Article about Hogarthian diving

**Alastair** · November 22nd, 2005, 01:38 PM

Quite a good article well worth a read.

http://www.divingindepth.com/Desktop...ocumentID=3506

I've recently struggled with the perception of DIR by some people. I do wonder how many people will read it with a more open mind because it doesn't contain the word DIR. What does everyone else make of it?

Cheers
Al

fraser · November 22nd, 2005, 02:04 PM

I thought all the talk about minimalism followed by a pic of a diver with half a dozen unnecessary D rings was pretty funny anyway

Fraser.

**Alastair** · November 22nd, 2005, 02:32 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by fraser)

I thought all the talk about minimalism followed by a pic of a diver with half a dozen unnecessary D rings was pretty funny anyway

Fraser.

Lol - yeah it did look a little bit daft, but I thought the content was well written.

Tricky · November 24th, 2005, 02:20 PM

Dammit, I was going to post that link

ReikiMaster · November 24th, 2005, 03:30 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tricky)

Dammit, I was going to post that link

you'll probably find he stole it from your post on yd

Tricky · November 24th, 2005, 03:41 PM

The cheek

**Alastair** · November 24th, 2005, 05:49 PM

I'm afraid I actually spotted it on The Deco Stop!

Shocking behaviour.

JAG · November 28th, 2005, 10:39 AM

After have read the article, under the section Guiding tool/principles it states "Self-sufficiency – don't be dependent on your dive team to save you; they should be an additional asset, not a crutch"

Reading some of the posts that mention that backup equipment is a team responsibility rather than an individuals, ie, one backup smb per team, one backup mask per team, backup depth will be on a team mates wrist, if an item is needed one of the team will have it etc.. then that's not really being self sufficient is it?

We all know that in life, no matter what precautions are taken, sh!t happens sometimes. I suppose I'm looking for clarification on where the line is drawn between being self sufficient and relying on team mates in the "oh sh!t" moment hoping that the one with the backup item you need is available.

Cheers,

Ian

**Alastair** · November 28th, 2005, 10:50 AM

To me self sufficiency is about being able and equiped to do the dive. All members in the team should have the proficiency and gear to complete the dive and no-one is diving beyond their comfort level.

In the event of problems I can sort various issues out myself. E.g. if a post freeflows I can shut it down. However where the team element comes in is that I'll signal a team member and they can assist, re-tighten the first stage and turn the valve back on. Equally I'll take an SMB on a dive but if I have a fault with it I know the other two will each have one as well.

I know the team can assist, I'm not reliant on them to complete the dive however if I have issues then they are there to help me out.

I don't know if that helps clarify how I perceive it?

Cheers
Al

*Clare Gledhill* · November 28th, 2005, 11:06 AM

Ian - a good question.

My take on this is that we must be "self sufficient" in that every team member must be able to do everything - lead the dive, laying line, running deco, bagging up, etc. etc.

In our team, being weak at something means you will get asked to do it more - not less - to bring skills up to scratch.

This does not detract in any way from the concept of team diving - or team resources.

Rich Walker (UK GUE Instructor) gave a fantastic quote recently on this. He said, talking about gas management - but it is equally applicable to everything else:

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rich Walker)

You're right that you should plan to always be able to get out if the need arises.

To that end, I don't plan to have my buddy rescue me should I have a gas failure. However, I do plan to be able to bring my buddy back should he/she had a catastrophic gas failure.

The difference between the two approaches may appear academic, but they are in fact a world apart.

November 22nd, 2005, 01:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
Alastair(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 693	Article about Hogarthian diving Quite a good article well worth a read. http://www.divingindepth.com/Desktop...ocumentID=3506 I've recently struggled with the perception of DIR by some people. I do wonder how many people will read it with a more open mind because it doesn't contain the word DIR. What does everyone else make of it? Cheers Al __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3

November 22nd, 2005, 02:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
Alastair(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 693	Quote: (Originally Posted by fraser) I thought all the talk about minimalism followed by a pic of a diver with half a dozen unnecessary D rings was pretty funny anyway Fraser. Lol - yeah it did look a little bit daft, but I thought the content was well written. __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3

November 24th, 2005, 03:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
ReikiMaster(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK Posts: 123	Quote: (Originally Posted by Tricky) Dammit, I was going to post that link you'll probably find he stole it from your post on yd __________________ Steve

November 24th, 2005, 05:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
Alastair(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 693	I'm afraid I actually spotted it on The Deco Stop! Shocking behaviour. __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3

November 28th, 2005, 10:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
JAG(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Essex Posts: 130	A bit confused.. After have read the article, under the section Guiding tool/principles it states "Self-sufficiency – don't be dependent on your dive team to save you; they should be an additional asset, not a crutch" Reading some of the posts that mention that backup equipment is a team responsibility rather than an individuals, ie, one backup smb per team, one backup mask per team, backup depth will be on a team mates wrist, if an item is needed one of the team will have it etc.. then that's not really being self sufficient is it? We all know that in life, no matter what precautions are taken, sh!t happens sometimes. I suppose I'm looking for clarification on where the line is drawn between being self sufficient and relying on team mates in the "oh sh!t" moment hoping that the one with the backup item you need is available. Cheers, Ian __________________ -.. .. ...- . / ... .- ..-. . / ... .... .. .--. -- .- - . ... www.narknark.co.uk

November 22nd, 2005, 02:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
fraser(Offline) "I'm only late on your timescale" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 463	I thought all the talk about minimalism followed by a pic of a diver with half a dozen unnecessary D rings was pretty funny anyway Fraser.

November 24th, 2005, 02:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Tricky(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Reading, Berkshire Posts: 555	Dammit, I was going to post that link

November 24th, 2005, 03:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tricky(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Reading, Berkshire Posts: 555	The cheek

November 28th, 2005, 10:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
Alastair(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 693	To me self sufficiency is about being able and equiped to do the dive. All members in the team should have the proficiency and gear to complete the dive and no-one is diving beyond their comfort level. In the event of problems I can sort various issues out myself. E.g. if a post freeflows I can shut it down. However where the team element comes in is that I'll signal a team member and they can assist, re-tighten the first stage and turn the valve back on. Equally I'll take an SMB on a dive but if I have a fault with it I know the other two will each have one as well. I know the team can assist, I'm not reliant on them to complete the dive however if I have issues then they are there to help me out. I don't know if that helps clarify how I perceive it? Cheers Al __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3

November 28th, 2005, 11:06 AM	#10 (permalink)
Clare Gledhill(Offline) GUE Instructor Site Admin Pacman Champion! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,547	Ian - a good question. My take on this is that we must be "self sufficient" in that every team member must be able to do everything - lead the dive, laying line, running deco, bagging up, etc. etc. In our team, being weak at something means you will get asked to do it more - not less - to bring skills up to scratch. This does not detract in any way from the concept of team diving - or team resources. Rich Walker (UK GUE Instructor) gave a fantastic quote recently on this. He said, talking about gas management - but it is equally applicable to everything else: Quote: (Originally Posted by Rich Walker) You're right that you should plan to always be able to get out if the need arises. To that end, I don't plan to have my buddy rescue me should I have a gas failure. However, I do plan to be able to bring my buddy back should he/she had a catastrophic gas failure. The difference between the two approaches may appear academic, but they are in fact a world apart. __________________ Clare . "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions....Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great." Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk