DIR procedures - what do you regard as wrong?

fraser · January 17th, 2007, 11:13 AM

Hi all,

As per the title. Really directed at Michael Barnette following this post: Halcyon CCR 35 wing

Just curious really.

Fraser.

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · January 17th, 2007, 11:26 AM

Are you trying to pick a fight?

lizardland · January 17th, 2007, 12:50 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC)

Are you trying to pick a fight?

I hope so

**Howard Payne** · January 17th, 2007, 01:50 PM

Me too - we need a good fight - everyone's far too much in agreement on here - at most we get a gentle divergence of opinion

Dangerous Dan · January 17th, 2007, 01:53 PM

Without picking a fight,

I don't agree with diving a single cylinder without a bailout cylinder.

For this reason I wont do fundeis till im on doubles or I will do fundies on single cylinder but revert back to diving with a bailout after the course.

Dan

Mark Chase · January 17th, 2007, 02:23 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by fraser)

Hi all,

As per the title. Really directed at Michael Barnette following this post: Halcyon CCR 35 wing

Just curious really.

Fraser.

Nothing its a divine system sent down by god for the betterment of mankind. :D

Ohhhhhhhh weeeeeelllll alright then.

Total reliance on buddies for life critical redundancy is insane. Things can and will go wrong and separation is possible. I am aware of at least two DIR dives by qualified divers where this has occurred.

The practice of uncliping decompression stages and moving them on a rig in open deep water is unnecessarily dangerous.

The RB80 OOA drill /practice is a joke

Failure to carry adequate surface signaling devices or PLBs on a diving system that encourages free drift deco ( i say encourages as JJ doesn't mind coming up the shot if needs must) is also insane. 4 divers missing now for 9 days in Egypt. They surfaced together after a 40min dive put up an SMB and were never seen again. One swam for shore and lived to tell the story.

Clipping off the primary reg during drills using a clip tied on with cave line is dangerous. A reg should only ever be clipped off if it doesn't work anymore.
Cable ties would be better suited for mounting the clip as they can be snapped easily in an emergency but failure in normal use is rare (never happened to me)

DIR knives are useless on wreck dives and GUE do not appear to specify that back up cutting devices should be carried (which surprised me) Id love to see someone cut their way out of trawler netting with those little tooth picks. Knives should have lanyards or wrist loops to prevent loss.

Mounting all deco cylinders on the same side should include some form of touch identification for no viz loss of buddy situations.

There you go that will do for starters.

ATB

Mark Chase

**Howard Payne** · January 17th, 2007, 02:29 PM

Interesting view Dan.

I see diving singles as really a twinset split between two people

With a good attentive buddy for diving down to sensible depths with an appropriate minimum gas reserve - how is it not redundant and safe?
Once you're down to about 30m a sensible minimum gas reserve on a single 12 is, for me, somewhere around 90-100 bar - thats when the twinset comes into its own as a extra gas reserve in case you get a FUBAR moment: You just can't get a decent dive and still leave an appropraite reserve of gas.

I wouldn't hesitate to do fundies in a single cylinder rig and then convert to a technical pass at a later date once the twinset comes along. I think you'll find most of the UK Fundies Instructors will happily spend that extra time with you if you've already done a DIRF course with them, helping you with twinset skills at a later date

Ali Fikree · January 17th, 2007, 03:38 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dangerous Dan)

Without picking a fight,

I don't agree with diving a single cylinder without a bailout cylinder.

For this reason I wont do fundeis till im on doubles or I will do fundies on single cylinder but revert back to diving with a bailout after the course.

Dan

Why would you want to carry a bailout cylinder if you are using a single tank? You should not be doing anything dangerous with a single tank anyway.

What is the maximum depth you would go with a single tank? 40m? For how long? Would you need a bailout tank for a bimble at 10m?

Its like saying " I wont go rabbit hunting without a grenade launcher"

Ali

Ali Fikree · January 17th, 2007, 03:47 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by fraser)

Hi all,

As per the title. Really directed at Michael Barnette following this post: Halcyon CCR 35 wing

Just curious really.

Fraser.

Michael Barnette is a pretty good knowledgable guy, having corresponed with him in the past. He is part of a pretty good wreck diving team as well.

Fraser you might have already lost this one

Ali

fraser · January 17th, 2007, 03:55 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ali Fikree)

Michael Barnette is a pretty good knowledgable guy, having corresponed with him in the past. He is part of a pretty good wreck diving team as well.

I know, hence the question... will be interesting to get people's views regardless, hopefully it won't turn into a ruck

Cheers,

Fraser.

January 17th, 2007, 11:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
fraser(Offline) "I'm only late on your timescale" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 463	DIR procedures - what do you regard as wrong? Hi all, As per the title. Really directed at Michael Barnette following this post: Halcyon CCR 35 wing Just curious really. Fraser. __________________ Damn it feels good to be a gangsta

January 17th, 2007, 11:26 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Are you trying to pick a fight? __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

January 17th, 2007, 12:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
lizardland(Offline) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 591	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC) Are you trying to pick a fight? I hope so __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

January 17th, 2007, 01:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
Howard Payne(Offline) Never Knowingly Underfabu Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,198	Me too - we need a good fight - everyone's far too much in agreement on here - at most we get a gentle divergence of opinion __________________ The Foxturd Chimp

January 17th, 2007, 02:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mark Chase(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent England Posts: 905	Quote: (Originally Posted by fraser) Hi all, As per the title. Really directed at Michael Barnette following this post: Halcyon CCR 35 wing Just curious really. Fraser. Nothing its a divine system sent down by god for the betterment of mankind. :D Ohhhhhhhh weeeeeelllll alright then. Total reliance on buddies for life critical redundancy is insane. Things can and will go wrong and separation is possible. I am aware of at least two DIR dives by qualified divers where this has occurred. The practice of uncliping decompression stages and moving them on a rig in open deep water is unnecessarily dangerous. The RB80 OOA drill /practice is a joke Failure to carry adequate surface signaling devices or PLBs on a diving system that encourages free drift deco ( i say encourages as JJ doesn't mind coming up the shot if needs must) is also insane. 4 divers missing now for 9 days in Egypt. They surfaced together after a 40min dive put up an SMB and were never seen again. One swam for shore and lived to tell the story. Clipping off the primary reg during drills using a clip tied on with cave line is dangerous. A reg should only ever be clipped off if it doesn't work anymore. Cable ties would be better suited for mounting the clip as they can be snapped easily in an emergency but failure in normal use is rare (never happened to me) DIR knives are useless on wreck dives and GUE do not appear to specify that back up cutting devices should be carried (which surprised me) Id love to see someone cut their way out of trawler netting with those little tooth picks. Knives should have lanyards or wrist loops to prevent loss. Mounting all deco cylinders on the same side should include some form of touch identification for no viz loss of buddy situations. There you go that will do for starters. ATB Mark Chase __________________ The only DIR Inspiration diver in the village

January 17th, 2007, 01:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
Dangerous Dan(Offline) New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Plymouth, UK and also West Yorkshire Posts: 35	Without picking a fight, I don't agree with diving a single cylinder without a bailout cylinder. For this reason I wont do fundeis till im on doubles or I will do fundies on single cylinder but revert back to diving with a bailout after the course. Dan

January 17th, 2007, 02:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Howard Payne(Offline) Never Knowingly Underfabu Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,198	Interesting view Dan. I see diving singles as really a twinset split between two people With a good attentive buddy for diving down to sensible depths with an appropriate minimum gas reserve - how is it not redundant and safe? Once you're down to about 30m a sensible minimum gas reserve on a single 12 is, for me, somewhere around 90-100 bar - thats when the twinset comes into its own as a extra gas reserve in case you get a FUBAR moment: You just can't get a decent dive and still leave an appropraite reserve of gas. I wouldn't hesitate to do fundies in a single cylinder rig and then convert to a technical pass at a later date once the twinset comes along. I think you'll find most of the UK Fundies Instructors will happily spend that extra time with you if you've already done a DIRF course with them, helping you with twinset skills at a later date __________________ The Foxturd Chimp

January 17th, 2007, 03:38 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ali Fikree (Online) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dubai Posts: 460	Quote: (Originally Posted by Dangerous Dan) Without picking a fight, I don't agree with diving a single cylinder without a bailout cylinder. For this reason I wont do fundeis till im on doubles or I will do fundies on single cylinder but revert back to diving with a bailout after the course. Dan Why would you want to carry a bailout cylinder if you are using a single tank? You should not be doing anything dangerous with a single tank anyway. What is the maximum depth you would go with a single tank? 40m? For how long? Would you need a bailout tank for a bimble at 10m? Its like saying " I wont go rabbit hunting without a grenade launcher" Ali

January 17th, 2007, 03:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ali Fikree (Online) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dubai Posts: 460	Quote: (Originally Posted by fraser) Hi all, As per the title. Really directed at Michael Barnette following this post: Halcyon CCR 35 wing Just curious really. Fraser. Michael Barnette is a pretty good knowledgable guy, having corresponed with him in the past. He is part of a pretty good wreck diving team as well. Fraser you might have already lost this one Ali

January 17th, 2007, 03:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
fraser(Offline) "I'm only late on your timescale" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 463	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ali Fikree) Michael Barnette is a pretty good knowledgable guy, having corresponed with him in the past. He is part of a pretty good wreck diving team as well. I know, hence the question... will be interesting to get people's views regardless, hopefully it won't turn into a ruck Cheers, Fraser. __________________ Damn it feels good to be a gangsta