The future of cave diving in the Lot

Harald Franzen · January 20th, 2008, 05:33 PM

List,

Last week, I was in the Lot and had a conversation with mr. Michel Quèbre. He is the Mayor of Saint Géry (close to Cahors in the Lot valley), Chairman of the Communauté de Communes Lot-Célé (a collaboration between 22 municipalities) and Conseilleur (Counselman) of the Conseil du Lot (more or less the regional government).

He let slip that the Lot has been pressed into investigating sites for the extraction of drinking water by the French (governmental) water company.

Currently, they have four sites in view to extract drinking water (one of which is the Ressel; I did not explore with him the other sites). The goal is to "industrialise" the extraction of drinking water, as today it is more of an amateuristic approach.

edit: I know the lands around the Ressel have been bought by the Départment, and I was told (but was unable to verify) that Saint Sauveur has also been bought by the Départment.

However, he also spoke of "sécurisé" ("safeguarding") the sites, which I translate into: "closing off dive sites".

I cannot predict what the end effect will be, and I can only hope our French colleagues are in close contact with the local government, but it sounds to me we'll have some battles to fight to ensure our diving in the Lot.

If anyone has any smart ideas how we can change the politician's view on the dive sites (vs.: drinking water reserves), I kindly invite you to share them with us.

Also, I don't know if we have more French cave divers on this site or others that live in the Lot and regularly read the local papers so we may obtain some more information !

Thanks all !

Best,

Harald

Adrian Kelland · January 20th, 2008, 10:04 PM

Harald,

There is no reason, apart from legal, why you should not be able to continue to dive in water that has been identified for drinking water, there is diving in several UK reservoirs. IIRC, all water that goes into piped supply has to be chemically treated. Bottled water is subject to different rules.

However the amount of water that is used could have a big effect. Water levels could drop a lot depending on the original sources and rainfall. I'm sure this would have to be taken into account prior to any abstraction. Aquifers can be quite complex as I'm sure some of the WKPP research could confirm. It could be that the amount of water in the cave systems is small compared to the amount required and to remove it might have a bigger environmental impact than the recreation impact to a few divers.

Potential damage to the environment is probably you best means to prevent water abstraction and prevention of diving in the Lot.

Unfortunately if water abstraction is allowed nearly, local aquifer geology might mean that water levels fall anyway.

Best of luck,

Adrian

lizardland · January 21st, 2008, 01:43 AM

Hi Adrian,

Quote: (Originally Posted by Adrian Kelland)

There is no reason, apart from legal, why you should not be able to continue to dive in water that has been identified for drinking water

from that I guess you haven't experienced the French land access system? For the authentic experience take a packet of sewing needles and a gas stove; heat needles until red hot, insert in eyeballs.

French utility companies have no hesitation in completely destroying important sites. The Fontaine l'Eveque is lost under a 70m deep reservoir, the Font Belle resurgence was filled in to build a pumping station before exploration was complete, a large number of springs have been gated or had civil engineering works which effectively closed them, numerous dry caves have been sliced through to build roads.

If they want to close sites then they will. The standards of practice that you might expect for a civil project in the UK are completely different to what you would expect in France. I had a project cancelled here because it was near a pond that might in the future at somepoint be an important habitat. Other parts of the world do not play by the same environmental rules.

Adrian Kelland · January 21st, 2008, 10:03 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

If they want to close sites then they will. The standards of practice that you might expect for a civil project in the UK are completely different to what you would expect in France. I had a project cancelled here because it was near a pond that might in the future at somepoint be an important habitat. Other parts of the world do not play by the same environmental rules.

Unfortunately the French have a different approach to enforcing/implementing the various Euro Directives. They don't bother.

***Bob Cooper*** · January 21st, 2008, 10:56 PM

There is a saying (maybe it's true?)....

"Britannia Rules the Waves............"

"The French Waive the rules...."

Bob

January 20th, 2008, 05:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
Harald Franzen(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 83	The future of cave diving in the Lot List, Last week, I was in the Lot and had a conversation with mr. Michel Quèbre. He is the Mayor of Saint Géry (close to Cahors in the Lot valley), Chairman of the Communauté de Communes Lot-Célé (a collaboration between 22 municipalities) and Conseilleur (Counselman) of the Conseil du Lot (more or less the regional government). He let slip that the Lot has been pressed into investigating sites for the extraction of drinking water by the French (governmental) water company. Currently, they have four sites in view to extract drinking water (one of which is the Ressel; I did not explore with him the other sites). The goal is to "industrialise" the extraction of drinking water, as today it is more of an amateuristic approach. edit: I know the lands around the Ressel have been bought by the Départment, and I was told (but was unable to verify) that Saint Sauveur has also been bought by the Départment. However, he also spoke of "sécurisé" ("safeguarding") the sites, which I translate into: "closing off dive sites". I cannot predict what the end effect will be, and I can only hope our French colleagues are in close contact with the local government, but it sounds to me we'll have some battles to fight to ensure our diving in the Lot. If anyone has any smart ideas how we can change the politician's view on the dive sites (vs.: drinking water reserves), I kindly invite you to share them with us. Also, I don't know if we have more French cave divers on this site or others that live in the Lot and regularly read the local papers so we may obtain some more information ! Thanks all ! Best, Harald __________________ "Get the cotton out of your ears and put it into your mouth" George Irvine --- http://www.lotcavediving.eu

January 20th, 2008, 10:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Adrian Kelland(Offline) Can't remember Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Exeter - Team of 1 Posts: 271	Harald, There is no reason, apart from legal, why you should not be able to continue to dive in water that has been identified for drinking water, there is diving in several UK reservoirs. IIRC, all water that goes into piped supply has to be chemically treated. Bottled water is subject to different rules. However the amount of water that is used could have a big effect. Water levels could drop a lot depending on the original sources and rainfall. I'm sure this would have to be taken into account prior to any abstraction. Aquifers can be quite complex as I'm sure some of the WKPP research could confirm. It could be that the amount of water in the cave systems is small compared to the amount required and to remove it might have a bigger environmental impact than the recreation impact to a few divers. Potential damage to the environment is probably you best means to prevent water abstraction and prevention of diving in the Lot. Unfortunately if water abstraction is allowed nearly, local aquifer geology might mean that water levels fall anyway. Best of luck, Adrian __________________ The Diving Encyclopaedia Exeter BSAC Royal National Lifeboat Institution UK Transplant Register

January 21st, 2008, 01:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
lizardland(Offline) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 595	Hi Adrian, Quote: (Originally Posted by Adrian Kelland) There is no reason, apart from legal, why you should not be able to continue to dive in water that has been identified for drinking water from that I guess you haven't experienced the French land access system? For the authentic experience take a packet of sewing needles and a gas stove; heat needles until red hot, insert in eyeballs. French utility companies have no hesitation in completely destroying important sites. The Fontaine l'Eveque is lost under a 70m deep reservoir, the Font Belle resurgence was filled in to build a pumping station before exploration was complete, a large number of springs have been gated or had civil engineering works which effectively closed them, numerous dry caves have been sliced through to build roads. If they want to close sites then they will. The standards of practice that you might expect for a civil project in the UK are completely different to what you would expect in France. I had a project cancelled here because it was near a pond that might in the future at somepoint be an important habitat. Other parts of the world do not play by the same environmental rules. __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f**ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554 Last edited by lizardland; January 21st, 2008 at 01:47 AM.*

January 21st, 2008, 10:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
Adrian Kelland(Offline) Can't remember Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Exeter - Team of 1 Posts: 271	Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) If they want to close sites then they will. The standards of practice that you might expect for a civil project in the UK are completely different to what you would expect in France. I had a project cancelled here because it was near a pond that might in the future at somepoint be an important habitat. Other parts of the world do not play by the same environmental rules. Unfortunately the French have a different approach to enforcing/implementing the various Euro Directives. They don't bother. __________________ The Diving Encyclopaedia Exeter BSAC Royal National Lifeboat Institution UK Transplant Register

January 21st, 2008, 10:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
*Bob Cooper*(Offline) Moderator - "Don't stop me now!" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: South East London, UK Posts: 684	There is a saying (maybe it's true?).... "Britannia Rules the Waves............" "The French Waive the rules...." Bob