Halcyon stealth wing

Hyper-Limits · February 4th, 2006, 05:21 AM

Check this out guys, pretty cool limited edition wing.

www.halcyon.net/mc/stealth/

NickB · February 4th, 2006, 08:03 PM

That is very cool

diver-repairs · February 5th, 2006, 09:54 AM

How do you dump efficiently with the dump valve on the front ie bottom surface when supine?

Brian

maccajim · February 5th, 2006, 10:51 AM

if u are serious u have a bit of research reading to do about dir

diver-repairs · February 5th, 2006, 12:09 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by maccajim)

if u are serious u have a bit of research reading to do about dir

Yes I'm serious, I'm on the first steps of the journey towards DIR and have a question. The only daft question is the one that doesn't get asked..

I refuse to accept a "given" as this leads to dogma: take for example the old chestnut about Ali cylinders with wet suits but if you had twin steels you HAD to have a dry suit....alot has changed since the US spec super heavyweight cylinders appeared: discuss that if you want.

My question is to do with the ability to dump air from a wing as the air will always rise to the highest poit in the wing: if you were head up at all, you could only use the top dump- no argument there ,I take it.
If you are horizontal the air is spread along the wing but in the top uppermost side: the dump is in the lower surface- below the water/air interface.

A upside down-bucket of air can only be emptied by tilting the lip above the water/air level, a dump valve must be above that level to work.
The same logic applies to emptying air from the feet of your dry suit, the air flows up hill.

I've asked a question and would like a reasoned response. I would like to know Why, with a capital "W".

I am an acholite on a journey towards the Right side.

BrianC

GoDiva · February 5th, 2006, 12:18 PM

if you are in an supine position in the water (which rarely happens), dou dump through the inflator. Otherwise you use the rear dump valve. If necessary you tilt your back side up (a little should do).
If it was on the "top side" you would not be able to reach (at least, only with great difficulty), or you would have to pull the corner where it was fixed down. This would result in it being lower than the rest anyway, and would be much more difficult to correct.

GLOC · February 5th, 2006, 12:32 PM

Brian, You will probably be surprised how easy the transition to dumping from the rear valve is. Fortunately for me it wasn't a steep unlearning curve as I only dived a BCD for about 20 dives before I moved onto a BP and wing and so dumping from the rear is what I am used to.

I can see your argument, but as the air collects in the wing, the valve is lifted up on the outside and is in the right position to dump air from when you are horizontal (which you should be). If you can't get the last bit of air out you might need to do a bit of a funky chicken (quote Rob D) to get it out but it doesn't take long before that becomes second-nature. I know that I am doing it but not what I am doing to make it happen.

Have a search for some videos on DIR and you will see what I mean. Dumping from the rear becomes second nature and from the inflator hose only when you require it ie lifting a diver when they are vertical.

I am sure much more experienced people will come along and provide allsorts of links....

HTH

diver-repairs · February 5th, 2006, 12:56 PM

Thanks Go & Gloc,

Not got an issue with "taking a dump" with the rear when horizontal: my initial beef is whether the dump valve should be on the upper or lower surface of the wing.

My wing has the rear dump on the back/top/rear and is positioned just to the left of my left hand cylinder...pull the string and it dumps as long as the string is pulled..no prob, no trapped wind, and no issues.Its having the dumpvalve on the lower surface that's in contention.

Cheers

BrianC

graham_hk · February 5th, 2006, 01:07 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by diver-repairs)

Yes I'm serious, I'm on the first steps of the journey towards DIR and have a question. The only daft question is the one that doesn't get asked..

Absolutely - however, sometimes it can get tiresome repeating the same thing over and over (may or maynot be the case here - you'll have to ask the poster)

Quote: (Originally Posted by diver-repairs)

I refuse to accept a "given" as this leads to dogma: take for example the old chestnut about Ali cylinders with wet suits but if you had twin steels you HAD to have a dry suit....alot has changed since the US spec super heavyweight cylinders appeared: discuss that if you want.

It is not a good idea to dive any steels in a wetsuit and why would you when Al80s are so well suited to the job?

Quote: (Originally Posted by diver-repairs)

My question is to do with the ability to dump air from a wing as the air will always rise to the highest poit in the wing: if you were head up at all, you could only use the top dump- no argument there ,I take it.
If you are horizontal the air is spread along the wing but in the top uppermost side: the dump is in the lower surface- below the water/air interface.
BrianC

Tip ever so slightly to put the dump at the highest point and the air comes rushing out :D Much easier to do than write - so you can answer your own question by trying it - very intuitive and will be a pleasant surprise for you

Best, Graham

Mark Chase · February 5th, 2006, 01:17 PM

The unbungeed wings they use wrap up around the tanks lifting the rear dump up the side of the twin set making it a high point and placing the dump on the outer face.

In the old style horse shoe wings there was no bladder across the bottom of the wing so it caused a few problems with air being trapped on the other side to the dump. The new donut wings overcome this problem.

ATB

Mark Chase

February 4th, 2006, 05:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
Hyper-Limits(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 16	Halcyon stealth wing Check this out guys, pretty cool limited edition wing. www.halcyon.net/mc/stealth/

February 4th, 2006, 08:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
NickB(Offline) Always lowering the tone Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 344	That is very cool __________________ SnowHeads / BreastFriends / Free Money!

February 5th, 2006, 09:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
diver-repairs(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 34	Bottom dump? How do you dump efficiently with the dump valve on the front ie bottom surface when supine? Brian

February 5th, 2006, 10:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
maccajim(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 97	dive repairs if u are serious u have a bit of research reading to do about dir

February 5th, 2006, 12:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
diver-repairs(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 34	Yes I am serious Quote: (Originally Posted by maccajim) if u are serious u have a bit of research reading to do about dir Yes I'm serious, I'm on the first steps of the journey towards DIR and have a question. The only daft question is the one that doesn't get asked.. I refuse to accept a "given" as this leads to dogma: take for example the old chestnut about Ali cylinders with wet suits but if you had twin steels you HAD to have a dry suit....alot has changed since the US spec super heavyweight cylinders appeared: discuss that if you want. My question is to do with the ability to dump air from a wing as the air will always rise to the highest poit in the wing: if you were head up at all, you could only use the top dump- no argument there ,I take it. If you are horizontal the air is spread along the wing but in the top uppermost side: the dump is in the lower surface- below the water/air interface. A upside down-bucket of air can only be emptied by tilting the lip above the water/air level, a dump valve must be above that level to work. The same logic applies to emptying air from the feet of your dry suit, the air flows up hill. I've asked a question and would like a reasoned response. I would like to know Why, with a capital "W". I am an acholite on a journey towards the Right side. BrianC

February 5th, 2006, 12:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
GoDiva(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 560	if you are in an supine position in the water (which rarely happens), dou dump through the inflator. Otherwise you use the rear dump valve. If necessary you tilt your back side up (a little should do). If it was on the "top side" you would not be able to reach (at least, only with great difficulty), or you would have to pull the corner where it was fixed down. This would result in it being lower than the rest anyway, and would be much more difficult to correct.

February 5th, 2006, 12:32 PM	#7 (permalink)
GLOC(Offline) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,994	Brian, You will probably be surprised how easy the transition to dumping from the rear valve is. Fortunately for me it wasn't a steep unlearning curve as I only dived a BCD for about 20 dives before I moved onto a BP and wing and so dumping from the rear is what I am used to. I can see your argument, but as the air collects in the wing, the valve is lifted up on the outside and is in the right position to dump air from when you are horizontal (which you should be). If you can't get the last bit of air out you might need to do a bit of a funky chicken (quote Rob D) to get it out but it doesn't take long before that becomes second-nature. I know that I am doing it but not what I am doing to make it happen. Have a search for some videos on DIR and you will see what I mean. Dumping from the rear becomes second nature and from the inflator hose only when you require it ie lifting a diver when they are vertical. I am sure much more experienced people will come along and provide allsorts of links.... HTH

February 5th, 2006, 12:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
diver-repairs(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 34	Having a dump from the rear Thanks Go & Gloc, Not got an issue with "taking a dump" with the rear when horizontal: my initial beef is whether the dump valve should be on the upper or lower surface of the wing. My wing has the rear dump on the back/top/rear and is positioned just to the left of my left hand cylinder...pull the string and it dumps as long as the string is pulled..no prob, no trapped wind, and no issues.Its having the dumpvalve on the lower surface that's in contention. Cheers BrianC

February 5th, 2006, 01:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
graham_hk(Offline) GUE instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: here, there and everywhere Posts: 780	Quote: (Originally Posted by diver-repairs) Yes I'm serious, I'm on the first steps of the journey towards DIR and have a question. The only daft question is the one that doesn't get asked.. Absolutely - however, sometimes it can get tiresome repeating the same thing over and over (may or maynot be the case here - you'll have to ask the poster) Quote: (Originally Posted by diver-repairs) I refuse to accept a "given" as this leads to dogma: take for example the old chestnut about Ali cylinders with wet suits but if you had twin steels you HAD to have a dry suit....alot has changed since the US spec super heavyweight cylinders appeared: discuss that if you want. It is not a good idea to dive any steels in a wetsuit and why would you when Al80s are so well suited to the job? Quote: (Originally Posted by diver-repairs) My question is to do with the ability to dump air from a wing as the air will always rise to the highest poit in the wing: if you were head up at all, you could only use the top dump- no argument there ,I take it. If you are horizontal the air is spread along the wing but in the top uppermost side: the dump is in the lower surface- below the water/air interface. BrianC Tip ever so slightly to put the dump at the highest point and the air comes rushing out :D Much easier to do than write - so you can answer your own question by trying it - very intuitive and will be a pleasant surprise for you Best, Graham

February 5th, 2006, 01:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mark Chase(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent England Posts: 905	The unbungeed wings they use wrap up around the tanks lifting the rear dump up the side of the twin set making it a high point and placing the dump on the outer face. In the old style horse shoe wings there was no bladder across the bottom of the wing so it caused a few problems with air being trapped on the other side to the dump. The new donut wings overcome this problem. ATB Mark Chase __________________ The only DIR Inspiration diver in the village