Light head position in a real shutdown....

Mal Bridgeman · January 22nd, 2007, 10:10 AM

The thread about which post to "go for" first has got me thinking.....

When shutting down the left post in a real "emergency/simulation" rather than a drill, should you move the light head to the right hand and signal deliberately, as in the drill.....or should you leave the light head in the left hand and signal wildly?

TIA
Mal

eris · January 22nd, 2007, 10:27 AM

Hi

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman)

When shutting down the left post in a real "emergency/simulation" rather than a drill, should you move the light head to the right hand and signal deliberately, as in the drill.....or should you leave the light head in the left hand and signal wildly?

How you are going to close the left post with light head in your left hand?

You train some drills to do them in emergency situation and have no need to think "what should I do next...". In "real situations" it's good to do exactly as you practised... unless the situation demands some modifications.

Cheers,
Anka

Mal Bridgeman · January 22nd, 2007, 10:36 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by eris)

How you are going to close the left post with light head in your left hand?

Hi Anka

Well that's what got me thinking.....in that thread they were proposing to shutoff the manifold and one of the posts at the same time. I couldn't visualise it but do recall in an earlier life trying to do a left post shutdown with the light head in my hand. It was very hard but not impossible. Not sure about the manifold isolator though....never tried that.

I guess I should have asked is it DIR to shutdown two valves at the same time ?

Mal

grazie42 · January 22nd, 2007, 10:39 AM

You could also ask if DIR requires a goodman handle or if an elastic one is allowed

wilbo · January 22nd, 2007, 10:54 AM

If I am doing this for real - I don't know. What I 'think'/hope I would do is

light head in right hand.
shutdown with left while flashing my team to make them aware.
(read as: getting closer to them - and dependant on how well I am shutting down/other issues etc - I will be going 'tactile' (fin tugging, nudging etc) if they are not paying attention)

Like I said - this is what I would hope happens.

eris · January 22nd, 2007, 11:28 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman)

.....in that thread they were proposing to shutoff the manifold and one of the posts at the same time.

You do that in TecRec (I think...

)

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman)

I couldn't visualise it but do recall in an earlier life trying to do a left post shutdown with the light head in my hand. It was very hard but not impossible. Not sure about the manifold isolator though....never tried that.

Not impossible, but why to do that for? If you're closing post with one hand and holding light in other, you maintain contact with your partner. And you know how beautiful visibilty you can get in our European exotic waters :]

Sterny · January 22nd, 2007, 12:20 PM

I may be missing something - please do fill me in if I am Mal - but what sort of failure would be best dealt with by shutting two valves (a post and the isolator) down at the same time? I see that you'd want to preserve as much gas as possible, but isn't part of the reason for doing one at a time that it allows you to identify where the problem is, and leave yourself with as much of your remaining gas available as possible? I'm just having difficulty visualising the problem->diagnosis->solution path here.

Plus, it doesn't seem to me that passing my light head to the right hand takes very long... why might you consider not doing it?

*JohnKendall* · January 22nd, 2007, 12:23 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman)

I guess I should have asked is it DIR to shutdown two valves at the same time ?

It's not what we teach

Basically we teach doing things in an order, so that you and your team can know what is going on, and know the starting point.

Just blindly closing valves in a panic won't help anyone, and closing the isolator first gives no additional information about the problem.

So if closing the left valve, do what you do in a valve drill: Pass the light, then do the shutdown.

HTH

John

January 22nd, 2007, 10:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mal Bridgeman(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 662	Light head position in a real shutdown.... The thread about which post to "go for" first has got me thinking..... When shutting down the left post in a real "emergency/simulation" rather than a drill, should you move the light head to the right hand and signal deliberately, as in the drill.....or should you leave the light head in the left hand and signal wildly? TIA Mal __________________ Opinions and beliefs are correct at the time of posting but are subject to change without any notice or obligation on the part of the author.

January 22nd, 2007, 10:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
Mal Bridgeman(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 662	Quote: (Originally Posted by eris) How you are going to close the left post with light head in your left hand? Hi Anka Well that's what got me thinking.....in that thread they were proposing to shutoff the manifold and one of the posts at the same time. I couldn't visualise it but do recall in an earlier life trying to do a left post shutdown with the light head in my hand. It was very hard but not impossible. Not sure about the manifold isolator though....never tried that. I guess I should have asked is it DIR to shutdown two valves at the same time ? Mal __________________ Opinions and beliefs are correct at the time of posting but are subject to change without any notice or obligation on the part of the author.

January 22nd, 2007, 10:39 AM	#4 (permalink)
grazie42(Offline) New Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 75	You could also ask if DIR requires a goodman handle or if an elastic one is allowed Last edited by grazie42; January 22nd, 2007 at 10:41 AM.

January 22nd, 2007, 10:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
wilbo(Offline) Chimp 4 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Swindon, UK Posts: 877	If I am doing this for real - I don't know. What I 'think'/hope I would do is light head in right hand. shutdown with left while flashing my team to make them aware. (read as: getting closer to them - and dependant on how well I am shutting down/other issues etc - I will be going 'tactile' (fin tugging, nudging etc) if they are not paying attention) Like I said - this is what I would hope happens. __________________ Cheers! Wilbo DIR explorers: DIR Yorkshire Divers: YorkshireDivers One of the Foxturd chimps

January 22nd, 2007, 11:28 AM	#6 (permalink)
eris(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hell Posts: 8	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman) .....in that thread they were proposing to shutoff the manifold and one of the posts at the same time. You do that in TecRec (I think... ) Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman) I couldn't visualise it but do recall in an earlier life trying to do a left post shutdown with the light head in my hand. It was very hard but not impossible. Not sure about the manifold isolator though....never tried that. Not impossible, but why to do that for? If you're closing post with one hand and holding light in other, you maintain contact with your partner. And you know how beautiful visibilty you can get in our European exotic waters :] Last edited by eris; January 22nd, 2007 at 11:31 AM.

January 22nd, 2007, 10:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
eris(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hell Posts: 8	Hi Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman) When shutting down the left post in a real "emergency/simulation" rather than a drill, should you move the light head to the right hand and signal deliberately, as in the drill.....or should you leave the light head in the left hand and signal wildly? How you are going to close the left post with light head in your left hand? You train some drills to do them in emergency situation and have no need to think "what should I do next...". In "real situations" it's good to do exactly as you practised... unless the situation demands some modifications. Cheers, Anka

January 22nd, 2007, 12:20 PM	#7 (permalink)
Sterny(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The limpid tropical lagoons of Ealing, West London Posts: 550	I may be missing something - please do fill me in if I am Mal - but what sort of failure would be best dealt with by shutting two valves (a post and the isolator) down at the same time? I see that you'd want to preserve as much gas as possible, but isn't part of the reason for doing one at a time that it allows you to identify where the problem is, and leave yourself with as much of your remaining gas available as possible? I'm just having difficulty visualising the problem->diagnosis->solution path here. Plus, it doesn't seem to me that passing my light head to the right hand takes very long... why might you consider not doing it? __________________ "I thought I had a great idea today, but it never really took off. In fact, it didn't even get on the runway. I guess you could say it exploded in the hangar." - Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes

January 22nd, 2007, 12:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,102	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman) I guess I should have asked is it DIR to shutdown two valves at the same time ? It's not what we teach Basically we teach doing things in an order, so that you and your team can know what is going on, and know the starting point. Just blindly closing valves in a panic won't help anyone, and closing the isolator first gives no additional information about the problem. So if closing the left valve, do what you do in a valve drill: Pass the light, then do the shutdown. HTH John __________________ John Kendall http://www.guetraining.com/ GUE Instruction, Santi and Halcyon Equipment NEW - Online Santi Shop