BSAC introduces Nitrox Training on Ocean Diver and Sport Diver

Pete Young · January 11th, 2007, 10:05 PM

Just recieved the lecture notes for the new BSAC nitrox workshops to be
taught to Ocean Diver and Sport Diver grades. BSAC thinks this is quite a coup, personally I have my doubts about introducing it to Ocean Divers.

What do y'all think?

In the Nitrox Practises section: Avoid filling Emergency Cylinders with nitrox unless oxygen-cleaned. Please someone, make it stop.

Adrian Kelland · January 11th, 2007, 10:19 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pete Young)

Just recieved the lecture notes for the new BSAC nitrox workshops to be
taught to Ocean Diver and Sport Diver grades. BSAC thinks this is quite a coup, personally I have my doubts about introducing it to Ocean Divers.

What do y'all think?

In the Nitrox Practises section: Avoid filling Emergency Cylinders with nitrox unless oxygen-cleaned. Please someone, make it stop.

No point saying you have doubts then not expressing them. Come on, what are they?

Adrian

Chrisch · January 11th, 2007, 11:03 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pete Young)

...I have my doubts about introducing it to Ocean Divers.

What do y'all think?

...

I have mixed views. Firstly anything that brings BSAC into the 20th century is to be welcomed

Second I really do not see that a diver restricted to 20m is going to get the best out of nitrox and therefore feel it would be better as a part of the Sport Diver course, where it makes a great deal of sense and is a very good idea.

The recent introduction of trimix courses is more the issue. This makes the current BSAC Nitrox/Adv Nx and Extended range courses mis-placed. As they are under review I will wait and see before sounding off (a rare moment - savour it

)

I think one could make similar comments about the GUE tri-ox course if viewed in isolation. Seen as part of a continuum it makes sense. Maybe the BSAC changes will follow that path - lets hope so. We just need to crack the primary donation problem now

Chris

Ali Fikree · January 14th, 2007, 07:19 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pete Young)

Just recieved the lecture notes for the new BSAC nitrox workshops to be
taught to Ocean Diver and Sport Diver grades. BSAC thinks this is quite a coup, personally I have my doubts about introducing it to Ocean Divers.

What do y'all think?

In the Nitrox Practises section: Avoid filling Emergency Cylinders with nitrox unless oxygen-cleaned. Please someone, make it stop.

I had my doubts as well. They have not even mentioned Daltons diamond or any of the basic calculation formulas.

-A

Janos · January 14th, 2007, 11:50 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ali Fikree)

I had my doubts as well. They have not even mentioned Daltons diamond or any of the basic calculation formulas.

Shirley, that should be triangle

I think it's fine that it's a limited course. If you're qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer, then do you need complicated formulae?

For Sports Diver then the forumale and Dalton's Triangle are covered.

Personally I think it's a good thing. There are no downsides to Nitrox at Ocean Diver, and quite a few upsides, although I agree that the main benefit is to Sports Divers.

I'm due to teach a few of these workshops in the next month or two. I'll let you know how they go.

Janos

iainmsmith · January 14th, 2007, 05:25 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos)

I think it's fine that it's a limited course. If you're qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer, then do you need complicated formulae?

If you're "qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer" then why not just dive air?

I admit that I haven't read the course notes in detail, but I fail to see any real point in diving nitrox as if it were air within Ocean Diver limits. Given that these are single-tank, inexperienced divers, whose bottom times are likely to be limited by the gas they can carry (and the rate that they breath) rather than their NDL, then what's the benefit?

[Can we have an emoticon for "Takes Cover", please?]

Iain

Dangerous Dan · January 14th, 2007, 06:30 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by iainmsmith)

If you're "qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer" then why not just dive air?

I admit that I haven't read the course notes in detail, but I fail to see any real point in diving nitrox as if it were air within Ocean Diver limits. Given that these are single-tank, inexperienced divers, whose bottom times are likely to be limited by the gas they can carry (and the rate that they breath) rather than their NDL, then what's the benefit?

[Can we have an emoticon for "Takes Cover", please?]

Iain

Surely because Nitrox has a lot more beneftis than just reduced NDL.
And being an Ocean Diver doesn't necessarily mean you are inexperienced

Dan

Janos · January 14th, 2007, 07:09 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by iainmsmith)

If you're "qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer" then why not just dive air?

I admit that I haven't read the course notes in detail, but I fail to see any real point in diving nitrox as if it were air within Ocean Diver limits. Given that these are single-tank, inexperienced divers, whose bottom times are likely to be limited by the gas they can carry (and the rate that they breath) rather than their NDL, then what's the benefit?

[Can we have an emoticon for "Takes Cover", please?]

Iain

[Insert suitable quote from GI3 about air here]

If I'm diving to 6m, then I might dive air. [1] 20m I'd choose Nitrox.

I agree that Nitrox is not necessary to have a safe dive to 20m. However I believe it's preferable.

Come Sports Diver and we start to see the real advantage though. So why introduce it in Sports Diver? Well it does no harm to introduce it in Ocean, and it fits in with the nice progressive (as in taking many small steps) attitude of BSAC teaching.

Janos

[1] - Although these days I always seem to use 18/52 for everything.

tim · January 14th, 2007, 11:35 PM

I don't know if anyone else finds this, but I tend to notice diving air versus 32% after a weekend of even shallow diving, if I've been on air I feel tired but if I've been diving nitrox I tend to feel noticeably less tired. Random lots-of-helium mix I ended up with in some twins the other day seemed to have a similar effect. Whether this means I'm normally decompressing really badly on air I'm not sure...

Regardless, I appear to be scheduled to do one of these new nitrox workshop thingys with some ocean diver trainees in a few weeks and wait with interest to see how it goes!

Tim

Ali Fikree · January 15th, 2007, 09:32 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos)

Shirley, that should be triangle

I think it's fine that it's a limited course. If you're qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer, then do you need complicated formulae?

For Sports Diver then the forumale and Dalton's Triangle are covered.

Personally I think it's a good thing. There are no downsides to Nitrox at Ocean Diver, and quite a few upsides, although I agree that the main benefit is to Sports Divers.

I'm due to teach a few of these workshops in the next month or two. I'll let you know how they go.

Janos

Janos,
Why is it a complicated formula? I agree with you on the upside of inroducing it in OD/SD training.

All I am saying, a little extra detail in the courses might help would be beneficial.

Let me know how the courses run. I would be intrested in your feedback.

-Ali

January 11th, 2007, 10:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
Pete Young(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ipswich, UK Posts: 14	BSAC introduces Nitrox Training on Ocean Diver and Sport Diver Just recieved the lecture notes for the new BSAC nitrox workshops to be taught to Ocean Diver and Sport Diver grades. BSAC thinks this is quite a coup, personally I have my doubts about introducing it to Ocean Divers. What do y'all think? In the Nitrox Practises section: Avoid filling Emergency Cylinders with nitrox unless oxygen-cleaned. Please someone, make it stop.

January 11th, 2007, 10:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
Adrian Kelland(Offline) Can't remember Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Exeter - Team of 1 Posts: 271	Quote: (Originally Posted by Pete Young) Just recieved the lecture notes for the new BSAC nitrox workshops to be taught to Ocean Diver and Sport Diver grades. BSAC thinks this is quite a coup, personally I have my doubts about introducing it to Ocean Divers. What do y'all think? In the Nitrox Practises section: Avoid filling Emergency Cylinders with nitrox unless oxygen-cleaned. Please someone, make it stop. No point saying you have doubts then not expressing them. Come on, what are they? Adrian __________________ The Diving Encyclopaedia Exeter BSAC Royal National Lifeboat Institution UK Transplant Register

January 14th, 2007, 11:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
Janos(Offline) "Two Sheds" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Surrey Posts: 400	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ali Fikree) I had my doubts as well. They have not even mentioned Daltons diamond or any of the basic calculation formulas. Shirley, that should be triangle I think it's fine that it's a limited course. If you're qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer, then do you need complicated formulae? For Sports Diver then the forumale and Dalton's Triangle are covered. Personally I think it's a good thing. There are no downsides to Nitrox at Ocean Diver, and quite a few upsides, although I agree that the main benefit is to Sports Divers. I'm due to teach a few of these workshops in the next month or two. I'll let you know how they go. Janos __________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves www.hellfins.com/shed

January 14th, 2007, 07:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
Janos(Offline) "Two Sheds" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Surrey Posts: 400	Quote: (Originally Posted by iainmsmith) If you're "qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer" then why not just dive air? I admit that I haven't read the course notes in detail, but I fail to see any real point in diving nitrox as if it were air within Ocean Diver limits. Given that these are single-tank, inexperienced divers, whose bottom times are likely to be limited by the gas they can carry (and the rate that they breath) rather than their NDL, then what's the benefit? [Can we have an emoticon for "Takes Cover", please?] Iain [Insert suitable quote from GI3 about air here] If I'm diving to 6m, then I might dive air. [1] 20m I'd choose Nitrox. I agree that Nitrox is not necessary to have a safe dive to 20m. However I believe it's preferable. Come Sports Diver and we start to see the real advantage though. So why introduce it in Sports Diver? Well it does no harm to introduce it in Ocean, and it fits in with the nice progressive (as in taking many small steps) attitude of BSAC teaching. Janos [1] - Although these days I always seem to use 18/52 for everything. __________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves www.hellfins.com/shed

January 11th, 2007, 11:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
Chrisch(Offline) Hogarthian Heretic Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brighton Posts: 104	Quote: (Originally Posted by Pete Young) ...I have my doubts about introducing it to Ocean Divers. What do y'all think? ... I have mixed views. Firstly anything that brings BSAC into the 20th century is to be welcomed Second I really do not see that a diver restricted to 20m is going to get the best out of nitrox and therefore feel it would be better as a part of the Sport Diver course, where it makes a great deal of sense and is a very good idea. The recent introduction of trimix courses is more the issue. This makes the current BSAC Nitrox/Adv Nx and Extended range courses mis-placed. As they are under review I will wait and see before sounding off (a rare moment - savour it ) I think one could make similar comments about the GUE tri-ox course if viewed in isolation. Seen as part of a continuum it makes sense. Maybe the BSAC changes will follow that path - lets hope so. We just need to crack the primary donation problem now Chris

January 14th, 2007, 07:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ali Fikree(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dubai Posts: 465	Quote: (Originally Posted by Pete Young) Just recieved the lecture notes for the new BSAC nitrox workshops to be taught to Ocean Diver and Sport Diver grades. BSAC thinks this is quite a coup, personally I have my doubts about introducing it to Ocean Divers. What do y'all think? In the Nitrox Practises section: Avoid filling Emergency Cylinders with nitrox unless oxygen-cleaned. Please someone, make it stop. I had my doubts as well. They have not even mentioned Daltons diamond or any of the basic calculation formulas. -A

January 14th, 2007, 05:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
iainmsmith(Offline) Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Glasgow Posts: 153	Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos) I think it's fine that it's a limited course. If you're qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer, then do you need complicated formulae? If you're "qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer" then why not just dive air? I admit that I haven't read the course notes in detail, but I fail to see any real point in diving nitrox as if it were air within Ocean Diver limits. Given that these are single-tank, inexperienced divers, whose bottom times are likely to be limited by the gas they can carry (and the rate that they breath) rather than their NDL, then what's the benefit? [Can we have an emoticon for "Takes Cover", please?] Iain

January 14th, 2007, 06:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dangerous Dan(Offline) New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Plymouth, UK and also West Yorkshire Posts: 35	Quote: (Originally Posted by iainmsmith) If you're "qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer" then why not just dive air? I admit that I haven't read the course notes in detail, but I fail to see any real point in diving nitrox as if it were air within Ocean Diver limits. Given that these are single-tank, inexperienced divers, whose bottom times are likely to be limited by the gas they can carry (and the rate that they breath) rather than their NDL, then what's the benefit? [Can we have an emoticon for "Takes Cover", please?] Iain Surely because Nitrox has a lot more beneftis than just reduced NDL. And being an Ocean Diver doesn't necessarily mean you are inexperienced Dan

January 14th, 2007, 11:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
tim(Offline) Big Grin Syndrome Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 455	I don't know if anyone else finds this, but I tend to notice diving air versus 32% after a weekend of even shallow diving, if I've been on air I feel tired but if I've been diving nitrox I tend to feel noticeably less tired. Random lots-of-helium mix I ended up with in some twins the other day seemed to have a similar effect. Whether this means I'm normally decompressing really badly on air I'm not sure... Regardless, I appear to be scheduled to do one of these new nitrox workshop thingys with some ocean diver trainees in a few weeks and wait with interest to see how it goes! Tim

January 15th, 2007, 09:32 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ali Fikree(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dubai Posts: 465	Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos) Shirley, that should be triangle I think it's fine that it's a limited course. If you're qualified to dive Nitrox 32 and 36 to 20m max using air tables or an air computer, then do you need complicated formulae? For Sports Diver then the forumale and Dalton's Triangle are covered. Personally I think it's a good thing. There are no downsides to Nitrox at Ocean Diver, and quite a few upsides, although I agree that the main benefit is to Sports Divers. I'm due to teach a few of these workshops in the next month or two. I'll let you know how they go. Janos Janos, Why is it a complicated formula? I agree with you on the upside of inroducing it in OD/SD training. All I am saying, a little extra detail in the courses might help would be beneficial. Let me know how the courses run. I would be intrested in your feedback. -Ali