The best of dives - the worst of dives.

*Clare Gledhill* · June 18th, 2008, 12:35 PM

Al and I said that we would write up some dives from teh Florida trip and hoped that others would do the same. I know that Al has done write ups from Ginnie and other places we went - but I said that I would do this one as it was 'one of those dives'

Hole in the Wall Cave has held a fascination for me since I first went there in early 2007. You reach the cave which is located on Merrit's Mill Pond via a boat which you can rent from Edd at Cave Adventures.

There are quite a few caves in Merritt's of which I have dived Jackson Blue, Twin Cave and Hole in the Wall but it is the latter which I really enjoy. I've done three trips there and have swum both upstream and downstream for about 2,000 feet. The huge white rooms were just made for scootering and each time I turned the dive I longed to come back and see more of the cave.

So, when I planned a return trip in May, I was very pleased to be able to return to Hole in the Wall with three great buddies and four scooters. Booking Hole in the Wall House seemed a good idea - a house overlooking the Mill Pond which was a short scooter ride from Hole in the Wall cave. We decided against scootering to the cave when we saw jet boats on the Memorial weekend tearing down the Mill Pond at breakneck speed and traveled by boat instead

We built gear on the boat and then returned to the house to enjoy the air conditioning whilst we suited up. The scooters looked interesting, John's Magnum was very negative but the only weight which was in it was a 2kg chunk. He removed this but it was left very light. Mine was heavy, and there was no weight in it that could be removed. This took some time but we were chilled out and there was no rush.

We motored over to the dive site and tied up to two other boats which were there. I remember putting my neckseal on, which had been wearing thin, thinking to myself 'this would be a really bad time to split a seal'. You guessed it - a huge tear in the seal.

I am lucky to dive with nice people who were happy for me to take the time to sort it out. Joe drove me back on the boat to pick up a spare zip neck seal from the house whilst Al and John sorted scooters and bottles. The start of the dive was getting later still.

Al's scooter had been built with the battery pack upside down - so needed hauling out of the water and sorting out. As John and I were geared up we headed into the cave to lay the line in through the narrow entrance - to await the others inside. John did a great job running the reel amongst the other lines that were already in place from the other teams, never easy with three stages and a scooter, some of which he had to remove to squeeze through. O2 bottles were dropped.

John had not been to Hole in the Wall before and spotting a mainline off to his right at the bottom of the small shaft headed over to tie in. I gestured him over the the left where there is another line and the one we had planned to take. At this stage Al and Joe joined us and, after switching to bottom stages, we set off.

Hole in the Wall is a cave with huge white rooms chained one after another. It is a large cave which is deep in places with very, very fine silt - so a brown floor with white walls and decorations on the ceiling (mineral deposits) like chandeliers. From the first time I saw the cave I thought it would be great to scooter here and I really enjoyed the ride in even though the visibility was not the beautiful blue I remembered from before. We switched the lead several times between me, John and Al.

Quite quickly John signaled a bottle drop. I was very surprised by the timing of this but it turned out that john had laid the line in on his stage whereas the rest of us had entered on back gas only switching once we were past the restriction.

We set off again making good time and distance, staying high away from the silty floor. After some time we passed the extent of where I had swum before and the cave started to narrow down. I slowed down as I was finding it slightly tricky to monitor the line which was over to the right in a much smaller part of the cave, away from where we were traveling. I realized that we were reaching the restriction which Edd had shown me on the map and sure enough a minute or so later we did.

Popping through we were able to get back on the trigger for a short time but then a long low section of cave meant that we were best to move forward slowly, alternating between swimming and scootering where possible. We hit drop pressure on the second stages so dropped the scooters too as agreed. We were intending to dive a very small amount of back gas after we dropped the scooters leaving a large reserve.

We passed a couple more Ts to the right and then the cave started to get bigger. And then bigger. And then bigger still. I was up ahead and could see in my mind the map which sowed the end of the cave as called 'the mother of all waters' We were near to the end of the line, perhaps a few hundred feet off when the dive was called on duration and distance rather than gas. We were at around 4,000 feet - or

As we turned I was faced with the awesome sight of the three other guys swimming out bathing the cave in light. Having led in for a large portion of the dive in, I had missed this and it was truly a sight to behold. I was having a great time.

Four divers entering followed by four divers leaving had disturbed silt on the walls and the ceiling of the cave a little but it did not detract from the moment. I relaxed into the pace of an exit, reflecting on the dive in and slightly rueful that we had not made it to the end of the line, vowing to return another day which was something to smile about.

We made our way back to the scooters and stages and switched. My back gas was still reading well over 200 bar which is always a nice feeling to have on an exit. I hit the trigger to follow the others out and my primary reg free flowed in the prop wash from the scooter. No problem - reach down and face it down wards to stop it. Hit the trigger again.

We make some progress out and my reg goes again. And again. Each time it is not a big deal but I'm getting a little fed up with it. I contemplate shutting off my right post but don't really fancy losing my wing and to be honest, how bad can it be? I come off the trigger momentarily and check that the reg is wound right back and that the venturi is correctly set. It is so I have no idea what is causing the problem. Oh well, just deal with it.

We get to the long low section of cave and with four divers going in and four coming out again visibility has deteriorated with each passing. Each of us subconsciously moves closer to the line which is laid in a slightly tighter part of the cave so disturbance increases accordingly with less room to work with. With all of that going on, visibility at the back goes from bad to worse and then - quite suddenly and very dramatically to zero.

Funny - I've done quite a few lights out exits from cave in training but zero viz is very different - you know there is light, you know your eyes are open but even putting your HID to your mask gives almost nothing back. Oh well, get on with it girl, training meant that the line was in my hand before I thought about it and all I need to do now is get out. We are not in touch contact, each of us has the line in one hand and a scooter in the other which we need to carry with us if we are to be able to get out when we get back to better visibility - there is no spare hand free to hold on to your team but moving forward I intentionally bump Al to let him know I am there.

I find it quite hard to make progress. My scooter is heavy and if I have to use two hands to negotiate a station I physically have to pick it up again and haul it out of the silt to continue. The line is close to the cave ceiling and my manifold and tanks makes continual contact with the rock above, necessitating a move back wards and sideways on several occasions to find free passage toward the exit.

It was when I bumped the same section three times finding my way forward blocked each time that a few little thoughts popped into my head.

How much back gas did I lose from those free flows?
How long will the gas I have last at this rate of progress?
How much slower are we traveling now compared to when we came in?

Will we make it out of here?

OK GIRL YOU CAN SNAP OUT OF THAT LINE OF THOUGHT!

I will not allow myself to think like that. It is not helpful and will do me no good at all. I'll put it in a box right here and now and will worry about it later. If I can worry about it later then I will have nothing to worry about. Right - drop the scooter, feel ahead, find a way through, move forward. Pick up the scooter.

Being at the back of the team I have the worse conditions as each of the guys is adding to the disturbance just by making their own progress out. I am making the slowest progress due to this and for a short amount of time the distance between us grows until Al feels his way back down the back down the line and finds me by literally slamming into me.

I've nailed the box shut. Drop the scooter, feel ahead, find a way through, move forward. Pick up the scooter.

We reach a slightly larger piece of cave and with less movement in a tight place the viz increases to a point we can swim, first in touch contact, then away from the line. We get to the restriction and go through - and I'm amused to see Kevin and Cris sat there waiting to head in. I gesture to Kevin that the cave is not in great shape back there although I discover later that they swim through in touch contact for a bit and then find it has cleared.

The exit from that point was uneventful as we were able to make progress. I exited the cave with 100 bar in back gas but never switched to my last stage bottle so gas was never an issue in the end.

Lessons learned? Four was too big a group to take into that cave and if I did the dive again in a smaller group I'd work scooters slightly differently, swimming them through the centerer section would be best I think.

Training really is more vital than you can possibly imagine. Getting close to the line may have temporarily made the problem worse but it is what got us all out. A scooter can get you further into a cave than you realize at a speed which you cannot replicate without being able to use it on exit. Plans for loosing scooters should include loosing all of them - ie, not being able to use them due to environmental conditions rather than just simply planning for failure and that is why redundant back gas is vital.

I jumped back in the next day and enjoyed an end of the line dive in Twin Cave without scooters, and the day after that got back in the saddle properly with some mutli stage deep scooter dives which were great fun. My reg free flowed intermitently when scootering - it appears that there is nothing wrong with it and moving the boltsnap slightly further up appears to get it out of the prop wash to a point that it is happy.

The best of dives?
The worst of dives?

A good dive.

I talked a little to John afterwards, and Jarrod the next day. They described dives like that as 'grass is greener, sky is bluer' - I'd not had one before and would prefer to avoid many more.

**neilh** · June 18th, 2008, 12:43 PM

Another nice write up Clare, thanks for sharing.

Sounds like a "character building" dive that one

*JGrogan* · June 18th, 2008, 12:54 PM

Clare,

... and the first beer you have that evening will be the best ever

John.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Clare Gledhill)

They described dives like that as 'grass is greener, sky is bluer'

londonsean69 · June 18th, 2008, 01:05 PM

It only makes me want to do the cave course a touch more

Sounds like you really enjoyed yourself, despite the diffucult conditions, and I can't blame you really

The hard dives really make you appreciate the ones where everything works out perfectly.

**jb2cool** · June 18th, 2008, 01:19 PM

not really a reflection on the write-up but looking at the pics, it does look really pretty and picturesque. Love the long trails of hanging moss/lichen.

rotor60driver · June 18th, 2008, 01:23 PM

Clare,

You have hit on probably my favorite cave here in the MillPond. Since "Hole" cleared up in late February I have been able to dive it 4 or 5 times and plan a dive there this Sunday. I don't scooter though so the end of the line is a little out of reach for now, but I'll keep in mind this report when I do. Thanks for a great report and some good points to think on.

Shawn

LCF · June 18th, 2008, 07:10 PM

Thank you for sharing this.

What I take from it is that there are no "little things" in a cave. The negative scooter turned out to be a BIG deal in an unforeseen problem circumstance, as might the intermittently freeflowing reg.

I think, from my lofty perch on a grand total of about 50 cave dives, that it could be extremely easy to get blase about small problems, and say, "Oh, it's okay, I can deal with that." When the unforgiving nature of cave diving is going to magnify the effect of anything that isn't working correctly, when the cave itself gets in your way.

Thanks again for writing.

Elemental · June 19th, 2008, 04:51 AM

HITW is one of my favorite caves, although as a swimming diver, I've always preferred the Upstream section. Thanks for whetting my appetite for Downstream and for scootering (as if that needed any further whetting!) with this report.

Owen Petchey · June 20th, 2008, 12:24 PM

Hi Clare,

Many thanks for the write up, especially of an experience that was both good and, well, not so good. And respect for shutting that box.

Learning lessons from experiences like that often is a very difficult process. You identified a couple of cave specific lessons (four was too many, where to swim the scooters). You also identified some general lessons (importance of training, scooter planning).

I wonder if you, and others, think that another lesson is to not make such large jumps in complexity / duration / distance? It sounds like one of your group did their first dive in this cave with scooter and two stages. It sounds like others dived the restricted area for the first time with scooter and stage. Indeed, slower progression may have allowed the foresight that four was too many, and of where to swim the scooters.

My understanding is that it is safer, for many reasons, to progress at a slower rate than this. For example only, first dive on back gas, second dive on back gas, third dive stage + backgas, fourth dive stage + backgas, fifth dive stage + backgas + scooter, and so on. Clearly any specific rate will be dive and team specific.

I think that the most important take home from your experience is to limit rates of progression.

Interested in your thoughts,
Owen

**Alastair** · June 20th, 2008, 03:13 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Owen Petchey)

Hi Clare,

Many thanks for the write up, especially of an experience that was both good and, well, not so good. And respect for shutting that box.

Learning lessons from experiences like that often is a very difficult process. You identified a couple of cave specific lessons (four was too many, where to swim the scooters). You also identified some general lessons (importance of training, scooter planning).

I wonder if you, and others, think that another lesson is to not make such large jumps in complexity / duration / distance? It sounds like one of your group did their first dive in this cave with scooter and two stages. It sounds like others dived the restricted area for the first time with scooter and stage. Indeed, slower progression may have allowed the foresight that four was too many, and of where to swim the scooters.

My understanding is that it is safer, for many reasons, to progress at a slower rate than this. For example only, first dive on back gas, second dive on back gas, third dive stage + backgas, fourth dive stage + backgas, fifth dive stage + backgas + scooter, and so on. Clearly any specific rate will be dive and team specific.

I think that the most important take home from your experience is to limit rates of progression.

Interested in your thoughts,
Owen

The trouble is what is a standard dive for you? Scootering a cave with stages was actually familiar territory for all 4 of us. We may not have scootered in that particularly cave before but does that mean you shouldn't?

What level of qualification and experience means you don't have to do the "progressive penetration approach" to diving a cave? Do the swim dives that several of the team have done (me included) not count because it was the first time that one member of the team had dived in the cave?

Scooters add a huge potential in terms of the distance you can cover, but that's why they get used. It also allows you to get into a world of problems and that is why they shouldn't be used lightly.

As it happens I was in the same position as Clare exiting with zero vis and my attitude was simply oh well - zero vis exit, been here before. I've had to cope with low vis exits on a couple of dives now both on classes and for real. It's a real eye opening in terms of the amount it can slow you down but it didn't worry me at the time. I think there are some good lessons to be had from Clare's post. I didn't see progression being one of them, but then I know who I was diving with

Cheers
Al

June 18th, 2008, 12:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Clare Gledhill(Offline) GUE Instructor Site Admin Pacman Champion! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,541	The best of dives - the worst of dives. Al and I said that we would write up some dives from teh Florida trip and hoped that others would do the same. I know that Al has done write ups from Ginnie and other places we went - but I said that I would do this one as it was 'one of those dives' Hole in the Wall Cave has held a fascination for me since I first went there in early 2007. You reach the cave which is located on Merrit's Mill Pond via a boat which you can rent from Edd at Cave Adventures. There are quite a few caves in Merritt's of which I have dived Jackson Blue, Twin Cave and Hole in the Wall but it is the latter which I really enjoy. I've done three trips there and have swum both upstream and downstream for about 2,000 feet. The huge white rooms were just made for scootering and each time I turned the dive I longed to come back and see more of the cave. So, when I planned a return trip in May, I was very pleased to be able to return to Hole in the Wall with three great buddies and four scooters. Booking Hole in the Wall House seemed a good idea - a house overlooking the Mill Pond which was a short scooter ride from Hole in the Wall cave. We decided against scootering to the cave when we saw jet boats on the Memorial weekend tearing down the Mill Pond at breakneck speed and traveled by boat instead We built gear on the boat and then returned to the house to enjoy the air conditioning whilst we suited up. The scooters looked interesting, John's Magnum was very negative but the only weight which was in it was a 2kg chunk. He removed this but it was left very light. Mine was heavy, and there was no weight in it that could be removed. This took some time but we were chilled out and there was no rush. We motored over to the dive site and tied up to two other boats which were there. I remember putting my neckseal on, which had been wearing thin, thinking to myself 'this would be a really bad time to split a seal'. You guessed it - a huge tear in the seal. I am lucky to dive with nice people who were happy for me to take the time to sort it out. Joe drove me back on the boat to pick up a spare zip neck seal from the house whilst Al and John sorted scooters and bottles. The start of the dive was getting later still. Al's scooter had been built with the battery pack upside down - so needed hauling out of the water and sorting out. As John and I were geared up we headed into the cave to lay the line in through the narrow entrance - to await the others inside. John did a great job running the reel amongst the other lines that were already in place from the other teams, never easy with three stages and a scooter, some of which he had to remove to squeeze through. O2 bottles were dropped. John had not been to Hole in the Wall before and spotting a mainline off to his right at the bottom of the small shaft headed over to tie in. I gestured him over the the left where there is another line and the one we had planned to take. At this stage Al and Joe joined us and, after switching to bottom stages, we set off. Hole in the Wall is a cave with huge white rooms chained one after another. It is a large cave which is deep in places with very, very fine silt - so a brown floor with white walls and decorations on the ceiling (mineral deposits) like chandeliers. From the first time I saw the cave I thought it would be great to scooter here and I really enjoyed the ride in even though the visibility was not the beautiful blue I remembered from before. We switched the lead several times between me, John and Al. Quite quickly John signaled a bottle drop. I was very surprised by the timing of this but it turned out that john had laid the line in on his stage whereas the rest of us had entered on back gas only switching once we were past the restriction. We set off again making good time and distance, staying high away from the silty floor. After some time we passed the extent of where I had swum before and the cave started to narrow down. I slowed down as I was finding it slightly tricky to monitor the line which was over to the right in a much smaller part of the cave, away from where we were traveling. I realized that we were reaching the restriction which Edd had shown me on the map and sure enough a minute or so later we did. Popping through we were able to get back on the trigger for a short time but then a long low section of cave meant that we were best to move forward slowly, alternating between swimming and scootering where possible. We hit drop pressure on the second stages so dropped the scooters too as agreed. We were intending to dive a very small amount of back gas after we dropped the scooters leaving a large reserve. We passed a couple more Ts to the right and then the cave started to get bigger. And then bigger. And then bigger still. I was up ahead and could see in my mind the map which sowed the end of the cave as called 'the mother of all waters' We were near to the end of the line, perhaps a few hundred feet off when the dive was called on duration and distance rather than gas. We were at around 4,000 feet - or As we turned I was faced with the awesome sight of the three other guys swimming out bathing the cave in light. Having led in for a large portion of the dive in, I had missed this and it was truly a sight to behold. I was having a great time. Four divers entering followed by four divers leaving had disturbed silt on the walls and the ceiling of the cave a little but it did not detract from the moment. I relaxed into the pace of an exit, reflecting on the dive in and slightly rueful that we had not made it to the end of the line, vowing to return another day which was something to smile about. We made our way back to the scooters and stages and switched. My back gas was still reading well over 200 bar which is always a nice feeling to have on an exit. I hit the trigger to follow the others out and my primary reg free flowed in the prop wash from the scooter. No problem - reach down and face it down wards to stop it. Hit the trigger again. We make some progress out and my reg goes again. And again. Each time it is not a big deal but I'm getting a little fed up with it. I contemplate shutting off my right post but don't really fancy losing my wing and to be honest, how bad can it be? I come off the trigger momentarily and check that the reg is wound right back and that the venturi is correctly set. It is so I have no idea what is causing the problem. Oh well, just deal with it. We get to the long low section of cave and with four divers going in and four coming out again visibility has deteriorated with each passing. Each of us subconsciously moves closer to the line which is laid in a slightly tighter part of the cave so disturbance increases accordingly with less room to work with. With all of that going on, visibility at the back goes from bad to worse and then - quite suddenly and very dramatically to zero. Funny - I've done quite a few lights out exits from cave in training but zero viz is very different - you know there is light, you know your eyes are open but even putting your HID to your mask gives almost nothing back. Oh well, get on with it girl, training meant that the line was in my hand before I thought about it and all I need to do now is get out. We are not in touch contact, each of us has the line in one hand and a scooter in the other which we need to carry with us if we are to be able to get out when we get back to better visibility - there is no spare hand free to hold on to your team but moving forward I intentionally bump Al to let him know I am there. I find it quite hard to make progress. My scooter is heavy and if I have to use two hands to negotiate a station I physically have to pick it up again and haul it out of the silt to continue. The line is close to the cave ceiling and my manifold and tanks makes continual contact with the rock above, necessitating a move back wards and sideways on several occasions to find free passage toward the exit. It was when I bumped the same section three times finding my way forward blocked each time that a few little thoughts popped into my head. How much back gas did I lose from those free flows? How long will the gas I have last at this rate of progress? How much slower are we traveling now compared to when we came in? Will we make it out of here? OK GIRL YOU CAN SNAP OUT OF THAT LINE OF THOUGHT! I will not allow myself to think like that. It is not helpful and will do me no good at all. I'll put it in a box right here and now and will worry about it later. If I can worry about it later then I will have nothing to worry about. Right - drop the scooter, feel ahead, find a way through, move forward. Pick up the scooter. Being at the back of the team I have the worse conditions as each of the guys is adding to the disturbance just by making their own progress out. I am making the slowest progress due to this and for a short amount of time the distance between us grows until Al feels his way back down the back down the line and finds me by literally slamming into me. I've nailed the box shut. Drop the scooter, feel ahead, find a way through, move forward. Pick up the scooter. We reach a slightly larger piece of cave and with less movement in a tight place the viz increases to a point we can swim, first in touch contact, then away from the line. We get to the restriction and go through - and I'm amused to see Kevin and Cris sat there waiting to head in. I gesture to Kevin that the cave is not in great shape back there although I discover later that they swim through in touch contact for a bit and then find it has cleared. The exit from that point was uneventful as we were able to make progress. I exited the cave with 100 bar in back gas but never switched to my last stage bottle so gas was never an issue in the end. Lessons learned? Four was too big a group to take into that cave and if I did the dive again in a smaller group I'd work scooters slightly differently, swimming them through the centerer section would be best I think. Training really is more vital than you can possibly imagine. Getting close to the line may have temporarily made the problem worse but it is what got us all out. A scooter can get you further into a cave than you realize at a speed which you cannot replicate without being able to use it on exit. Plans for loosing scooters should include loosing all of them - ie, not being able to use them due to environmental conditions rather than just simply planning for failure and that is why redundant back gas is vital. I jumped back in the next day and enjoyed an end of the line dive in Twin Cave without scooters, and the day after that got back in the saddle properly with some mutli stage deep scooter dives which were great fun. My reg free flowed intermitently when scootering - it appears that there is nothing wrong with it and moving the boltsnap slightly further up appears to get it out of the prop wash to a point that it is happy. The best of dives? The worst of dives? A good dive. I talked a little to John afterwards, and Jarrod the next day. They described dives like that as 'grass is greener, sky is bluer' - I'd not had one before and would prefer to avoid many more. __________________ Clare . "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions....Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great." Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk Last edited by Clare Gledhill; June 18th, 2008 at 01:02 PM.

June 18th, 2008, 01:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
londonsean69(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: London Posts: 96	It only makes me want to do the cave course a touch more Sounds like you really enjoyed yourself, despite the diffucult conditions, and I can't blame you really The hard dives really make you appreciate the ones where everything works out perfectly. __________________ Sean ______________________ If in doubt, give it a clout!

June 18th, 2008, 01:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 798	not really a reflection on the write-up but looking at the pics, it does look really pretty and picturesque. Love the long trails of hanging moss/lichen. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com

June 18th, 2008, 07:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 623	Thank you for sharing this. What I take from it is that there are no "little things" in a cave. The negative scooter turned out to be a BIG deal in an unforeseen problem circumstance, as might the intermittently freeflowing reg. I think, from my lofty perch on a grand total of about 50 cave dives, that it could be extremely easy to get blase about small problems, and say, "Oh, it's okay, I can deal with that." When the unforgiving nature of cave diving is going to magnify the effect of anything that isn't working correctly, when the cave itself gets in your way. Thanks again for writing. __________________ check out www.divematrix.com "So, it's a good thing to always do the drills the same way . . . but in real life you need to act the right way, whatever that happens to be." LauNar

June 20th, 2008, 12:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
Owen Petchey(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sheffield Posts: 40	Rate of progression? Hi Clare, Many thanks for the write up, especially of an experience that was both good and, well, not so good. And respect for shutting that box. Learning lessons from experiences like that often is a very difficult process. You identified a couple of cave specific lessons (four was too many, where to swim the scooters). You also identified some general lessons (importance of training, scooter planning). I wonder if you, and others, think that another lesson is to not make such large jumps in complexity / duration / distance? It sounds like one of your group did their first dive in this cave with scooter and two stages. It sounds like others dived the restricted area for the first time with scooter and stage. Indeed, slower progression may have allowed the foresight that four was too many, and of where to swim the scooters. My understanding is that it is safer, for many reasons, to progress at a slower rate than this. For example only, first dive on back gas, second dive on back gas, third dive stage + backgas, fourth dive stage + backgas, fifth dive stage + backgas + scooter, and so on. Clearly any specific rate will be dive and team specific. I think that the most important take home from your experience is to limit rates of progression. Interested in your thoughts, Owen

June 18th, 2008, 12:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
neilh(Offline) Haemoglobin on the bus... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Barnsley, UK Posts: 1,900	Another nice write up Clare, thanks for sharing. Sounds like a "character building" dive that one

June 18th, 2008, 12:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
JGrogan(Offline) GUE Join Date: May 2006 Location: London Posts: 439	Clare, ... and the first beer you have that evening will be the best ever John. Quote: (Originally Posted by Clare Gledhill) They described dives like that as 'grass is greener, sky is bluer'

June 18th, 2008, 01:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
rotor60driver(Offline) New Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 8	Clare, You have hit on probably my favorite cave here in the MillPond. Since "Hole" cleared up in late February I have been able to dive it 4 or 5 times and plan a dive there this Sunday. I don't scooter though so the end of the line is a little out of reach for now, but I'll keep in mind this report when I do. Thanks for a great report and some good points to think on. Shawn

June 19th, 2008, 04:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
Elemental(Offline) New Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: US Posts: 9	HITW is one of my favorite caves, although as a swimming diver, I've always preferred the Upstream section. Thanks for whetting my appetite for Downstream and for scootering (as if that needed any further whetting!) with this report.

June 20th, 2008, 03:13 PM	#10 (permalink)
Alastair(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 693	Quote: (Originally Posted by Owen Petchey) Hi Clare, Many thanks for the write up, especially of an experience that was both good and, well, not so good. And respect for shutting that box. Learning lessons from experiences like that often is a very difficult process. You identified a couple of cave specific lessons (four was too many, where to swim the scooters). You also identified some general lessons (importance of training, scooter planning). I wonder if you, and others, think that another lesson is to not make such large jumps in complexity / duration / distance? It sounds like one of your group did their first dive in this cave with scooter and two stages. It sounds like others dived the restricted area for the first time with scooter and stage. Indeed, slower progression may have allowed the foresight that four was too many, and of where to swim the scooters. My understanding is that it is safer, for many reasons, to progress at a slower rate than this. For example only, first dive on back gas, second dive on back gas, third dive stage + backgas, fourth dive stage + backgas, fifth dive stage + backgas + scooter, and so on. Clearly any specific rate will be dive and team specific. I think that the most important take home from your experience is to limit rates of progression. Interested in your thoughts, Owen The trouble is what is a standard dive for you? Scootering a cave with stages was actually familiar territory for all 4 of us. We may not have scootered in that particularly cave before but does that mean you shouldn't? What level of qualification and experience means you don't have to do the "progressive penetration approach" to diving a cave? Do the swim dives that several of the team have done (me included) not count because it was the first time that one member of the team had dived in the cave? Scooters add a huge potential in terms of the distance you can cover, but that's why they get used. It also allows you to get into a world of problems and that is why they shouldn't be used lightly. As it happens I was in the same position as Clare exiting with zero vis and my attitude was simply oh well - zero vis exit, been here before. I've had to cope with low vis exits on a couple of dives now both on classes and for real. It's a real eye opening in terms of the amount it can slow you down but it didn't worry me at the time. I think there are some good lessons to be had from Clare's post. I didn't see progression being one of them, but then I know who I was diving with Cheers Al __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3 Last edited by webmaster; June 23rd, 2008 at 11:28 AM.