Balance

LCF · December 29th, 2006, 11:06 PM

I posted this on Scubaboard a while back, but I didn't get a lot of answers, and none from anybody with fitness credentials.

I have a balance problem in my doubles. It's not in the water, it's on land, and particularly after the dive, when I have to get out of the water and make my way up the slope to the cars. Many of our local dive sites have very unstable footing (small, round rocks or loose, coarse sand) and obstacles like logs one must climb over in the process of getting to and from the dive site itself. I've found that negotiating this footing is quite difficult, and I often need my buddy's hand as a proprioceptive reference to get it done.

What I'm wondering is whether this will improve as my strength improves, or whether I should be doing some specific balance training, and if so, what?

For background information, I'm 5'4" and 120 pounds, and diving doubled 85s with 18 pounds of additional weight, so I'm carrying almost my body weight in gear, and I think that's a good portion of the problem. If I get the least bit off kilter, that's all she wrote.

A-M · December 29th, 2006, 11:19 PM

For me the combination of work-out to improve strength in legs/back combined with yoga for balance works great. Although there is nothing wrong with the help of a buddy or some 'joint efforts'

. The basics are you don't want to hurt yourself and should be as self sufficient as possible.

rjack · December 30th, 2006, 03:59 AM

If Peter buys a boat, you won't have this slippy slope issue. :-)

SparticleBrane · December 30th, 2006, 06:15 AM

Dive as a team, walk out of the water as a team.

DanPartelly · December 30th, 2006, 09:45 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF)

I posted this on Scubaboard a while back, but I didn't get a lot of answers, and none from anybody with fitness credentials.

I have a balance problem in my doubles. It's not in the water, it's on land, and particularly after the dive, when I have to get out of the water and make my way up the slope to the cars. Many of our local dive sites have very unstable footing (small, round rocks or loose, coarse sand) and obstacles like logs one must climb over in the process of getting to and from the dive site itself. I've found that negotiating this footing is quite difficult, and I often need my buddy's hand as a proprioceptive reference to get it done.

What I'm wondering is whether this will improve as my strength improves, or whether I should be doing some specific balance training, and if so, what?

For background information, I'm 5'4" and 120 pounds, and diving doubled 85s with 18 pounds of additional weight, so I'm carrying almost my body weight in gear, and I think that's a good portion of the problem. If I get the least bit off kilter, that's all she wrote.

Stregthen your core. Yes, the abdomen and back muscles. A powerfull core will reward you in many ways, better stability beeing just one of them. You can have shitloads of stregth in your legs and arms , but whithout a powerfull core youll always be weak.

It is unlikely that if you have a strong core youll need auxiliary balance drills.

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · December 30th, 2006, 09:59 AM

Hi,

Generally, for a person to be able to lift and carry heavy kit arund, they need a strong back, which you obviously have, but probably more importantly knowledge how to use it.

The problem is that if you are carrying stuff up or down some rocky place and you slip, you will put a lot of strain on a single part of your back (that is acting as your counter balance that moment) instead of the way it is more evenly distributed.

I would say gymnastics, Areobics are best.
Weight training that centers on specific muscles that will teach you how to "draw strength" from certain parts of your back when needed. This will better your balance and reduce risk of back sprains.

I get this knowledge through windsurfing. That is all about balance, counterweights, strong back and jerky movments that could cripple He-man.
I also have one arm longer than the other and it only has around 1/2 of regular funtion. That has made one whole side of my body weaker than the other. But I have adapted myself through training to compensate with other body parts when needed.

This is actually pretty interesting to discuss, so is you have any questions, please feel free.

jerry.mobbs · December 30th, 2006, 10:14 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF)

I posted this on Scubaboard a while back, but I didn't

What I'm wondering is whether this will improve as my strength improves, or whether I should be doing some specific balance training, and if so, what?

For background information, I'm 5'4" and 120 pounds, and diving doubled 85s with 18 pounds of additional weight, so I'm carrying almost my body weight in gear, and I think that's a good portion of the problem. If I get the least bit off kilter, that's all she wrote.

LCF,

Don't be to worried about struggling to carry your own bodyweight in gear up a uneven slope after a dive. Thats a pretty good performance when compared to the rest of the population.

Also remember, you have just gone from relaxed and neutral, to unstable and twice as heavy in a short space of time without the luxury of a warm up.

As the weight your handling is so high relative to your bodyweight, and you don't have balance issues at the start of the dive, I'd suggest you need to focus on improving your basic overall strength and handling loads under movement.

There are many ways to do this. The long answer is enough to fill a book. The short answer is that the book has already been written.

Go to www.startingstrength.com and order the book of the same name.

It is to basic strength training what the Fundamentals of Diving is to basic diving.

If your pushed for time, then read, get coaching and then do squats, deadlifts and power cleans. Those 3 are most relevent to what your trying to achieve.

Some people will whine about squats being 'bad' for you. If you want to disprove them just look at how a 2 yr old squats, or imagine how most grandmothers in asia squat down to take a pee. Thats pretty much how its done.

Follow the simple 5*5 progression in the book, increasing the load when you can.

This program will not turn you into Arnold and is perfect for beginers. I am making the assumption that you have not done a lot of strength work based on your weight to height.

Have fun

Jerry

DanPartelly · December 30th, 2006, 10:29 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC)

Hi,

I would say gymnastics, Areobics are best.

Ok, some specific gymanstic exercises will help me. L-sits, Planches especially, if you can do any variant. Those movments will strengthen his core. But I really dont understand the issue with "aerobics", aerobic training will not help neither his core muscles , neiter improve his balance or increase his kinestetic awarness.

If he craft a strong core , involving all main core muscles , stability will follow. I *guarantee* that. Works like a charm. Muscles in core are the most important stabilizers in the human body. And yet most ppl I know fail to train this region correctly , they do hundreds of crunches and they think they have a strong core. Laughable. They aint only weak, they are imbalanced as well. They might look "good" for a chick, maybe even they got a 6 pack, but they are weak and they dont even know this.

A strong back per se is good, but the core must be stregthen as a whole. You must take care to stregthen both your anterior or posterior chain at the same time.

DanPartelly · December 30th, 2006, 10:35 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jerry.mobbs)

There are many ways to do this. The long answer is enough to fill a book. The short answer is that the book has already been written.

Go to Starting Strength and order the book of the same name.

I second the recomandation for this book. If you want to learn strength training with weights using the big fundamental lifts, this is *the* book to
own.

There are other ways to stregthen your core as well. Some with bodyweight only, which are a little more accesible to do at home then olympic lifts.

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · December 30th, 2006, 10:42 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by DanPartelly)

Ok, some specific gymanstic exercises will help me. L-sits, Planches especially, if you can do any variant. Those movments will strengthen his core. But I really dont understand the issue with "aerobics", aerobic training will not help neither his core muscles , neiter improve his balance or increase his kinestetic awarness.

If he craft a strong core , involving all main core muscles , stability will follow. I *guarantee* that. Works like a charm. Muscles in core are the most important stabilizers in the human body. And yet most ppl I know fail to train this region correctly , they do hundreds of crunches and they think they have a strong core. Laughable. They aint only weak, they are imbalanced as well. They might look "good" for a chick, maybe even they got a 6 pack, but they are weak and they dont even know this.

A strong back per se is good, but the core must be stregthen as a whole. You must take care to stregthen both your anterior or posterior chain at the same time.

You need Aerobics to keep all your muscles working and in a healthy condition. Generally very important for all active people and it even helps you sleep better.
But also, due to the need for short bursts of actual brute force, Gymnastics and mild weight training will also help. But I doubt that any extra muscle formation would help anything here and could actually do more harm than good.

"kinestetic awarness" What dose this word mean?

December 29th, 2006, 11:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 623	Balance I posted this on Scubaboard a while back, but I didn't get a lot of answers, and none from anybody with fitness credentials. I have a balance problem in my doubles. It's not in the water, it's on land, and particularly after the dive, when I have to get out of the water and make my way up the slope to the cars. Many of our local dive sites have very unstable footing (small, round rocks or loose, coarse sand) and obstacles like logs one must climb over in the process of getting to and from the dive site itself. I've found that negotiating this footing is quite difficult, and I often need my buddy's hand as a proprioceptive reference to get it done. What I'm wondering is whether this will improve as my strength improves, or whether I should be doing some specific balance training, and if so, what? For background information, I'm 5'4" and 120 pounds, and diving doubled 85s with 18 pounds of additional weight, so I'm carrying almost my body weight in gear, and I think that's a good portion of the problem. If I get the least bit off kilter, that's all she wrote.

December 30th, 2006, 09:59 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Hi, Generally, for a person to be able to lift and carry heavy kit arund, they need a strong back, which you obviously have, but probably more importantly knowledge how to use it. The problem is that if you are carrying stuff up or down some rocky place and you slip, you will put a lot of strain on a single part of your back (that is acting as your counter balance that moment) instead of the way it is more evenly distributed. I would say gymnastics, Areobics are best. Weight training that centers on specific muscles that will teach you how to "draw strength" from certain parts of your back when needed. This will better your balance and reduce risk of back sprains. I get this knowledge through windsurfing. That is all about balance, counterweights, strong back and jerky movments that could cripple He-man. I also have one arm longer than the other and it only has around 1/2 of regular funtion. That has made one whole side of my body weaker than the other. But I have adapted myself through training to compensate with other body parts when needed. This is actually pretty interesting to discuss, so is you have any questions, please feel free. __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

December 30th, 2006, 10:14 AM	#7 (permalink)
jerry.mobbs(Offline) New Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: asia Posts: 288	Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF) I posted this on Scubaboard a while back, but I didn't What I'm wondering is whether this will improve as my strength improves, or whether I should be doing some specific balance training, and if so, what? For background information, I'm 5'4" and 120 pounds, and diving doubled 85s with 18 pounds of additional weight, so I'm carrying almost my body weight in gear, and I think that's a good portion of the problem. If I get the least bit off kilter, that's all she wrote. LCF, Don't be to worried about struggling to carry your own bodyweight in gear up a uneven slope after a dive. Thats a pretty good performance when compared to the rest of the population. Also remember, you have just gone from relaxed and neutral, to unstable and twice as heavy in a short space of time without the luxury of a warm up. As the weight your handling is so high relative to your bodyweight, and you don't have balance issues at the start of the dive, I'd suggest you need to focus on improving your basic overall strength and handling loads under movement. There are many ways to do this. The long answer is enough to fill a book. The short answer is that the book has already been written. Go to www.startingstrength.com and order the book of the same name. It is to basic strength training what the Fundamentals of Diving is to basic diving. If your pushed for time, then read, get coaching and then do squats, deadlifts and power cleans. Those 3 are most relevent to what your trying to achieve. Some people will whine about squats being 'bad' for you. If you want to disprove them just look at how a 2 yr old squats, or imagine how most grandmothers in asia squat down to take a pee. Thats pretty much how its done. Follow the simple 5*5 progression in the book, increasing the load when you can. This program will not turn you into Arnold and is perfect for beginers. I am making the assumption that you have not done a lot of strength work based on your weight to height. Have fun Jerry __________________ -------------------- www.crossfit.com The DIR of Fitness

December 30th, 2006, 10:42 AM	#10 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Quote: (Originally Posted by DanPartelly) Ok, some specific gymanstic exercises will help me. L-sits, Planches especially, if you can do any variant. Those movments will strengthen his core. But I really dont understand the issue with "aerobics", aerobic training will not help neither his core muscles , neiter improve his balance or increase his kinestetic awarness. If he craft a strong core , involving all main core muscles , stability will follow. I guarantee that. Works like a charm. Muscles in core are the most important stabilizers in the human body. And yet most ppl I know fail to train this region correctly , they do hundreds of crunches and they think they have a strong core. Laughable. They aint only weak, they are imbalanced as well. They might look "good" for a chick, maybe even they got a 6 pack, but they are weak and they dont even know this. A strong back per se is good, but the core must be stregthen as a whole. You must take care to stregthen both your anterior or posterior chain at the same time. You need Aerobics to keep all your muscles working and in a healthy condition. Generally very important for all active people and it even helps you sleep better. But also, due to the need for short bursts of actual brute force, Gymnastics and mild weight training will also help. But I doubt that any extra muscle formation would help anything here and could actually do more harm than good. "kinestetic awarness" What dose this word mean? __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

December 29th, 2006, 11:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
A-M(Offline) Cave addict Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 370	For me the combination of work-out to improve strength in legs/back combined with yoga for balance works great. Although there is nothing wrong with the help of a buddy or some 'joint efforts' . The basics are you don't want to hurt yourself and should be as self sufficient as possible.

December 30th, 2006, 03:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
rjack(Offline) wet behind the ears Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 861	If Peter buys a boat, you won't have this slippy slope issue. :-)

December 30th, 2006, 06:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
SparticleBrane(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 102	Dive as a team, walk out of the water as a team.

December 30th, 2006, 09:45 AM	#5 (permalink)
DanPartelly(Offline) New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 147	Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF) I posted this on Scubaboard a while back, but I didn't get a lot of answers, and none from anybody with fitness credentials. I have a balance problem in my doubles. It's not in the water, it's on land, and particularly after the dive, when I have to get out of the water and make my way up the slope to the cars. Many of our local dive sites have very unstable footing (small, round rocks or loose, coarse sand) and obstacles like logs one must climb over in the process of getting to and from the dive site itself. I've found that negotiating this footing is quite difficult, and I often need my buddy's hand as a proprioceptive reference to get it done. What I'm wondering is whether this will improve as my strength improves, or whether I should be doing some specific balance training, and if so, what? For background information, I'm 5'4" and 120 pounds, and diving doubled 85s with 18 pounds of additional weight, so I'm carrying almost my body weight in gear, and I think that's a good portion of the problem. If I get the least bit off kilter, that's all she wrote. Stregthen your core. Yes, the abdomen and back muscles. A powerfull core will reward you in many ways, better stability beeing just one of them. You can have shitloads of stregth in your legs and arms , but whithout a powerfull core youll always be weak. It is unlikely that if you have a strong core youll need auxiliary balance drills.

December 30th, 2006, 10:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
DanPartelly(Offline) New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 147	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC) Hi, I would say gymnastics, Areobics are best. Ok, some specific gymanstic exercises will help me. L-sits, Planches especially, if you can do any variant. Those movments will strengthen his core. But I really dont understand the issue with "aerobics", aerobic training will not help neither his core muscles , neiter improve his balance or increase his kinestetic awarness. If he craft a strong core , involving all main core muscles , stability will follow. I guarantee that. Works like a charm. Muscles in core are the most important stabilizers in the human body. And yet most ppl I know fail to train this region correctly , they do hundreds of crunches and they think they have a strong core. Laughable. They aint only weak, they are imbalanced as well. They might look "good" for a chick, maybe even they got a 6 pack, but they are weak and they dont even know this. A strong back per se is good, but the core must be stregthen as a whole. You must take care to stregthen both your anterior or posterior chain at the same time.

December 30th, 2006, 10:35 AM	#9 (permalink)
DanPartelly(Offline) New Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Romania Posts: 147	Quote: (Originally Posted by jerry.mobbs) There are many ways to do this. The long answer is enough to fill a book. The short answer is that the book has already been written. Go to Starting Strength and order the book of the same name. I second the recomandation for this book. If you want to learn strength training with weights using the big fundamental lifts, this is the book to own. There are other ways to stregthen your core as well. Some with bodyweight only, which are a little more accesible to do at home then olympic lifts.