Dead Russian 'tech' divers in Red Sea

badger · November 23rd, 2007, 10:47 AM

All,
Just an observation really. I saw this news article in the Underwater Times this morning
UnderwaterTimes | Russian Deep-sea Divers Missing In Egypt; 'Safety Rules Were Ignored'

Its a shame that type of event is both inevatable and avoidable.
Nuff said

Matt Gentile · November 23rd, 2007, 12:42 PM

Very sad, but as the article states.....

“Our divers ignore existing safety regulations, they don’t stick to them, often they themselves are to blame for what happens to them,”

That is if what really happened.....

Rob Dobson · November 23rd, 2007, 01:09 PM

The divers were planning a 90m dive on a single "Oxygen cylinder", I presume they mean just a single cylinder of BG (probably air) as opposed to a twin set and multiple stages including an O2 bottle...

If they didn't tell anyone what they were planning how do people know they were planning a 90m dive?

*bob sherwood* · November 23rd, 2007, 01:30 PM

Sadly, this is a common occurance in Egypt. Not many follow rules there and this will not end any time soon. There is a very slow shift in mentality there, but I doubt we will see the deaths slow anytime in the near future. Blue water, great viz and "deeper makes you better" mentality. Sad does not do it justice. For some reason the russians are leading the dead pool lately. We have a lot of work to do.

NickB · November 23rd, 2007, 01:31 PM

I'm not familiar with that website but it looks like a pile of shite.

badger · November 23rd, 2007, 03:12 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by bob sherwood)

Sadly, this is a common occurance in Egypt. Not many follow rules there and this will not end any time soon. There is a very slow shift in mentality there, but I doubt we will see the deaths slow anytime in the near future. Blue water, great viz and "deeper makes you better" mentality. Sad does not do it justice. For some reason the russians are leading the dead pool lately. We have a lot of work to do.

We had some interesting accounts from Faisal at RSE last week on just such a group. I'm sure if he reads this thread he may like to comment!

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · November 23rd, 2007, 04:09 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by bob sherwood)

Sadly, this is a common occurance in Egypt. Not many follow rules there ..... There is a very slow shift in mentality there....... We have a lot of work to do.

Hi Bob,

With respect.

The mental state of the Egyptian dive community is fine and in fact most everyone follows the rules and there is no more work that "we" could do to reduce the amount of acts of strokery that cause these accidents.

I remember back in the olden days, when we used to have these fun deep dives on a daily basis, slowly working ourselves deeper. The master of the dive was the one who woke up early enough to get the suit with the French Navy Tables printed on the sleeve

The act of doing deep dives using single cylinders is common practice amongst all communities new to the industry such as Russia and Poland.
It is for them now, as it was for us back then.

In a case like this one especially, Egypt, Egyptians and their mentality have totally nothing to do with it.
As stated in the report, "....they went on their own risk...... did not inform dive guides..."

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · November 23rd, 2007, 04:44 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by badger)

We had some interesting accounts from Faisal at RSE last week on just such a group. I'm sure if he reads this thread he may like to comment!

You have intruiged me. Please do tell!

badger · November 23rd, 2007, 06:22 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC)

You have intruiged me. Please do tell!

I dont want to start bashing specific groups of divers, but we did see an interesting video he has...I'm sure he can show and tell. It was kind of funny at the time to see, but in light of these fatalities it no longer seems so.

John B · November 23rd, 2007, 09:02 PM

I dont usually join in threads but this one got me!

I spend a fair bit of time in Dahab diving the Blue Hole and other deep sites. I am always amazed and dismayed by the attitude that these people have to deep diving. For them it seems to be a rite of passage, some kind of macho/amazon thing - a way to prove oneself.

Their typical approach to deco on a 60m+ dive amounts to no slate or bottom timers with complete reliance on one or two battered disfunctional VR3s. They usually skimp on TX or just use air as its probably a sign of weakness to use the ideal TX mix.

Its not the Egyptian Tech Divers approach to diving or the Red Sea sites that are the issue - Its the attitude that these folks have to diving that kills them.

November 23rd, 2007, 10:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
badger(Offline) A Baby Chimp Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brighton Posts: 124	Dead Russian 'tech' divers in Red Sea All, Just an observation really. I saw this news article in the Underwater Times this morning UnderwaterTimes \| Russian Deep-sea Divers Missing In Egypt; 'Safety Rules Were Ignored' Its a shame that type of event is both inevatable and avoidable. Nuff said __________________ "I may say that this is the greatest factor -- the way in which the expedition is equipped -- the way in which every difficulty is foreseen, and precautions taken for meeting or avoiding it. Victory awaits him who has everything in order -- luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck." --from The South Pole, by Roald Amundsen.

November 23rd, 2007, 01:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
Rob Dobson(Offline) Chillin' with the ninjas Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 536	The divers were planning a 90m dive on a single "Oxygen cylinder", I presume they mean just a single cylinder of BG (probably air) as opposed to a twin set and multiple stages including an O2 bottle... If they didn't tell anyone what they were planning how do people know they were planning a 90m dive? __________________ --------------------- DIR-RA www.deep-ideas.co.uk www.tecdivers.co.uk. www.unifiedteamdiving.com

November 23rd, 2007, 01:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
bob sherwood (Online) GUE Instructor Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: world wide Posts: 17	deaths Sadly, this is a common occurance in Egypt. Not many follow rules there and this will not end any time soon. There is a very slow shift in mentality there, but I doubt we will see the deaths slow anytime in the near future. Blue water, great viz and "deeper makes you better" mentality. Sad does not do it justice. For some reason the russians are leading the dead pool lately. We have a lot of work to do.

November 23rd, 2007, 01:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
NickB(Offline) Always lowering the tone Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 344	I'm not familiar with that website but it looks like a pile of shite. __________________ SnowHeads / BreastFriends / Free Money!

November 23rd, 2007, 03:12 PM	#6 (permalink)
badger(Offline) A Baby Chimp Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brighton Posts: 124	Quote: (Originally Posted by bob sherwood) Sadly, this is a common occurance in Egypt. Not many follow rules there and this will not end any time soon. There is a very slow shift in mentality there, but I doubt we will see the deaths slow anytime in the near future. Blue water, great viz and "deeper makes you better" mentality. Sad does not do it justice. For some reason the russians are leading the dead pool lately. We have a lot of work to do. We had some interesting accounts from Faisal at RSE last week on just such a group. I'm sure if he reads this thread he may like to comment! __________________ "I may say that this is the greatest factor -- the way in which the expedition is equipped -- the way in which every difficulty is foreseen, and precautions taken for meeting or avoiding it. Victory awaits him who has everything in order -- luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck." --from The South Pole, by Roald Amundsen.

November 23rd, 2007, 12:42 PM	#2 (permalink)
Matt Gentile(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Norwood Posts: 182	Very sad, but as the article states..... “Our divers ignore existing safety regulations, they don’t stick to them, often they themselves are to blame for what happens to them,” That is if what really happened.....

November 23rd, 2007, 04:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Quote: (Originally Posted by bob sherwood) Sadly, this is a common occurance in Egypt. Not many follow rules there ..... There is a very slow shift in mentality there....... We have a lot of work to do. Hi Bob, With respect. The mental state of the Egyptian dive community is fine and in fact most everyone follows the rules and there is no more work that "we" could do to reduce the amount of acts of strokery that cause these accidents. I remember back in the olden days, when we used to have these fun deep dives on a daily basis, slowly working ourselves deeper. The master of the dive was the one who woke up early enough to get the suit with the French Navy Tables printed on the sleeve The act of doing deep dives using single cylinders is common practice amongst all communities new to the industry such as Russia and Poland. It is for them now, as it was for us back then. In a case like this one especially, Egypt, Egyptians and their mentality have totally nothing to do with it. As stated in the report, "....they went on their own risk...... did not inform dive guides..." __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

November 23rd, 2007, 04:44 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Quote: (Originally Posted by badger) We had some interesting accounts from Faisal at RSE last week on just such a group. I'm sure if he reads this thread he may like to comment! You have intruiged me. Please do tell! __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

November 23rd, 2007, 06:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
badger(Offline) A Baby Chimp Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brighton Posts: 124	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC) You have intruiged me. Please do tell! I dont want to start bashing specific groups of divers, but we did see an interesting video he has...I'm sure he can show and tell. It was kind of funny at the time to see, but in light of these fatalities it no longer seems so. __________________ "I may say that this is the greatest factor -- the way in which the expedition is equipped -- the way in which every difficulty is foreseen, and precautions taken for meeting or avoiding it. Victory awaits him who has everything in order -- luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck." --from The South Pole, by Roald Amundsen.

November 23rd, 2007, 09:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
John B(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sussex, UK Posts: 26	What a Surprise... I dont usually join in threads but this one got me! I spend a fair bit of time in Dahab diving the Blue Hole and other deep sites. I am always amazed and dismayed by the attitude that these people have to deep diving. For them it seems to be a rite of passage, some kind of macho/amazon thing - a way to prove oneself. Their typical approach to deco on a 60m+ dive amounts to no slate or bottom timers with complete reliance on one or two battered disfunctional VR3s. They usually skimp on TX or just use air as its probably a sign of weakness to use the ideal TX mix. Its not the Egyptian Tech Divers approach to diving or the Red Sea sites that are the issue - Its the attitude that these folks have to diving that kills them. __________________ JB "Before you judge a man walk a mile in his shoes. Then when after due reflection you pass judgement, You're a mile away... and you've got his shoes!"