what a shame...

Loredana · January 8th, 2007, 03:40 PM

I feel almost alone now...
I apologize for my poor english as I'm writing from Italy but I'd really like to have a chat with people around the world about what has happened to me since I started diving DIR...
The first time i met DIR I fell in love with what I saw.
i saw some kind of perfection in and out of water.....
Then I approached the DIR philosophy step by step and then I had my fundamental course.I started diving with the same people every week and I realized how it was simple, and funny in that way.
I love this way of diving, really.....BUT
I realized that so many people around me are really what i just wouldn't like to be.I mean...I know so many bad examples around me...yes , good divers indeed but poor of spirit and heart.
They just think the are the best ( it may be right but the approach to other people is really disgusting..) they threat everybody in a bad way...especially if they are not DIR divers ( I mean.,..what do you care??you're not diving with them!!!leave them alone....and keep on diving like you know with people alike....just having fun..!!)
They think the are the best not only in diving but in total...that's something really irritating.and sometimes when I happen to hear what they say I really feel ashamed...I'm not like them...
Anyway...I do not know so many dir divers so it is difficult for me to find other people to dive with.
In may I will have my Tech1 course.It is really one of the things in my life I really care of...I want to enjoy and learn as much as possible....
but I felt disappointed and I really need to find that not all the people are like that.
I do not know if I reached the point with you but I am really disappointed.
One of the most important things in my life is going underwater, relax, having fun with friends....but now as I feel disappointed I really do not know if it is worth it...I'm not criticising the philosophy...i'm criticising people...I know they'are not all the same....but...

Martin Burnard · January 8th, 2007, 04:32 PM

Howard hit the nail on the head in another post.

He said we argue on the forum but really enjoy everybodies company when we dive together. He was right!!

Don't take the bickering on the internet to heart, it's only the internet.

Many things written on the internet would seem far less aggressive if it was banter on the boat.

Enjoy your diving, good luck with Tech 1.

***Fiona*** · January 8th, 2007, 05:21 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard)

Howard hit the nail on the head in another post.

He said we argue on the forum but really enjoy everybodies company when we dive together. He was right!!

Don't believe it, Howard is an ar*e

only joking love him really

***EBT*** · January 8th, 2007, 08:13 PM

Loredana,

Its a very western thing to compete, our cultures support it and its ingrained in people. Sometimes that gets exaggerated and people forget that the real reason we do this is for fun.

Use the skills and knowledge DIR gives you to enjoy your diving and smile at those who arent fortunate enough to figure that bit out yet, one day they'll get it

/Zak

tim · January 8th, 2007, 11:20 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Loredana)

One of the most important things in my life is going underwater, relax, having fun with friends....but now as I feel disappointed I really do not know if it is worth it...I'm not criticising the philosophy...i'm criticising people...I know they'are not all the same....but...

Hi Loredana,

I think you're absolutely right in that there is a very strong temptation for DIR divers to regard all other divers as somehow worse. Goodness knows it's a trap I've fallen into many times! It's so easy to get sold on the mantra that prone trim makes the perfect diver, or that anything other than DIR diving is unsafe. I suspect there's a niggling voice that justifies such views from the DIR point of view in that horizontal trim CAN make diving easier, and that an honest assessment of whether you're prepared for a dive CAN result in safer diving.

Two things I find help combat this for me: an honest look at my own opinions, assessing whether they're reasonable, only the view of a perfectionist, or plain incorrect, and keeping a broad social group with people diving in many ways and at many levels of commitment. I think the recent threads John started have had some extremely insightful views on both sides of this, and have certainly made me re-evaluate what I think.

Whether this is any help to you, I don't know. Do you have any good friends who dive, DIR or otherwise, who it would be FUN to have a shallow 6m afternoon dive with just for the sake of sharing a dive? If it's the kind of dive you'd take a complete newbie diving friend into, perhaps just swimming pool depths, purely to have fun and watch fish?

If you're needing to keep working on tech 1 skills, perhaps look for people who wouldn't mind you taking a little bit of time through the dive to work on skills and who could be primed to do things like indicating how trim and knees were looking, or who could throw OOA drills at you as complete surprises for you to respond to? I've certainly had a few 'eureka!' moments recently diving with complete novices who unconsciously emulate my diving and show glaringly obviously when I'm doing something wrong, almost better than a video camera. It adds to the fun when you have someone to laugh about it with later :-)

I do love meeting, diving, and socialising with other enthusiastic DIR divers (the group from the board here, I'm discovering, are in general GREAT fun, and very tolerant!) but I find it a fun change sometimes to dive with good friends who have no idea there's anything but 'going diving', don't care what kit I'm wearing, and are very conscientious buddies and dive safely within their limits. Where it's immensely rewarding for me is when they come back to me later having seen how I dive and say 'show me how to do that?' and I can pass on a little of what I've been taught. I've gained a great deal of pleasure from diving with their sense of fun and simplicity, they've found out about something fun and new.

If I'm missing the point of your post and approaching this from completely the wrong direction please do follow up with more thoughts.

Tim

Rubis · January 8th, 2007, 11:42 PM

Hi Loredana,

I sent you a PM. I am with you.

However in this sport it is like anything else, you have good people and you have some less good ones

.

I for one thing, I cannot have an attitude, my DB is far away and I have to dive with people that are not DIR. I have found out that the best way to have them come towards me, was being open and nice and explain why I do things like this and what I expect from them. Patience and being nice pays much more than acting arrogant. Frankly people that act arrogant is because they have an inferiority complex.
It's easier to make fun of people than to explain and educate. If people think they are DIR because they monkey George, they are pretty wrong.

Well, after two years being back to France, I must say I think I have helped in changing attitudes and even if none of my friends have taken a DIR-F yet (but it's more of a money issue - diving is almost free here, so people are not used to paying normal prices for training), they have changed quite a bit in their equipement configuration, diving procedures, gas choices and mental attitude.

The other thing too, is that technical diving is dominated by men and they have this urge to express their testosterone :D.
I am definetely looking for a female dive buddy, so if you happen to be not too far from Nice, give me a shout !

Cris

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · January 9th, 2007, 01:03 AM

Hey Loredana,

In the end, what brings us together is our love for the sea. The problem with us is the human side ;-)

**neilh** · January 9th, 2007, 09:07 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC)

In the end, what brings us together is our love for the sea. The problem with us is the human side ;-)

Nicely put Ahmed!

Loredana · January 9th, 2007, 09:28 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC)

Hey Loredana,

In the end, what brings us together is our love for the sea. The problem with us is the human side ;-)

Hi Ahmed!!It is always a pleasure for me to read you...as it was to meet you there in Hurghada!!
Thank you!!

Loredana · January 9th, 2007, 10:12 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by tim)

Hi Loredana,

I think you're absolutely right in that there is a very strong temptation for DIR divers to regard all other divers as somehow worse. Goodness knows it's a trap I've fallen into many times! It's so easy to get sold on the mantra that prone trim makes the perfect diver, or that anything other than DIR diving is unsafe. I suspect there's a niggling voice that justifies such views from the DIR point of view in that horizontal trim CAN make diving easier, and that an honest assessment of whether you're prepared for a dive CAN result in safer diving.

Two things I find help combat this for me: an honest look at my own opinions, assessing whether they're reasonable, only the view of a perfectionist, or plain incorrect, and keeping a broad social group with people diving in many ways and at many levels of commitment. I think the recent threads John started have had some extremely insightful views on both sides of this, and have certainly made me re-evaluate what I think.

Whether this is any help to you, I don't know. Do you have any good friends who dive, DIR or otherwise, who it would be FUN to have a shallow 6m afternoon dive with just for the sake of sharing a dive? If it's the kind of dive you'd take a complete newbie diving friend into, perhaps just swimming pool depths, purely to have fun and watch fish?

If you're needing to keep working on tech 1 skills, perhaps look for people who wouldn't mind you taking a little bit of time through the dive to work on skills and who could be primed to do things like indicating how trim and knees were looking, or who could throw OOA drills at you as complete surprises for you to respond to? I've certainly had a few 'eureka!' moments recently diving with complete novices who unconsciously emulate my diving and show glaringly obviously when I'm doing something wrong, almost better than a video camera. It adds to the fun when you have someone to laugh about it with later :-)

I do love meeting, diving, and socialising with other enthusiastic DIR divers (the group from the board here, I'm discovering, are in general GREAT fun, and very tolerant!) but I find it a fun change sometimes to dive with good friends who have no idea there's anything but 'going diving', don't care what kit I'm wearing, and are very conscientious buddies and dive safely within their limits. Where it's immensely rewarding for me is when they come back to me later having seen how I dive and say 'show me how to do that?' and I can pass on a little of what I've been taught. I've gained a great deal of pleasure from diving with their sense of fun and simplicity, they've found out about something fun and new.

If I'm missing the point of your post and approaching this from completely the wrong direction please do follow up with more thoughts.

Tim

Thank you Tim for your words, I appreciate it so much.The point is...The DIR community is really made of few people so it is so difficult to meet people alike...that is one of the reasons I feel quite alone now....because I'm not sure to keep on going diving with the same people as before as I do not like them....but if I stop doing it..then who will I dive with in my future?.....
I know not all the people are the same...now I'm looking for people withe the same aim as mine.-...people who do not forget the real reasons for going underwater...not to show off...but to enjoy and have fun in a safe way...I think that so many people forget about it ...concentrating only on trim and buoyancy and gear....
Anyway...I hope this moment will pass...I'd like to concentrate on my future course and exercize free of any kind of bad thought.....
Thank you all....
I really like this forum!

January 8th, 2007, 03:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
Loredana(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 52	what a shame... I feel almost alone now... I apologize for my poor english as I'm writing from Italy but I'd really like to have a chat with people around the world about what has happened to me since I started diving DIR... The first time i met DIR I fell in love with what I saw. i saw some kind of perfection in and out of water..... Then I approached the DIR philosophy step by step and then I had my fundamental course.I started diving with the same people every week and I realized how it was simple, and funny in that way. I love this way of diving, really.....BUT I realized that so many people around me are really what i just wouldn't like to be.I mean...I know so many bad examples around me...yes , good divers indeed but poor of spirit and heart. They just think the are the best ( it may be right but the approach to other people is really disgusting..) they threat everybody in a bad way...especially if they are not DIR divers ( I mean.,..what do you care??you're not diving with them!!!leave them alone....and keep on diving like you know with people alike....just having fun..!!) They think the are the best not only in diving but in total...that's something really irritating.and sometimes when I happen to hear what they say I really feel ashamed...I'm not like them... Anyway...I do not know so many dir divers so it is difficult for me to find other people to dive with. In may I will have my Tech1 course.It is really one of the things in my life I really care of...I want to enjoy and learn as much as possible.... but I felt disappointed and I really need to find that not all the people are like that. I do not know if I reached the point with you but I am really disappointed. One of the most important things in my life is going underwater, relax, having fun with friends....but now as I feel disappointed I really do not know if it is worth it...I'm not criticising the philosophy...i'm criticising people...I know they'are not all the same....but...

January 8th, 2007, 04:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Martin Burnard(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 580	Howard hit the nail on the head in another post. He said we argue on the forum but really enjoy everybodies company when we dive together. He was right!! Don't take the bickering on the internet to heart, it's only the internet. Many things written on the internet would seem far less aggressive if it was banter on the boat. Enjoy your diving, good luck with Tech 1. __________________ I once enjoyed a sado-masachistic frenzy of total tintintabulation leading to a state of metampsychosis... or did I make that up? www.bananafrogcars.co.uk

January 8th, 2007, 08:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
*EBT*(Offline) Just another crouton... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brighton Posts: 413	Loredana, Its a very western thing to compete, our cultures support it and its ingrained in people. Sometimes that gets exaggerated and people forget that the real reason we do this is for fun. Use the skills and knowledge DIR gives you to enjoy your diving and smile at those who arent fortunate enough to figure that bit out yet, one day they'll get it /Zak Last edited by EBT; January 8th, 2007 at 08:16 PM.

January 8th, 2007, 11:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
Rubis(Offline) cave deprived and Kissed Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Broadway, (lost in Central NC, USA far far way from Caves SIGH !!!) Posts: 275	Hi Loredana, I sent you a PM. I am with you. However in this sport it is like anything else, you have good people and you have some less good ones . I for one thing, I cannot have an attitude, my DB is far away and I have to dive with people that are not DIR. I have found out that the best way to have them come towards me, was being open and nice and explain why I do things like this and what I expect from them. Patience and being nice pays much more than acting arrogant. Frankly people that act arrogant is because they have an inferiority complex. It's easier to make fun of people than to explain and educate. If people think they are DIR because they monkey George, they are pretty wrong. Well, after two years being back to France, I must say I think I have helped in changing attitudes and even if none of my friends have taken a DIR-F yet (but it's more of a money issue - diving is almost free here, so people are not used to paying normal prices for training), they have changed quite a bit in their equipement configuration, diving procedures, gas choices and mental attitude. The other thing too, is that technical diving is dominated by men and they have this urge to express their testosterone :D. I am definetely looking for a female dive buddy, so if you happen to be not too far from Nice, give me a shout ! Cris __________________ Petition against M26

January 9th, 2007, 01:03 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Hey Loredana, In the end, what brings us together is our love for the sea. The problem with us is the human side ;-) __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

January 8th, 2007, 05:21 PM	#3 (permalink)
*Fiona* (Online) Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Up North Posts: 1,206	Quote: (Originally Posted by Martin Burnard) Howard hit the nail on the head in another post. He said we argue on the forum but really enjoy everybodies company when we dive together. He was right!! Don't believe it, Howard is an ar*e only joking love him really

January 8th, 2007, 11:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
tim(Offline) Big Grin Syndrome Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 455	Quote: (Originally Posted by Loredana) One of the most important things in my life is going underwater, relax, having fun with friends....but now as I feel disappointed I really do not know if it is worth it...I'm not criticising the philosophy...i'm criticising people...I know they'are not all the same....but... Hi Loredana, I think you're absolutely right in that there is a very strong temptation for DIR divers to regard all other divers as somehow worse. Goodness knows it's a trap I've fallen into many times! It's so easy to get sold on the mantra that prone trim makes the perfect diver, or that anything other than DIR diving is unsafe. I suspect there's a niggling voice that justifies such views from the DIR point of view in that horizontal trim CAN make diving easier, and that an honest assessment of whether you're prepared for a dive CAN result in safer diving. Two things I find help combat this for me: an honest look at my own opinions, assessing whether they're reasonable, only the view of a perfectionist, or plain incorrect, and keeping a broad social group with people diving in many ways and at many levels of commitment. I think the recent threads John started have had some extremely insightful views on both sides of this, and have certainly made me re-evaluate what I think. Whether this is any help to you, I don't know. Do you have any good friends who dive, DIR or otherwise, who it would be FUN to have a shallow 6m afternoon dive with just for the sake of sharing a dive? If it's the kind of dive you'd take a complete newbie diving friend into, perhaps just swimming pool depths, purely to have fun and watch fish? If you're needing to keep working on tech 1 skills, perhaps look for people who wouldn't mind you taking a little bit of time through the dive to work on skills and who could be primed to do things like indicating how trim and knees were looking, or who could throw OOA drills at you as complete surprises for you to respond to? I've certainly had a few 'eureka!' moments recently diving with complete novices who unconsciously emulate my diving and show glaringly obviously when I'm doing something wrong, almost better than a video camera. It adds to the fun when you have someone to laugh about it with later :-) I do love meeting, diving, and socialising with other enthusiastic DIR divers (the group from the board here, I'm discovering, are in general GREAT fun, and very tolerant!) but I find it a fun change sometimes to dive with good friends who have no idea there's anything but 'going diving', don't care what kit I'm wearing, and are very conscientious buddies and dive safely within their limits. Where it's immensely rewarding for me is when they come back to me later having seen how I dive and say 'show me how to do that?' and I can pass on a little of what I've been taught. I've gained a great deal of pleasure from diving with their sense of fun and simplicity, they've found out about something fun and new. If I'm missing the point of your post and approaching this from completely the wrong direction please do follow up with more thoughts. Tim

January 9th, 2007, 09:07 AM	#8 (permalink)
neilh(Offline) Haemoglobin on the bus... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Barnsley, UK Posts: 1,900	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC) In the end, what brings us together is our love for the sea. The problem with us is the human side ;-) Nicely put Ahmed!

January 9th, 2007, 09:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
Loredana(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 52	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC) Hey Loredana, In the end, what brings us together is our love for the sea. The problem with us is the human side ;-) Hi Ahmed!!It is always a pleasure for me to read you...as it was to meet you there in Hurghada!! Thank you!!

January 9th, 2007, 10:12 AM	#10 (permalink)
Loredana(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 52	Quote: (Originally Posted by tim) Hi Loredana, I think you're absolutely right in that there is a very strong temptation for DIR divers to regard all other divers as somehow worse. Goodness knows it's a trap I've fallen into many times! It's so easy to get sold on the mantra that prone trim makes the perfect diver, or that anything other than DIR diving is unsafe. I suspect there's a niggling voice that justifies such views from the DIR point of view in that horizontal trim CAN make diving easier, and that an honest assessment of whether you're prepared for a dive CAN result in safer diving. Two things I find help combat this for me: an honest look at my own opinions, assessing whether they're reasonable, only the view of a perfectionist, or plain incorrect, and keeping a broad social group with people diving in many ways and at many levels of commitment. I think the recent threads John started have had some extremely insightful views on both sides of this, and have certainly made me re-evaluate what I think. Whether this is any help to you, I don't know. Do you have any good friends who dive, DIR or otherwise, who it would be FUN to have a shallow 6m afternoon dive with just for the sake of sharing a dive? If it's the kind of dive you'd take a complete newbie diving friend into, perhaps just swimming pool depths, purely to have fun and watch fish? If you're needing to keep working on tech 1 skills, perhaps look for people who wouldn't mind you taking a little bit of time through the dive to work on skills and who could be primed to do things like indicating how trim and knees were looking, or who could throw OOA drills at you as complete surprises for you to respond to? I've certainly had a few 'eureka!' moments recently diving with complete novices who unconsciously emulate my diving and show glaringly obviously when I'm doing something wrong, almost better than a video camera. It adds to the fun when you have someone to laugh about it with later :-) I do love meeting, diving, and socialising with other enthusiastic DIR divers (the group from the board here, I'm discovering, are in general GREAT fun, and very tolerant!) but I find it a fun change sometimes to dive with good friends who have no idea there's anything but 'going diving', don't care what kit I'm wearing, and are very conscientious buddies and dive safely within their limits. Where it's immensely rewarding for me is when they come back to me later having seen how I dive and say 'show me how to do that?' and I can pass on a little of what I've been taught. I've gained a great deal of pleasure from diving with their sense of fun and simplicity, they've found out about something fun and new. If I'm missing the point of your post and approaching this from completely the wrong direction please do follow up with more thoughts. Tim Thank you Tim for your words, I appreciate it so much.The point is...The DIR community is really made of few people so it is so difficult to meet people alike...that is one of the reasons I feel quite alone now....because I'm not sure to keep on going diving with the same people as before as I do not like them....but if I stop doing it..then who will I dive with in my future?..... I know not all the people are the same...now I'm looking for people withe the same aim as mine.-...people who do not forget the real reasons for going underwater...not to show off...but to enjoy and have fun in a safe way...I think that so many people forget about it ...concentrating only on trim and buoyancy and gear.... Anyway...I hope this moment will pass...I'd like to concentrate on my future course and exercize free of any kind of bad thought..... Thank you all.... I really like this forum!