For the girls only.... - Page 2

daz · December 26th, 2005, 07:57 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gledders)

Right you guys - I can see you looking at this thread - bet you wish you hadn't

You have no idea

However on the plus side I feel I have a pretty good grasp of the theory on this subject. Now if anyone would like to volunteer so I can get a grip on the practical side of things that would be great. :D

Daz

Dawn · December 26th, 2005, 08:06 PM

Sorry - I made it sound like the glue-on, external catheter idea was new in itself. I know versions of these have been tested for a while now (I tested a prototype in 1999).

This is a new style of external catheter that is supposed to work very well, fit very well, and be easy to put on/take off (minus the shaving/waxing that is necessary....I think one of the guys I know made a "politically incorrect" statement about guys buying their girlfriends one of these catheters for that exact purpose...)

I will find out the name of the company as quickly as possible and post info ASAP (I'm on vacation so it may take a few days...)

Dawn

Haglund · December 26th, 2005, 08:10 PM

Hi Dawn!

Coming to sweden soon, or are you already here?

Regarding the glue on external female catheters, is it not the one A-M shows in the link in her reply? These seems quite nice (even though they require some extent of hair reduction :p) but will probably be an expensive option. But, it might be worth it for the longer deco dives, I really don't fancy the dipers...

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawn)

Hi Clare,

In the past I have always used adult diapers and they work just fine (max
in-water time using these was around 5.5 hours). Always entertaining to explain why you have a case of these at home to a non-diver date or visitor...:p

I also heard about a new style of "glue-on", external catheters they are developing for women. Sorry if this is TMI, but it definitely makes sense that certain areas have to be shaved in order to use this effectively and without too much pain. There have been some women who have tested this and said it is wonderful, but I don't know when they will be made available to the public (they may be already...)

Hope this helps! Happy Holidays,
Dawn

Haglund · December 26th, 2005, 08:12 PM

Looking forward to your research results...

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawn)

Sorry - I made it sound like the glue-on, external catheter idea was new in itself. I know versions of these have been tested for a while now (I tested a prototype in 1999).

This is a new style of external catheter that is supposed to work very well, fit very well, and be easy to put on/take off (minus the shaving/waxing that is necessary....I think one of the guys I know made a "politically incorrect" statement about guys buying their girlfriends one of these catheters for that exact purpose...)

I will find out the name of the company as quickly as possible and post info ASAP (I'm on vacation so it may take a few days...)

Dawn

*Clare* · December 26th, 2005, 10:26 PM

For you guys who think you would like to know more about this - you're so weird it's not true

What's more worrying is that I know some of you :p

OK - I've seen a prototype female external catheter which was taken to the GUE conference but without going in to the sort of detail which will suddenly get us 100,000 hits from Google - to be honest the thought of having to get a brazilian (or worse) everytime I go diving is just

and would put me off using them.

The diving doc that I talked to was a urologist prior to transferring specialties and was relaxed (as was my GP) about my using internal catheterisation. There is apparently a slightly increased risk of infection but they both added that the female urethra is short compared to the male and thus less of a problem. What I (and anyone else) must do is weigh up the benefits of good hydration against the cons of using what is an invasive procedure.

It's not something that I particularly want to do - but the alternatives all seem to have their own problems too. The attitude of the medical profession was encouraging I must admit and made me think of considering it more carefully.

Helen · December 26th, 2005, 10:47 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gledders)

What I (and anyone else) must do is weigh up the benefits of good hydration against the cons of using what is an invasive procedure.

Any guys reading this, sod off......go on....bugger off the lot of you.

Ok, question time....

Do you get shown what to do by the doctor?
If you already tried it, does it hurt?
What if it kinks? For a bloke he gets a wet undersuit and no friends for a while. What about for us?
Does the catheter have a balloon end to hold it in the bladder? If yes, what do you use to inflate it (obviously if you would normally use gas, this wont be possible as it will slip out!)
Is it practical to insert one of these things in a loo cubicle or is it something you have to do at home before you leave the house and drive to the site with it in

And Daz, you are a pervert (and i know you will have read all of the above too). I heard about your rubber chicken.

*Clare* · December 26th, 2005, 10:58 PM

Any guys reading this, sod off......go on....bugger off the lot of you.

Ok, question time....

Do you get shown what to do by the doctor?

Yes - but it's not rocket science.

If you already tried it, does it hurt?

Yes - I've already tried - and no not really (less than pulling off a male version that's for sure - I've heard their screams

).

What if it kinks? For a bloke he gets a wet undersuit and no friends for a while. What about for us?

Actually - we have less of a problem - if the tube is not free flowing then nothing happens - simple.

Does the catheter have a balloon end to hold it in the bladder? If yes, what do you use to inflate it (obviously if you would normally use gas, this wont be possible as it will slip out!)

Yes - and you use sterile water not gas.

Is it practical to insert one of these things in a loo cubicle or is it something you have to do at home before you leave the house and drive to the site with it in

It is not really something that I would want to do in a boat toilet - so would want to 'get ready' at home. It is for this reason that the valves mentioned earlier are needed as, without them, a female catheter is free flowing and that wet undersuit that you mentioned earlier would happen in the car

And Daz, you are a pervert (and i know you will have read all of the above too).

No argument there - who do you think the mate was who helped me track down the relevant bits and pieces .... :p

Helen · December 26th, 2005, 11:05 PM

Any guys reading this, sod off......go on....bugger off the lot of you.

Ok, question time....

Do you get shown what to do by the doctor?

Yes - but it's not rocket science.

Good good. Didnt think it would be, but would hate to get it wrong and have to explain it to a doc.

If you already tried it, does it hurt?

Yes - I've already tried - and no not really (less than pulling off a male version that's for sure - I've heard their screams

).

Yes, doing the bladder dance outside the loo in St Abbs waiting for a certain Scots diver to remove his catheter opened my eyes a bit.

What if it kinks? For a bloke he gets a wet undersuit and no friends for a while. What about for us?

Actually - we have less of a problem - if the tube is not free flowing then nothing happens - simple.

What concerned me a bit was not being able to pee if it is kinked and you *really* need to go. At least a bloke can still go, could you damage the bladder or urethra by not physically being able to go?

Does the catheter have a balloon end to hold it in the bladder? If yes, what do you use to inflate it (obviously if you would normally use gas, this wont be possible as it will slip out!)

Yes - and you use sterile water not gas.

Ok so can you get that from the doc too (and i presume syringes etc to fill it)?

Is it practical to insert one of these things in a loo cubicle or is it something you have to do at home before you leave the house and drive to the site with it in

It is not really something that I would want to do in a boat toilet - so would want to 'get ready' at home. It is for this reason that the valves mentioned earlier are needed as, without them, a female catheter is free flowing and that wet undersuit that you mentioned earlier would happen in the car

Eek. And fingers crossed it dont leak i guess. I suppose you wont need to stop for a wee though.

And Daz, you are a pervert (and i know you will have read all of the above too).

No argument there - who do you think the mate was who helped me track down the relevant bits and pieces .... :p

Why does that not surprise me.

*Clare* · December 26th, 2005, 11:10 PM

What concerned me a bit was not being able to pee if it is kinked and you *really* need to go. At least a bloke can still go, could you damage the bladder or urethra by not physically being able to go?

Nope - in the same way that you do not damage your bladder by having it full. The problem for guys is that they are phsyically peeing agianst an obstruction - we just would'nt go at all - which leaves you with the "I need a wee" feeling - but no more.

Ok so can you get that from the doc too (and i presume syringes etc to fill it)?

They come with the catherters.

It is not really something that I would want to do in a boat toilet - so would want to 'get ready' at home. It is for this reason that the valves mentioned earlier are needed as, without them, a female catheter is free flowing and that wet undersuit that you mentioned earlier would happen in the car

Eek. And fingers crossed it dont leak i guess. I suppose you wont need to stop for a wee though.

Nope - it can;t leak - but you would still need to stop for a wee. (you could do it standing up though

)

TMI??? Thought so :D

LCF · December 27th, 2005, 12:34 AM

Note that catheters are sized, so it IS actually possible to leak around them if too small a catheter is used.

Sterile precautions (prepping with disinfectant, wearing gloves) are required for minimizing infection risk. It's not a big deal, but it has to be taught.

The only reason to require sterile water to fill the balloon is in case it bursts -- clear tap water would probably be fine.

You can put a plug in the end of a catheter to avoid urine flow or leakage, for example while driving to a dive site. But then again, I don't know what's involved in hooking one up to the P valve before diving.

The big difference between an internal and an external catheter (other than the infection risk, which surprisingly isn't all THAT different) is one preserves the use of the sphincter to control when and at what rate urine flows (the external). The other is essentially an open conduit between the bladder and the outside world, and control of flow therefore has to be from the valve itself.

There are a lot of people out there with neurologic or urologic conditions that require that they self-catheterize to pass urine. They do it routinely, and they do have a somewhat higher risk of infection, but it is not unacceptable.

December 26th, 2005, 08:10 PM	#13 (permalink)
Haglund(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 13	Hi Dawn! Coming to sweden soon, or are you already here? Regarding the glue on external female catheters, is it not the one A-M shows in the link in her reply? These seems quite nice (even though they require some extent of hair reduction :p) but will probably be an expensive option. But, it might be worth it for the longer deco dives, I really don't fancy the dipers... Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawn) Hi Clare, In the past I have always used adult diapers and they work just fine (max in-water time using these was around 5.5 hours). Always entertaining to explain why you have a case of these at home to a non-diver date or visitor...:p I also heard about a new style of "glue-on", external catheters they are developing for women. Sorry if this is TMI, but it definitely makes sense that certain areas have to be shaved in order to use this effectively and without too much pain. There have been some women who have tested this and said it is wonderful, but I don't know when they will be made available to the public (they may be already...) Hope this helps! Happy Holidays, Dawn __________________ Every thought that enters your mind, is not required to exit through your mouth...

December 26th, 2005, 08:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
Haglund(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 13	Looking forward to your research results... Quote: (Originally Posted by Dawn) Sorry - I made it sound like the glue-on, external catheter idea was new in itself. I know versions of these have been tested for a while now (I tested a prototype in 1999). This is a new style of external catheter that is supposed to work very well, fit very well, and be easy to put on/take off (minus the shaving/waxing that is necessary....I think one of the guys I know made a "politically incorrect" statement about guys buying their girlfriends one of these catheters for that exact purpose...) I will find out the name of the company as quickly as possible and post info ASAP (I'm on vacation so it may take a few days...) Dawn __________________ Every thought that enters your mind, is not required to exit through your mouth...

December 26th, 2005, 10:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
Clare(Offline) GUE Instructor Site Admin Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,930	For you guys who think you would like to know more about this - you're so weird it's not true What's more worrying is that I know some of you :p OK - I've seen a prototype female external catheter which was taken to the GUE conference but without going in to the sort of detail which will suddenly get us 100,000 hits from Google - to be honest the thought of having to get a brazilian (or worse) everytime I go diving is just and would put me off using them. The diving doc that I talked to was a urologist prior to transferring specialties and was relaxed (as was my GP) about my using internal catheterisation. There is apparently a slightly increased risk of infection but they both added that the female urethra is short compared to the male and thus less of a problem. What I (and anyone else) must do is weigh up the benefits of good hydration against the cons of using what is an invasive procedure. It's not something that I particularly want to do - but the alternatives all seem to have their own problems too. The attitude of the medical profession was encouraging I must admit and made me think of considering it more carefully. __________________ Clare . "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions....Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great." Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk Last edited by Clare; December 26th, 2005 at 10:47 PM..

December 26th, 2005, 10:47 PM	#16 (permalink)
Helen(Offline) "Like a diver... only shorter" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Scapa Flow, Orkney Posts: 102	Quote: (Originally Posted by Gledders) What I (and anyone else) must do is weigh up the benefits of good hydration against the cons of using what is an invasive procedure. Any guys reading this, sod off......go on....bugger off the lot of you. Ok, question time.... Do you get shown what to do by the doctor? If you already tried it, does it hurt? What if it kinks? For a bloke he gets a wet undersuit and no friends for a while. What about for us? Does the catheter have a balloon end to hold it in the bladder? If yes, what do you use to inflate it (obviously if you would normally use gas, this wont be possible as it will slip out!) Is it practical to insert one of these things in a loo cubicle or is it something you have to do at home before you leave the house and drive to the site with it in And Daz, you are a pervert (and i know you will have read all of the above too). I heard about your rubber chicken. __________________ You can dive any way you want to. Just don't expect me to be down there with you....

December 26th, 2005, 10:58 PM	#17 (permalink)
Clare(Offline) GUE Instructor Site Admin Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,930	Any guys reading this, sod off......go on....bugger off the lot of you. Ok, question time.... Do you get shown what to do by the doctor? Yes - but it's not rocket science. If you already tried it, does it hurt? Yes - I've already tried - and no not really (less than pulling off a male version that's for sure - I've heard their screams ). What if it kinks? For a bloke he gets a wet undersuit and no friends for a while. What about for us? Actually - we have less of a problem - if the tube is not free flowing then nothing happens - simple. Does the catheter have a balloon end to hold it in the bladder? If yes, what do you use to inflate it (obviously if you would normally use gas, this wont be possible as it will slip out!) Yes - and you use sterile water not gas. Is it practical to insert one of these things in a loo cubicle or is it something you have to do at home before you leave the house and drive to the site with it in It is not really something that I would want to do in a boat toilet - so would want to 'get ready' at home. It is for this reason that the valves mentioned earlier are needed as, without them, a female catheter is free flowing and that wet undersuit that you mentioned earlier would happen in the car And Daz, you are a pervert (and i know you will have read all of the above too). No argument there - who do you think the mate was who helped me track down the relevant bits and pieces .... :p __________________ Clare . "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions....Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great." Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk

December 26th, 2005, 07:57 PM	#11 (permalink)
daz(Offline) "Don't worry I'm approved" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bristol Posts: 212	Quote: (Originally Posted by Gledders) Right you guys - I can see you looking at this thread - bet you wish you hadn't You have no idea However on the plus side I feel I have a pretty good grasp of the theory on this subject. Now if anyone would like to volunteer so I can get a grip on the practical side of things that would be great. :D Daz

December 26th, 2005, 08:06 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dawn(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 155	Sorry - I made it sound like the glue-on, external catheter idea was new in itself. I know versions of these have been tested for a while now (I tested a prototype in 1999). This is a new style of external catheter that is supposed to work very well, fit very well, and be easy to put on/take off (minus the shaving/waxing that is necessary....I think one of the guys I know made a "politically incorrect" statement about guys buying their girlfriends one of these catheters for that exact purpose...) I will find out the name of the company as quickly as possible and post info ASAP (I'm on vacation so it may take a few days...) Dawn

December 26th, 2005, 11:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
Helen(Offline) "Like a diver... only shorter" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Scapa Flow, Orkney Posts: 102	Any guys reading this, sod off......go on....bugger off the lot of you. Ok, question time.... Do you get shown what to do by the doctor? Yes - but it's not rocket science. Good good. Didnt think it would be, but would hate to get it wrong and have to explain it to a doc. If you already tried it, does it hurt? Yes - I've already tried - and no not really (less than pulling off a male version that's for sure - I've heard their screams ). Yes, doing the bladder dance outside the loo in St Abbs waiting for a certain Scots diver to remove his catheter opened my eyes a bit. What if it kinks? For a bloke he gets a wet undersuit and no friends for a while. What about for us? Actually - we have less of a problem - if the tube is not free flowing then nothing happens - simple. What concerned me a bit was not being able to pee if it is kinked and you really need to go. At least a bloke can still go, could you damage the bladder or urethra by not physically being able to go? Does the catheter have a balloon end to hold it in the bladder? If yes, what do you use to inflate it (obviously if you would normally use gas, this wont be possible as it will slip out!) Yes - and you use sterile water not gas. Ok so can you get that from the doc too (and i presume syringes etc to fill it)? Is it practical to insert one of these things in a loo cubicle or is it something you have to do at home before you leave the house and drive to the site with it in It is not really something that I would want to do in a boat toilet - so would want to 'get ready' at home. It is for this reason that the valves mentioned earlier are needed as, without them, a female catheter is free flowing and that wet undersuit that you mentioned earlier would happen in the car Eek. And fingers crossed it dont leak i guess. I suppose you wont need to stop for a wee though. And Daz, you are a pervert (and i know you will have read all of the above too). No argument there - who do you think the mate was who helped me track down the relevant bits and pieces .... :p Why does that not surprise me. __________________ You can dive any way you want to. Just don't expect me to be down there with you....

December 26th, 2005, 11:10 PM	#19 (permalink)
Clare(Offline) GUE Instructor Site Admin Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,930	What concerned me a bit was not being able to pee if it is kinked and you really need to go. At least a bloke can still go, could you damage the bladder or urethra by not physically being able to go? Nope - in the same way that you do not damage your bladder by having it full. The problem for guys is that they are phsyically peeing agianst an obstruction - we just would'nt go at all - which leaves you with the "I need a wee" feeling - but no more. Ok so can you get that from the doc too (and i presume syringes etc to fill it)? They come with the catherters. It is not really something that I would want to do in a boat toilet - so would want to 'get ready' at home. It is for this reason that the valves mentioned earlier are needed as, without them, a female catheter is free flowing and that wet undersuit that you mentioned earlier would happen in the car Eek. And fingers crossed it dont leak i guess. I suppose you wont need to stop for a wee though. Nope - it can;t leak - but you would still need to stop for a wee. (you could do it standing up though ) TMI??? Thought so :D __________________ Clare . "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions....Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great." Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk

December 27th, 2005, 12:34 AM	#20 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 815	Note that catheters are sized, so it IS actually possible to leak around them if too small a catheter is used. Sterile precautions (prepping with disinfectant, wearing gloves) are required for minimizing infection risk. It's not a big deal, but it has to be taught. The only reason to require sterile water to fill the balloon is in case it bursts -- clear tap water would probably be fine. You can put a plug in the end of a catheter to avoid urine flow or leakage, for example while driving to a dive site. But then again, I don't know what's involved in hooking one up to the P valve before diving. The big difference between an internal and an external catheter (other than the infection risk, which surprisingly isn't all THAT different) is one preserves the use of the sphincter to control when and at what rate urine flows (the external). The other is essentially an open conduit between the bladder and the outside world, and control of flow therefore has to be from the valve itself. There are a lot of people out there with neurologic or urologic conditions that require that they self-catheterize to pass urine. They do it routinely, and they do have a somewhat higher risk of infection, but it is not unacceptable.