Trainee Soup

TobyFish · November 13th, 2006, 01:51 PM

Sunday 12/11/2006 - Stoney Cove

A sunny winters Sunday at Stoney... even if you weren't there, you know what it would have been like... trainee soup! Perhaps not the ideal place to practice scootering, but hey ho - someone was giving it a go.

Two short body Gavins swooped by. Cool! I thought. the kit and everything all looked very DIR. So I thought it was pretty good to see those scooters out there to give our PADI AOW students an idea of what they might aim for. "I wonder if these guys are on that friendly DIRx forum?"

I hope not. They wiped out two of our students. But if you are here, can I make a serious suggestion? If you want to scooter in poor vis at a site crowded with new divers, could you turn your primary torches on? Because if you're not going to have the skill or consideration to scoot safely, we'd like to see you coming so we can get out of your way.

Also - take this or leave it - Rule six says look cool - not miserable. If some trainee divers think you're the coolest thing they've ever seen and wave at you, you could be friendly. Even if you're not actively interested in promoting DIR, you could at least do something to stop propogating the "head so far up our arses we can see daylight" image that DIR sometimes suffers from.

BTW the two students are fine. The 'strokes' they were with managed to sort out your mess.

T

Lou · November 13th, 2006, 02:08 PM

Toby - nice rant. I have to say that I fear that a proliferation of scooters at some of the busier inland sites is slightly concerning for the reasons you touch on above. Without serious consideration to the risks, especially with lots of new idvers around it is a high risk activity. I wouldn't be suprised if actions like this end up with them being banned at weekends or similar.

There was a post on here last week saying two members were off to play with scooters at Stoney this weekend. Maybe a PM to one of them expressing your concersn would sort the issue out for the future?

Lou

jamesd · November 13th, 2006, 02:54 PM

Hi,

The prospect of having an underwater collision with a scooter on any dive, but in particular on dives where I am teaching (BSAC) students really worries me. I hope that your trainees were ok. Even if you have good spacial awareness it is pretty difficult to work out where scooters are coming from. Similarly difficult to working out where an ambulance siren is coming from when stuck in London traffic.

There is no need to use a scooter at places like stoney etc they are too full of divers. Similarly, I think that 'tourist' wrecks such as the Kyarra/Scylla can be too busy and again there is no need to take a scooter on these dives.

Although my buddies signed up for the scooter course on the DIRX weekend I decided not too as it just seems potentially dangerous and slightly rediculous.

Dive Safe
James

MJH · November 13th, 2006, 03:06 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jamesd)

Although my buddies signed up for the scooter course on the DIRX weekend I decided not too as it just seems potentially dangerous and slightly rediculous.

I have spoken to Margaret about bringing scooters to Stoney next weekend

She does not have an issue with it

As long as everyone uses a bit of common sense there should not be a problem.

and what would seem ridiculous to me is taking a scooter out in the sea without practising inland first

tim · November 13th, 2006, 03:22 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jamesd)

Although my buddies signed up for the scooter course on the DIRX weekend I decided not too as it just seems potentially dangerous and slightly rediculous.

I figure that under the collective watchful eyes and smurf hands of AK, Bob, and Clare, we're likely to be kept strictly in check! I'd hope that the back corner of Stoney would be fairly empty if nowhere else. Even on busy weekends I've had quite nice viz and open space over at the far side when the nearby 6m area has been heavingly busy and viz to zero. Even if scooters in a quarry looks a bit overkill I'm hoping it will be bucketloads of fun and an excuse to start my scooter fund :-)

Toby - glad to hear your guys were OK. I've had normal finning divers run through my teaching groups before now with pretty bad results so can only imagine what it must be like to be on the wrong end of scooters! Hopefully they weren't put off diving by the incident?

Tim

**neilh** · November 13th, 2006, 03:22 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jamesd)

There is no need to use a scooter at places like stoney etc they are too full of divers.

I'd have thought that Stoney was big enough to allow people to gain experience and practice of scooters safely. Generally the trainees are gathered in a few key areas of the quarry and you just need to slow it down and keep an eye out in those areas, surely.

With the help of a scooter you should easily be able to head out to the far corners of the quarry which are far less crowded cos it's a long way without a scooter.

I hope apologies were made regardless

TobyFish · November 13th, 2006, 03:40 PM

Let me be clear - I have no issue with people doing scooter practice in quarries.

I Just think that at a site where the scooter divers are likely to be among the most experienced divers in the pool, and given that they are the ones who are adding risk (however small) it behoves them to be cautious and courteous.

Andrew Bryson · November 13th, 2006, 08:19 PM

Toby

It was Phil Osbourne and I on the scooters on Sunday. I must say that I'm very shocked at your post as I've really no idea what we could have done to "wipe out" two of your students; at no time did I scooter through anybody, I like to exercise a bit more control than that. Regardless, it appears we caused some issue and for that I apologise.

Just to say though:

- at all points in the dives our lights were on.
- the two people that waved at me (seperate events), yeah, perhaps I should have waved back but my light was in my left hand so I nodded at them instead (eye contact). It would have been no issue to swap the light to the right hand, but perhaps next time.
- please don't use words like ******. Really, neither Phil or I are like that.

If you're at the forthcoming Stoney gig I'll be glad to discuss this with you. Perhaps we can go for a dive or whatever.

PM me if you wish.

Cheers
andy

Jecowling · November 13th, 2006, 08:47 PM

Andy,

Were you driving a short body Gavin or your SS? It might have been someone else!

Jen

Andrew Bryson · November 13th, 2006, 08:49 PM

That would be my SS. It's Phil who slums it on the Gavin

a

November 13th, 2006, 01:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
TobyFish(Offline) Fine Upstanding Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Telford, UK Posts: 795	Trainee Soup Sunday 12/11/2006 - Stoney Cove A sunny winters Sunday at Stoney... even if you weren't there, you know what it would have been like... trainee soup! Perhaps not the ideal place to practice scootering, but hey ho - someone was giving it a go. Two short body Gavins swooped by. Cool! I thought. the kit and everything all looked very DIR. So I thought it was pretty good to see those scooters out there to give our PADI AOW students an idea of what they might aim for. "I wonder if these guys are on that friendly DIRx forum?" I hope not. They wiped out two of our students. But if you are here, can I make a serious suggestion? If you want to scooter in poor vis at a site crowded with new divers, could you turn your primary torches on? Because if you're not going to have the skill or consideration to scoot safely, we'd like to see you coming so we can get out of your way. Also - take this or leave it - Rule six says look cool - not miserable. If some trainee divers think you're the coolest thing they've ever seen and wave at you, you could be friendly. Even if you're not actively interested in promoting DIR, you could at least do something to stop propogating the "head so far up our arses we can see daylight" image that DIR sometimes suffers from. BTW the two students are fine. The 'strokes' they were with managed to sort out your mess. T __________________ Rude-boy Volvo "Gangsta Rollin' in me nine-six-oh"

November 13th, 2006, 03:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
TobyFish(Offline) Fine Upstanding Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Telford, UK Posts: 795	Let me be clear - I have no issue with people doing scooter practice in quarries. I Just think that at a site where the scooter divers are likely to be among the most experienced divers in the pool, and given that they are the ones who are adding risk (however small) it behoves them to be cautious and courteous. __________________ Rude-boy Volvo "Gangsta Rollin' in me nine-six-oh"

November 13th, 2006, 02:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lou(Offline) New Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bucks Posts: 195	Toby - nice rant. I have to say that I fear that a proliferation of scooters at some of the busier inland sites is slightly concerning for the reasons you touch on above. Without serious consideration to the risks, especially with lots of new idvers around it is a high risk activity. I wouldn't be suprised if actions like this end up with them being banned at weekends or similar. There was a post on here last week saying two members were off to play with scooters at Stoney this weekend. Maybe a PM to one of them expressing your concersn would sort the issue out for the future? Lou

November 13th, 2006, 02:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
jamesd(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London Posts: 54	Hi, The prospect of having an underwater collision with a scooter on any dive, but in particular on dives where I am teaching (BSAC) students really worries me. I hope that your trainees were ok. Even if you have good spacial awareness it is pretty difficult to work out where scooters are coming from. Similarly difficult to working out where an ambulance siren is coming from when stuck in London traffic. There is no need to use a scooter at places like stoney etc they are too full of divers. Similarly, I think that 'tourist' wrecks such as the Kyarra/Scylla can be too busy and again there is no need to take a scooter on these dives. Although my buddies signed up for the scooter course on the DIRX weekend I decided not too as it just seems potentially dangerous and slightly rediculous. Dive Safe James

November 13th, 2006, 03:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
MJH(Offline) Mask? Oh yes, I thought it was cold.... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orpington, Kent Posts: 389	Quote: (Originally Posted by jamesd) Although my buddies signed up for the scooter course on the DIRX weekend I decided not too as it just seems potentially dangerous and slightly rediculous. I have spoken to Margaret about bringing scooters to Stoney next weekend She does not have an issue with it As long as everyone uses a bit of common sense there should not be a problem. and what would seem ridiculous to me is taking a scooter out in the sea without practising inland first

November 13th, 2006, 03:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
tim (Online) Big Grin Syndrome Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 455	Quote: (Originally Posted by jamesd) Although my buddies signed up for the scooter course on the DIRX weekend I decided not too as it just seems potentially dangerous and slightly rediculous. I figure that under the collective watchful eyes and smurf hands of AK, Bob, and Clare, we're likely to be kept strictly in check! I'd hope that the back corner of Stoney would be fairly empty if nowhere else. Even on busy weekends I've had quite nice viz and open space over at the far side when the nearby 6m area has been heavingly busy and viz to zero. Even if scooters in a quarry looks a bit overkill I'm hoping it will be bucketloads of fun and an excuse to start my scooter fund :-) Toby - glad to hear your guys were OK. I've had normal finning divers run through my teaching groups before now with pretty bad results so can only imagine what it must be like to be on the wrong end of scooters! Hopefully they weren't put off diving by the incident? Tim

November 13th, 2006, 03:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
neilh(Offline) Haemoglobin on the bus... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Barnsley, UK Posts: 1,900	Quote: (Originally Posted by jamesd) There is no need to use a scooter at places like stoney etc they are too full of divers. I'd have thought that Stoney was big enough to allow people to gain experience and practice of scooters safely. Generally the trainees are gathered in a few key areas of the quarry and you just need to slow it down and keep an eye out in those areas, surely. With the help of a scooter you should easily be able to head out to the far corners of the quarry which are far less crowded cos it's a long way without a scooter. I hope apologies were made regardless

November 13th, 2006, 08:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
Andrew Bryson(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Abingdon Posts: 315	Toby It was Phil Osbourne and I on the scooters on Sunday. I must say that I'm very shocked at your post as I've really no idea what we could have done to "wipe out" two of your students; at no time did I scooter through anybody, I like to exercise a bit more control than that. Regardless, it appears we caused some issue and for that I apologise. Just to say though: - at all points in the dives our lights were on. - the two people that waved at me (seperate events), yeah, perhaps I should have waved back but my light was in my left hand so I nodded at them instead (eye contact). It would have been no issue to swap the light to the right hand, but perhaps next time. - please don't use words like ******. Really, neither Phil or I are like that. If you're at the forthcoming Stoney gig I'll be glad to discuss this with you. Perhaps we can go for a dive or whatever. PM me if you wish. Cheers andy

November 13th, 2006, 08:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
Jecowling(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 120	Andy, Were you driving a short body Gavin or your SS? It might have been someone else! Jen

November 13th, 2006, 08:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
Andrew Bryson(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Abingdon Posts: 315	That would be my SS. It's Phil who slums it on the Gavin a