shortesk pink mask wearing str#ke on DIRx apparently

August 30th, 2006, 10:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
Davey Willo(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cleveland Posts: 197	Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete) Still don't see it. He can deploy the first part of the hose comfortably. We're all able to deploy the first part of the hose confortably Pete, but what is and has always been paramount in our training is never ever restrict the full deployment of the long hose, even down to making sure we tuck the light cord under the hose and not over it when we're finished with the light. Using your logic it doesn't matter then what we do as far as equipment is concerned, we can deploy so much of the long hose and faff with the rest later seeing as how the diver now has gas.. I'd have to disagree that this is acceptable logic mate. Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete) The freeing of the rest of the hose will involve moving the lighthead and moving the reel. The freeing of the long hose should be slick and simple, they could be in a restriction for example, or in zero viz or any other difficult situation where having to mess around with Gods biggest reel to donate to your struggling buddy could compromise his/her safety... it just doesn't go with the whole DIR ethos Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete) Also it may have been for a short jump section before they began using the reel in the same way some DIR folks clip the reel to the stage nose bolt snap if they are only transporting it a short way before using. Mate, we're all aware that we configure and train for Murphy attacking at just the wrong time, a short jump isn't short enough to compromise or create a contradiction to our whole philosophy of being able to act immediately and without issue.. I've always been under the impression that nothing in Christendom is allowed to effect donating the long hose, you might say that just about every other part of our Hogarthian rig is configured around that fact... I'm simply asking for a reason (A convincing one hopefully) by those who know rather than you and I speculate or debate the why's and wherefores. Dave Last edited by Davey Willo; August 30th, 2006 at 10:51 PM.