Baltic sea - wilhelm gustloff

vid · February 3rd, 2006, 01:23 PM

A question for those who regularly dive in the Baltic -

I understand that the Gustloff is designated as a war memorial. What does that mean? Is she off limits to all divers (non one is allowed to approach within a set distance), or can she be dived (so long as you don't penetrate the wreck)?

a big thanks

vid

reason for the interest, follows a presentation given last night in London

*Richard Lundgren* · February 3rd, 2006, 01:32 PM

The German government makes the Polish coast guard enforce a general dive prohibition. There are more huge wrecks out there in this area including famous ones like Steuben and Goya. Spectacular dives but limited access.

Take care,
Richard Lundgren

vid · February 3rd, 2006, 02:49 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Richard Lundgren)

The German government makes the Polish coast guard enforce a general dive prohibition. There are more huge wrecks out there in this area including famous ones like Steuben and Goya. Spectacular dives but limited access.

Take care,
Richard Lundgren

Richard - many thanks
I'd seen the reference to the Goya too elsewhere

If access is limited, is this done on the basis of permits only from the respective Governments?

vid

Marcin Kaluza · February 3rd, 2006, 02:53 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by vid)

Richard - many thanks
I'd seen the reference to the Goya too elsewhere

If access is limited, is this done on the basis of permits only from the respective Governments?

Steuben, Goya and Gustloff are not accessible for general diving public. There's plenty more there however and the vis is brilliant

Regards

*Richard Lundgren* · February 3rd, 2006, 03:03 PM

Let me know if you wanna set up an expedition to Von Steuben and/or Gustlow. I cant help individual divers but Im in a position to be able to help a group of ten dedicated divers. Drop me a note if you are dedicated and can muster a bunch of experienced wreckies. Steuben is not the easiest wreck around to dive but its a rare gem. August is a good time to explore the Baltic.

Take care,
Richard Lundgren

vid · February 3rd, 2006, 03:27 PM

Richard
thanks - some of these wrecks first came to our attention when you spoke at last year's dive show, and I see you're talking at LIDS in April too
I'll send a separate PM

vid

Chrisch · February 3rd, 2006, 04:02 PM

Some friends of ours have done this wreck. I think you can get permits for groups. If you are interested I can find out more for you.

http://www.iantdexpeditions.com/wg/it/index.htm

http://www.iantdexpeditions.com/indexen.htm

Chris

Leszek · February 3rd, 2006, 04:42 PM

Unfortunately it's not so easy to get a permits.
Some time ago it was pretty easy to dive on Gustloff, it was forbiden but
goverment turned blind eye on it.
After we became a member of EU everythig has changed. Now it's definietly forbiden to dive on Steuben, Goya and Gustloff.

Beside this, two weeks ago sam other laws has changed. Till that time Polish Mritime Museum (www.cmm.pl) became a warden of underwater monuments.
So if you want to get permit you shoud talk with them, but if you are not
some kind of fundation it won't be easy to get one.

Best Regards
Leszek Legat

Marcin Kaluza · February 3rd, 2006, 06:04 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Leszek)

So if you want to get permit you shoud talk with them, but if you are not
some kind of fundation it won't be easy to get one.

I presume you can always jump on a speedboat in Sweden and hope that coastguard won't show up until you're done

This reminds me of an "expedition" to dive Gustloff organised for some very famous brits by a German "agent". They ended up in Hel which is a very looooong trip to Gustloff by anyone's standards

They also didn't have green card car insurance and ended up with their van impounded. To add insult to injury they slept in the biggest shithole imaginable having "luxurious" B&Bs a stone's throw away from their base. You may read my letter regarding this expedition in divernet.
Take my advice: if you want to go to Poland talk to locals. Or me as I'm going diving there in June

Best Regards

Mania · February 6th, 2006, 10:16 PM

Well
As far as I understand there were several reasons to limit or even prohibit diving on certain wrecks in Poland. One - fatal accidents that took place on Goya, second Germany attitude and third accession to the EU.
You can apply for a permission but it ain't easy and as Marcin wrote it's best to talk to locals (in fact there are two diving centers that are the best). Sometimes they do get the permission or dive together with Polish Maritime Museum.
Mania

February 3rd, 2006, 01:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
vid(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: london/surrey border, UK Posts: 353	Baltic sea - wilhelm gustloff A question for those who regularly dive in the Baltic - I understand that the Gustloff is designated as a war memorial. What does that mean? Is she off limits to all divers (non one is allowed to approach within a set distance), or can she be dived (so long as you don't penetrate the wreck)? a big thanks vid reason for the interest, follows a presentation given last night in London

February 3rd, 2006, 02:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
Marcin Kaluza(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK, Bracknell Posts: 30	Quote: (Originally Posted by vid) Richard - many thanks I'd seen the reference to the Goya too elsewhere If access is limited, is this done on the basis of permits only from the respective Governments? Steuben, Goya and Gustloff are not accessible for general diving public. There's plenty more there however and the vis is brilliant Regards __________________ Marcin HLPlanner - free VPM-B based decompression software

February 3rd, 2006, 03:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
vid(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: london/surrey border, UK Posts: 353	Richard thanks - some of these wrecks first came to our attention when you spoke at last year's dive show, and I see you're talking at LIDS in April too I'll send a separate PM vid Last edited by vid; February 3rd, 2006 at 05:07 PM.

February 3rd, 2006, 04:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
Chrisch(Offline) Hogarthian Heretic Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brighton Posts: 104	Some friends of ours have done this wreck. I think you can get permits for groups. If you are interested I can find out more for you. http://www.iantdexpeditions.com/wg/it/index.htm http://www.iantdexpeditions.com/indexen.htm Chris Last edited by Chrisch; February 3rd, 2006 at 04:04 PM.

February 3rd, 2006, 06:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
Marcin Kaluza(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK, Bracknell Posts: 30	Quote: (Originally Posted by Leszek) So if you want to get permit you shoud talk with them, but if you are not some kind of fundation it won't be easy to get one. I presume you can always jump on a speedboat in Sweden and hope that coastguard won't show up until you're done This reminds me of an "expedition" to dive Gustloff organised for some very famous brits by a German "agent". They ended up in Hel which is a very looooong trip to Gustloff by anyone's standards They also didn't have green card car insurance and ended up with their van impounded. To add insult to injury they slept in the biggest shithole imaginable having "luxurious" B&Bs a stone's throw away from their base. You may read my letter regarding this expedition in divernet. Take my advice: if you want to go to Poland talk to locals. Or me as I'm going diving there in June Best Regards __________________ Marcin HLPlanner - free VPM-B based decompression software

February 3rd, 2006, 01:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Richard Lundgren(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 112	The German government makes the Polish coast guard enforce a general dive prohibition. There are more huge wrecks out there in this area including famous ones like Steuben and Goya. Spectacular dives but limited access. Take care, Richard Lundgren

February 3rd, 2006, 02:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
vid(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: london/surrey border, UK Posts: 353	Quote: (Originally Posted by Richard Lundgren) The German government makes the Polish coast guard enforce a general dive prohibition. There are more huge wrecks out there in this area including famous ones like Steuben and Goya. Spectacular dives but limited access. Take care, Richard Lundgren Richard - many thanks I'd seen the reference to the Goya too elsewhere If access is limited, is this done on the basis of permits only from the respective Governments? vid

February 3rd, 2006, 03:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
Richard Lundgren(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 112	Let me know if you wanna set up an expedition to Von Steuben and/or Gustlow. I cant help individual divers but Im in a position to be able to help a group of ten dedicated divers. Drop me a note if you are dedicated and can muster a bunch of experienced wreckies. Steuben is not the easiest wreck around to dive but its a rare gem. August is a good time to explore the Baltic. Take care, Richard Lundgren

February 3rd, 2006, 04:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
Leszek(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Gdansk, Poland Posts: 41	Unfortunately it's not so easy to get a permits. Some time ago it was pretty easy to dive on Gustloff, it was forbiden but goverment turned blind eye on it. After we became a member of EU everythig has changed. Now it's definietly forbiden to dive on Steuben, Goya and Gustloff. Beside this, two weeks ago sam other laws has changed. Till that time Polish Mritime Museum (www.cmm.pl) became a warden of underwater monuments. So if you want to get permit you shoud talk with them, but if you are not some kind of fundation it won't be easy to get one. Best Regards Leszek Legat

February 6th, 2006, 10:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mania(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Warsaw, Poland Posts: 34	Well As far as I understand there were several reasons to limit or even prohibit diving on certain wrecks in Poland. One - fatal accidents that took place on Goya, second Germany attitude and third accession to the EU. You can apply for a permission but it ain't easy and as Marcin wrote it's best to talk to locals (in fact there are two diving centers that are the best). Sometimes they do get the permission or dive together with Polish Maritime Museum. Mania