lizardland (Online)

Last time I dived on air on a 35m wreck I ended up swimming the wrong way at the bottom of the shot and spent the rest of the trip back on the boat complaining about how crap the wreck was

I've now got the N2 tolerance of a 17yr old girl on Lambrini and a SAC resembling Gary Glitter in Vietnamese primary school. Rebreathers are bad, kids... mmmkay...

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The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline)

Aaahh; Young Ben, seeing sense in my ramblings merely means that you are maturing.... (I will not add a smiley since they make you angry but ha ha anyway)

I got back here by luck and have not checked if this thread is as dead as it should be by now.... If it isn't, I might just stay up for some midnight fun.

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Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline)

I agree!
I am sooo paranoid from CCR, that I will never touch one of the bloody things, thus the chances of one killing me are next to nil!
The reason I don't say absolute nil, is that MAYBE some CCR hyper-****** might still get the better of me underwater

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Life and Death, although stemming from one another, seem to conflict as stages of change.
Ahmed Adly,
www.deepvoyage.com

Ali Fikree(Offline)

Incorrect-read my post again. I also specifically said to correct me if I am wrong. Nothing is mentioned or made clear with this issue in any CCR course that I have heard of or read about THATS why I asked.

So basically, I can turn up to do a CCR course ,fail it, and still walk away from the course with unit and continue to dive it? Would this not effect CCR death rates (More) and quality control? If so, why do manufacturers insist on shipping to the instructor? Throw in agency credibility

They should just ship it to you direct with a training manual. Besides you paid for it and you do now own it right?

At present I am looking at doing an RB80 in June in Florida.I have also accepted the fact in the event I do not get through the course my RB will not be going home with me and quite rightfully so.

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The important thing is not to stop questioning.—Albert Einstein

NickB (Online)

It was (and still is) my suspicion that you knew the answer already Ali. If not I apologise.

I don't know about other manufacturers, although I suspect that sales commission plays some part in this.

However, my JJ-CCR was shipped to me not my instructor. I had to sit and stare at it for a month until I did my course. Had I failed the course I would have scheduled some further training but would not have expected to be patronised and treated like a child. It was also shipped fully enabled, i.e. full trimix and decompression. My ticket is for air diluent with no deco. What I choose to do with it is up to me.

What have the agency got to do with this? They don't make the units. We're constantly being told that GUE does not equate to Halcyon - yeah right!

I was trained by IART not JJ-CCR. If I choose to go out and start using 10/70 on long, deep dives straight after MOD1 - that would not be the fault of IART (or JJ-CCR for that matter)

Exactly. If I was to walk into a Bugatti showroom and slap enough money on the counter, would they demand to see my driving qualifications before letting me drive off in my new Veyron?

And as far as I'm aware the RB80 is the only course with this stipulation. 'quite rightfully so' is your opinion. Frankly, if I buy something, I own it and it's mine to do with as I please. If the manufacturers insist that they must be satisfied that I'm not going to pose a risk to myself or others, then they should rent me the item for the course and only sell me one once I've demonstrated adequate competency.

Ali Fikree(Offline)

Nick, If I knew the answer then why would I ask the question?

With regards to your personal training thats the mindset of a mature and responsible diver -kudos to you. but again this is not the case for many others that just want to use a CCR as a short cut.

Sure, but try getting insurance for that type of car with a new driving license. You wont be covered if you have been driving for less than two years or your insurance premium will be sky high. Regarding CCR , and I dont know the insurance policy on diving them, but I doubt you or your family will get any form of compensation if you are not certified to dive on one.

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The important thing is not to stop questioning.—Albert Einstein

lizardland (Online)

There is no legal requirement for the end user to hold a cert for the rebreather so what right would an instructor have to withold the unit unless everyone had entered into some contract in advance?

Anyway... so what? If the (untrained) user goes out and kills himself, yes it's sad but ultimately he made a decision which has consequences. An inherent flaw in the unit didn't kill him, the consequences of his actions did. It's time we all hardened-TFU and started accepting that until we develop the ability to breathe water then every single dive related decision we make has a ton of responsibilities attached.

Also, why does the assumption persist that rebreather divers are completely devoid of rational behaviour? In the long list of rebreather "crimes" that get bandied about here and elsewhere about 95% of them are based on some bizarre assumption that rebreather ownership equates to the end of any trace of common sense or logical thought. Wise up, rebreather divers are amongst the most switched on group of divers you'll find, on the whole no-one is doing any of the downright stupid things that they get accused of. They aren't some band of frenzied divers determined to get in the water in spite of common sense or any form of restraint.

__________________
Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you?

www.westons-cider.co.uk

The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

NickB (Online)

But all of that applies to open circuit equipment. There's nothing to stop me wandering into a shop and buying a load of gear. If I rock-up to a course and fail miserably, it's not confiscated until I show an improvement.

Granted there may be a few more ways to kill oneself with a rebreather but the end result is the same.

JGrogan(Offline)

The whole idea of allowing a student, who disasterously fails a RB course, to take their unit home with them sits very uneasily with me. If they have demonstrated that they cannot safely dive the unit, then in my view they shouldn't have it.

I know all the arguments about letting people make their own (bad) decisions, but those decisions do impact on the rest of us. For those who have tried to get life assurance, just uttering the words trimix or cave diving, greatly increases a premium (if you can get one) and increases the risk of government regulation. So, while some idiot might kill themselves on their units, that death does have a small consequence for the rest of us.

Best,
John.

Mark Chase(Offline)

Its a bit difficult to go away and practice if you haven't got a unit to practice on

You can fail a course for many reasons that don't make you dangerous

One assumes that even if you failed the course you'd have received the basics in how to set up and dive a CCR/SCR. Surely the diver should go away and practice before being re assessed.

Treating students like children doesn't make any sense to me. Id only condone it if the person was a danger to them selves.

If someone is going to go an dive the unit on proper dives without certification surely they'd do that regardless of who instructed them?


I hear the fail rate on the RB80 is high. I cant believe a Tec2 qualified GUE diver is going to fail at a level where they represent a danger to them selves???


ATB

Mark

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