How do you prefer to learn?

[Mats Edenfeldt]

In the old days (early 90s mid 90s) and with almost all of the technical instructors her in Sweden the way to learn was to break down and build up. Give you hell and take your self-esteem and then build you up again. Do some quit extreme exercises without any real connection to anything more then to stress the hell out of you. Now days training looks a bit different and the old style is gone, well I hope so Now the training is more specific and every thing that you do actually have a purpose more then to scare the student. At least the classes I have attended.

But still we have some differences in training so what do you prefer. The softer style and more of a mentor that corrects you but does not put to much pressure on you. Let you do the mistakes and then talk about it. You live up to the standard, or almost and then you are trough.
Or one that rely gives you the challenge and expects perfection, and if you screw up during the dive ads to the task load with balanced and well though out little extras. And you have to live up to the standards and then some to get it.

I know what I prefer and that is more of the hard ass that wont take anything else then what it takes and then some to let you trough. So what about you. Give me an example of pure “non compromising” behaviour from you instructors.

[Howard Payne]

I think it would be fair to say that Andy Kerslake has a fairly "uncompomising" style of teaching having just done Tech 1 with him :D Very much the throw hell at you to knock you down, then plenty of calm, helpful feedback, move forward, same again etc. Very, very effective - learnt more in those four days than I would ever have imagined. Suits the man and his personality, wouldn't work for every type of student and that style of teaching really wouldn't work coming from a less authoritative figure. Its a sort of "you have to be there to understand it" type deal Exactly how I hoped GUE instruction would be - tough, fair (well his idea of fair anyway) and making you think and work your nuts off all the time. I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks forward to his return to teaching

Example of compromise? Erm? Him graciously allowing us to do it his way at all times :D

I hear you're about to come up against a rather uncompromising cave instructor yourself

[LCF]

Having done a surgical residency (which is the medical equivalent of technical scuba training, I think), I'm a great believer in the utility of stress as a way of both identifying weak points and consolidating learning. But stress is only useful if it is properly dosed. Beyond a point, a stressed person stops learning and may even stop thinking. When the end result is demoralization, nothing constructive has been accomplished.

I've worked with two GUE instructors (one of whom is now an ex-GUE instructor) and they've been quite similar in approach. Stress the diver to but not over (if avoidable) the breaking point. Then dispassionately debrief what happened and talk about how matters could have gone better. What is striking is how carefully both of them criticized the performance, and not the performer. One was definitely left with the feeling that the instructor expected that one COULD reach the standard, given enough time and practice. I think that's critical, if you are going to do that sort of "break and rebuild" training.

[lizardland]

Everyone is different, learning styles is huge area of discussion. Personality type and the way your brain is wired has a huge effect on how you learn skills. I can listen to someone drone on all day and it'll make no difference but show me and I'll do it straight away. Other people are the opposite, they need to learn sequentially. An instructor that labours doing things in sequence, numbers, facts, etc., loses me within minutes but that's because I'm visual dominant (my girlfriend does learning learning style assessments for a college so I get guinea-pigged a lot).

[Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC]

I think that technical dive training has to be much more difficult PER DIVE than regular recreational training of course. But also needs to just as more productive as well in terms of educational benifit to the student and not entertainment for the instructor

The best you can do actually is video of a team running a line, with multiple failures "occuring" using an air gun (and slapping too, of course).

Before, it used to be black mask this and black mask that, turning off valves by surprise and all that horrid stuff.

We can get the same results in terms of stress without touching the student and giving the student the time of his/her life with a great learning experiance, only possible after a professional video debrief.
This approach helps produce thinking divers with better perception of their true abilities as a team should something go wrong during a dive.
That is just my opinion, but a lot of people dive pretty well after getting their butts kicked old school style. I mean some of that stuff was just sadistic man.... I am sure I would not want to get served some of what I have dished out before changing my evil ways.

Also, you would be suprised how much break and rebuild happens in the class room. Instructors across all agencies actually will use all sorts of terms and phrases to slowly make students commit to a certain system.
Also and most commonly, is trying to show "ownership" of certain skills or bits of theory being exclusivley taught within only this agency.
So part of the break and rebuild is actually regular assimilation. Sounds bad, well it is

It all comes down to holistic concepts like the "run time plan" which is a total mind warp for most people once they start using it. Same with the VR3 for that matter, with it's nasty way of rearranging deep stops to manipulate buhlman calculations for shallow stops, creating a profile with a different outcome that gets people "hooked" on the VR3 and insecure in using other computers.

We as instructors know that we are dealing with beginners in comparison to ourselves in most cases. I personally choose to make this a benifit to the student.

[grazie42]

I prefer that training pushes me as far as I can go in the time allocated. I´m paying for instruction not certification right? At the end of the course tell me if I´m good enough to pass or not (if I don´t have a fair idea about which it is before you tell me, you´ve propably failed somewhere)

I also like to understand the context of the "parts of the whole" that I´m trying to learn so I´d rather do a lot over a short time than little over long time...

I have a hard time with "loud" people. If you think you have to raise your voice to get your point across I´ll assume you think I´m deaf, stupid or that what you are saying is. The same thing goes for "propaganda". If I´m in your class it´s because I want to be there, I´m convinced and have already comitted myself so just save the "info-mercial" for your prospective students. I don´t care if you were the first or last person to start using the wheel as long as I believe it´s the best wheel for me (and I wouldn´t be in your class if I thought otherwise)

The lessons I remember best are those learned from making misstakes and if I´m not allowed to make any or "ecouraged to question solutions", I´ll take less away from a class than if I can...If an instructor doesen´t aknowledge that "there are no absolutes", I´ll propably try to find a different instructor...

[tim]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Howard Payne)

Suits the man and his personality, wouldn't work for every type of student and that style of teaching really wouldn't work coming from a less authoritative figure.

Agreed, Howard. I liked the 'tough, honest, supportive' approach a lot too at and felt I got a lot from it. It is very necessary though to have an instructor who's both highly respected and highly trusted; I know from experience of other instructors that either the same technique coming from someone who I don't trust/respect or any element being removed (the support aspect, for example) turns it from a very useful lesson into a nightmare.

The other way I find works well for learning from someone I don't feel is much beyond my own level is open dialogue and experimentation, trying things and introducing ideas in a very open way.

Tim

[Mats Edenfeldt]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC)

Also, you would be suprised how much break and rebuild happens in the class room. Instructors across all agencies actually will use all sorts of terms and phrases to slowly make students commit to a certain system.
Also and most commonly, is trying to show "ownership" of certain skills or bits of theory being exclusivley taught within only this agency.
So part of the break and rebuild is actually regular assimilation. Sounds bad, well it is

I agree with you about the classroom, allot of the break down occurs there, and that is better then during training dives. For me personally allot of the real "aha" moments occurred in the classroom when calculating and talking about procedures and when you got it all explained to you. That you actually are f**ed when some things happen or when you cross over a certain line. And that this line is not that far away as you think.

My only experience as an instructor (NAUI) is with beginners and up to relatively experienced divers and I have found that with the right type of scare tactics you can achieve a great result, and that is just in the classroom. If they get it they will keep the lid on the cowboy exploration nerve they have.
I have educated divers in DIR rigs but single set up with long hose and everything and all the procedures can be crossed over to a beginner, also the thinking behind the rig and the procedures can be adapted to the new diver. And when they get the hang of it almost all can acceptably hover in a horizontal position and donate gas in the right way. And they know why they are doing it. Also do acceptable frog kicks and some full heliturns. And to this you have the "scare tactics" that you can use in the class room and then you have a very aware diver that have a quit good awareness of the risks involved.

I guess it is the same for technical instructors, I have only been hanging around on tech classes to learn more but it looks from what I have seen it looks like the same tactics can be used there to. An off course to video the students is an exceptional way to get them to understand what they are doing wrong, we have also successfully used mirrors in the pool for beginners to easier find there position.