failure of both first stages,flooded drysuit,no hose on bcd senario!

Paul Mc Nulty · January 22nd, 2007, 09:49 PM

You'd want to really not take care of your gear for it to happen but what would you do in the worst case senario

how much ditchable weight should we retain?
If you are using a non compressible drysuit,of course,with thinsulate type boot material Imagine your hose comes off your bcd and at the same time you flood your drysuit!!what do you do?

you have air left,so you can use an alternative lift device.

What do you do in an out of air emergency when your bcd hose has fallen off and your drysuit is flooded at the same time.
your weighting is adjusted to sink your suit,you lose the air in your suit.You are now negative,I can guess its the weight needed to sink it 20-30lb (400g).say for worst case senario you are diving twin set steel tanks and at the start of the dive both first stages fail,and you are not carrying an argon or stage/deco.with no drysuit or bcd you are now 20-30lb+the weight of the gas negative.Do you swim to your buddy for air and use the buddys bcd for both divers.
How negative will a trilaminate drysuit with a 400g b undersuit become,how much ditchable weight should we have to help us to swim to a buddy if the worst comes to the worst,with no bcd,tanks full and flooded drysuit
Is the safest setup to have an alternative inflation for an alternative as well
.so maybe an argon inflation system is the way to go plus an alternative lift device like the halcyon life raft or a lift bag etc...?
chances of buoyancy problems are very low...yes?

MarkT · January 22nd, 2007, 10:17 PM

I think you only missed off spotting the elusive UK Great White just as you knock off your mask ...

I think you may be over estimating the degree to which you'll be negative as it is only the water volume you were displacing with the air in your suit not the entire weight needed to sink in the first place and as we should be only putting enough there to offset the squeeze it shouldn't be extreme.

Choice of undersuit material makes a difference but if we've all followed GI3 then we have nothing to worry about on that score.

What do I know though, just thinking from first principles not experience.

tim · January 22nd, 2007, 10:49 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Paul Mc Nulty)

Time to visit the LU lost property office and pick up a bargain set of golf clubs. Possibly stick a bit of money on the lottery too as the positive karma backlash must be immense.

It's interesting to try and sink a 400g undersuit. I got mine to the point that it was about to develop advanced civilisations in the intelligent salt-based life that had appeared in the thinsulate many dive weekends earlier, hence washed it. Made the mistake of assuming I could put it in the bath and it would soak up water and sink; it didn't! Given I have pretty near no air in my suit I'd be curious to know how much buoyancy I'd lose from a flood but I don't think it'd be too much.

The only situation I can think of where I'd not either hit the bottom fairly soon, grab something, or otherwise be able to halt myself from plummeting too far would be drifting in the blue on the ascent, at which point I'd probably grab the spool and hang off it whilst waiting for my buddy to get off the phone to Nick Faldo booking my course of lessons.

Tim

ReikiMaster · January 22nd, 2007, 11:25 PM

Hate to point out the obvious but if you have had both 1st stages fail, it makes no difference if you have your bc/wing hose connected, and the most important thing is your next breath not your bouyancy.

if the reg in your mouth is not going to give any gas then your not in the best situation. Get on an alternate, and hang on to your buddy. they can compensate for your weight until the situation is calm enough for you to orally inflate your bcd (or did i miss the bit where you had holed that too?)

but would guess that a bit of finning up would expand the gas in your bc/wing to compensate for a flooded suit unless you are seriously flying on it rather than on your wing. (never tried it, so may add that to my list of things to try later tho)

if your above 21m, switch to your stage and oral inflate yourself,

Leigh u · January 22nd, 2007, 11:30 PM

Paul Mc Nulty · January 23rd, 2007, 12:47 AM

I would like to find out really how much buoyancy I'd lose.I'm going down to my local swiming cove and flood my suit while being suspended in a harness over the water connected to a big fish weighing scales to weigh myself,while everone looks on in horror as it goes all wrong.Or is there an easier way?

rjack · January 23rd, 2007, 01:20 AM

Why? Between not being able to breath and hypothermia, you got bigger problems. Time for golf now.

Richard

Paul Mc Nulty · January 23rd, 2007, 01:42 AM

good one.golf yup.....
Its defo dir to know how much ditchable weight you shall retain in case of a loss of buoyancy.I know for a fact that in an out of air emergency that you don'nt want to be struggling,because you've put all you weight on your v-weights,and your now using more of your last bit of air in your lungs finning up to stop your self sinking.Some people hate weight belts,So do I.I'd rather just have a balanced system without weightbelts.What I was saying is that i would like to know how much I would be negative if I had a suit flood.I my self would like to ditch a pocket or two on my halcyon pockets while I was swiming to my buddy keeping horizontal trim at a time when you need it the most.

michalisz · January 23rd, 2007, 08:46 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Paul Mc Nulty)

You'd want to really not take care of your gear for it to happen but what would you do in the worst case senario

how much ditchable weight should we retain?
If you are using a non compressible drysuit,of course,with thinsulate type boot material Imagine your hose comes off your bcd and at the same time you flood your drysuit!!what do you do?

you have air left,so you can use an alternative lift device.

What do you do in an out of air emergency when your bcd hose has fallen off and your drysuit is flooded at the same time.
your weighting is adjusted to sink your suit,you lose the air in your suit.You are now negative,I can guess its the weight needed to sink it 20-30lb (400g).say for worst case senario you are diving twin set steel tanks and at the start of the dive both first stages fail,and you are not carrying an argon or stage/deco.with no drysuit or bcd you are now 20-30lb+the weight of the gas negative.Do you swim to your buddy for air and use the buddys bcd for both divers.
How negative will a trilaminate drysuit with a 400g b undersuit become,how much ditchable weight should we have to help us to swim to a buddy if the worst comes to the worst,with no bcd,tanks full and flooded drysuit
Is the safest setup to have an alternative inflation for an alternative as well
.so maybe an argon inflation system is the way to go plus an alternative lift device like the halcyon life raft or a lift bag etc...?
chances of buoyancy problems are very low...yes?

IF ALL OF THESE HAPPENS AT THE SAME TIME I WILL RATHER DIE OR START WINDSURFING

Ali Fikree · January 23rd, 2007, 10:03 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Paul Mc Nulty)

You'd want to really not take care of your gear for it to happen but what would you do in the worst case senario

how much ditchable weight should we retain?
If you are using a non compressible drysuit,of course,with thinsulate type boot material Imagine your hose comes off your bcd and at the same time you flood your drysuit!!what do you do?

you have air left,so you can use an alternative lift device.

What do you do in an out of air emergency when your bcd hose has fallen off and your drysuit is flooded at the same time.
your weighting is adjusted to sink your suit,you lose the air in your suit.You are now negative,I can guess its the weight needed to sink it 20-30lb (400g).say for worst case senario you are diving twin set steel tanks and at the start of the dive both first stages fail,and you are not carrying an argon or stage/deco.with no drysuit or bcd you are now 20-30lb+the weight of the gas negative.Do you swim to your buddy for air and use the buddys bcd for both divers.
How negative will a trilaminate drysuit with a 400g b undersuit become,how much ditchable weight should we have to help us to swim to a buddy if the worst comes to the worst,with no bcd,tanks full and flooded drysuit
Is the safest setup to have an alternative inflation for an alternative as well
.so maybe an argon inflation system is the way to go plus an alternative lift device like the halcyon life raft or a lift bag etc...?
chances of buoyancy problems are very low...yes?

Work out the volume of your drysuit then figure out how much it would weigh flooded. Once you have done that weigh your undersuit and add the weight of the water in your drysuit.

Why dont you throw in a flooded canister light and flooded wing just to spice it up. Maybe your twinset valves explode and the valves let in water.

It would be a good time to start tennis lessons if I dont drown.

A

January 22nd, 2007, 09:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
Paul Mc Nulty(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ardmore,Co.Waterford,Ireland Posts: 46	failure of both first stages,flooded drysuit,no hose on bcd senario! You'd want to really not take care of your gear for it to happen but what would you do in the worst case senario how much ditchable weight should we retain? If you are using a non compressible drysuit,of course,with thinsulate type boot material Imagine your hose comes off your bcd and at the same time you flood your drysuit!!what do you do? you have air left,so you can use an alternative lift device. What do you do in an out of air emergency when your bcd hose has fallen off and your drysuit is flooded at the same time. your weighting is adjusted to sink your suit,you lose the air in your suit.You are now negative,I can guess its the weight needed to sink it 20-30lb (400g).say for worst case senario you are diving twin set steel tanks and at the start of the dive both first stages fail,and you are not carrying an argon or stage/deco.with no drysuit or bcd you are now 20-30lb+the weight of the gas negative.Do you swim to your buddy for air and use the buddys bcd for both divers. How negative will a trilaminate drysuit with a 400g b undersuit become,how much ditchable weight should we have to help us to swim to a buddy if the worst comes to the worst,with no bcd,tanks full and flooded drysuit Is the safest setup to have an alternative inflation for an alternative as well .so maybe an argon inflation system is the way to go plus an alternative lift device like the halcyon life raft or a lift bag etc...? chances of buoyancy problems are very low...yes?

January 22nd, 2007, 10:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
MarkT(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Aylesbury Posts: 233	I think you only missed off spotting the elusive UK Great White just as you knock off your mask ... I think you may be over estimating the degree to which you'll be negative as it is only the water volume you were displacing with the air in your suit not the entire weight needed to sink in the first place and as we should be only putting enough there to offset the squeeze it shouldn't be extreme. Choice of undersuit material makes a difference but if we've all followed GI3 then we have nothing to worry about on that score. What do I know though, just thinking from first principles not experience. Last edited by MarkT; January 22nd, 2007 at 11:02 PM.

January 22nd, 2007, 11:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
ReikiMaster(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK Posts: 123	Hate to point out the obvious but if you have had both 1st stages fail, it makes no difference if you have your bc/wing hose connected, and the most important thing is your next breath not your bouyancy. if the reg in your mouth is not going to give any gas then your not in the best situation. Get on an alternate, and hang on to your buddy. they can compensate for your weight until the situation is calm enough for you to orally inflate your bcd (or did i miss the bit where you had holed that too?) but would guess that a bit of finning up would expand the gas in your bc/wing to compensate for a flooded suit unless you are seriously flying on it rather than on your wing. (never tried it, so may add that to my list of things to try later tho) if your above 21m, switch to your stage and oral inflate yourself, __________________ Steve

January 22nd, 2007, 11:30 PM	#5 (permalink)
Leigh u(Offline) We Go Down Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ottawa Canada Posts: 227	__________________ http://youtube.com/wegodown

January 23rd, 2007, 12:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
Paul Mc Nulty(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ardmore,Co.Waterford,Ireland Posts: 46	test I would like to find out really how much buoyancy I'd lose.I'm going down to my local swiming cove and flood my suit while being suspended in a harness over the water connected to a big fish weighing scales to weigh myself,while everone looks on in horror as it goes all wrong.Or is there an easier way?

January 22nd, 2007, 10:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
tim(Offline) Big Grin Syndrome Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 455	Quote: (Originally Posted by Paul Mc Nulty) <lots of things happen> Time to visit the LU lost property office and pick up a bargain set of golf clubs. Possibly stick a bit of money on the lottery too as the positive karma backlash must be immense. It's interesting to try and sink a 400g undersuit. I got mine to the point that it was about to develop advanced civilisations in the intelligent salt-based life that had appeared in the thinsulate many dive weekends earlier, hence washed it. Made the mistake of assuming I could put it in the bath and it would soak up water and sink; it didn't! Given I have pretty near no air in my suit I'd be curious to know how much buoyancy I'd lose from a flood but I don't think it'd be too much. The only situation I can think of where I'd not either hit the bottom fairly soon, grab something, or otherwise be able to halt myself from plummeting too far would be drifting in the blue on the ascent, at which point I'd probably grab the spool and hang off it whilst waiting for my buddy to get off the phone to Nick Faldo booking my course of lessons. Tim

January 23rd, 2007, 01:20 AM	#7 (permalink)
rjack(Offline) wet behind the ears Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 863	Why? Between not being able to breath and hypothermia, you got bigger problems. Time for golf now. Richard

January 23rd, 2007, 01:42 AM	#8 (permalink)
Paul Mc Nulty(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ardmore,Co.Waterford,Ireland Posts: 46	good one.golf yup..... Its defo dir to know how much ditchable weight you shall retain in case of a loss of buoyancy.I know for a fact that in an out of air emergency that you don'nt want to be struggling,because you've put all you weight on your v-weights,and your now using more of your last bit of air in your lungs finning up to stop your self sinking.Some people hate weight belts,So do I.I'd rather just have a balanced system without weightbelts.What I was saying is that i would like to know how much I would be negative if I had a suit flood.I my self would like to ditch a pocket or two on my halcyon pockets while I was swiming to my buddy keeping horizontal trim at a time when you need it the most.

January 23rd, 2007, 08:46 AM	#9 (permalink)
michalisz(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: CYPRUS Posts: 13	Quote: (Originally Posted by Paul Mc Nulty) You'd want to really not take care of your gear for it to happen but what would you do in the worst case senario how much ditchable weight should we retain? If you are using a non compressible drysuit,of course,with thinsulate type boot material Imagine your hose comes off your bcd and at the same time you flood your drysuit!!what do you do? you have air left,so you can use an alternative lift device. What do you do in an out of air emergency when your bcd hose has fallen off and your drysuit is flooded at the same time. your weighting is adjusted to sink your suit,you lose the air in your suit.You are now negative,I can guess its the weight needed to sink it 20-30lb (400g).say for worst case senario you are diving twin set steel tanks and at the start of the dive both first stages fail,and you are not carrying an argon or stage/deco.with no drysuit or bcd you are now 20-30lb+the weight of the gas negative.Do you swim to your buddy for air and use the buddys bcd for both divers. How negative will a trilaminate drysuit with a 400g b undersuit become,how much ditchable weight should we have to help us to swim to a buddy if the worst comes to the worst,with no bcd,tanks full and flooded drysuit Is the safest setup to have an alternative inflation for an alternative as well .so maybe an argon inflation system is the way to go plus an alternative lift device like the halcyon life raft or a lift bag etc...? chances of buoyancy problems are very low...yes? IF ALL OF THESE HAPPENS AT THE SAME TIME I WILL RATHER DIE OR START WINDSURFING

January 23rd, 2007, 10:03 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ali Fikree(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dubai Posts: 465	Quote: (Originally Posted by Paul Mc Nulty) You'd want to really not take care of your gear for it to happen but what would you do in the worst case senario how much ditchable weight should we retain? If you are using a non compressible drysuit,of course,with thinsulate type boot material Imagine your hose comes off your bcd and at the same time you flood your drysuit!!what do you do? you have air left,so you can use an alternative lift device. What do you do in an out of air emergency when your bcd hose has fallen off and your drysuit is flooded at the same time. your weighting is adjusted to sink your suit,you lose the air in your suit.You are now negative,I can guess its the weight needed to sink it 20-30lb (400g).say for worst case senario you are diving twin set steel tanks and at the start of the dive both first stages fail,and you are not carrying an argon or stage/deco.with no drysuit or bcd you are now 20-30lb+the weight of the gas negative.Do you swim to your buddy for air and use the buddys bcd for both divers. How negative will a trilaminate drysuit with a 400g b undersuit become,how much ditchable weight should we have to help us to swim to a buddy if the worst comes to the worst,with no bcd,tanks full and flooded drysuit Is the safest setup to have an alternative inflation for an alternative as well .so maybe an argon inflation system is the way to go plus an alternative lift device like the halcyon life raft or a lift bag etc...? chances of buoyancy problems are very low...yes? Work out the volume of your drysuit then figure out how much it would weigh flooded. Once you have done that weigh your undersuit and add the weight of the water in your drysuit. Why dont you throw in a flooded canister light and flooded wing just to spice it up. Maybe your twinset valves explode and the valves let in water. It would be a good time to start tennis lessons if I dont drown. A