One-armed SMB Setup?

mwhities · November 27th, 2008, 04:36 AM

I can't for the life of me find the posts (forget which board) that a finger spool can be clipped a certain way so the bolt snap doesn't roll off. I believe Lynne (or someone) had posted a link to another forum showing how someone ran their spool's loop through a hole on the spool and then clipped the line to another hole with the double ender.

Well, with the talks about how I might deploy a SMB under water and whether or not I should have it pre-rigged or not, I think I figured out pre-rigged the best way.

So I spent a good twenty minutes or so looking at my SMB, finger spool and double ender. Wrapped it this way, that way and many other ways. The link that was provided in the phantom post (as described above) really helped me figure out how I am going to do this.

As you can see, I pre-rigged the line through the SS eye and tightened it up. I then pass the two lines (in the loop) through one of the holes in the spool and clipped the line with the double ender to one of the holes of the spool. This way the double ender doesn't roll off and if it was to roll off, the double ender snap would hopefully stay on the line and it would only be lose and not unwind the line.

Then if it tried to unwind, it'd look something like this.

Hopefully I'm not repeating something already known, if I am, I apologize. I just want to figure out something so I can be safer for my team.

I have yet to try it in the water but, I plan to go diving the Dec 6th and 7th. I'll add a report here in this thread about how it goes. Maybe a video too.

Michael

caverkevin · November 27th, 2008, 05:43 PM

I would look at adding a loop of bungee around the spool. To helps to hold the spool in place while you inflate the bag. help prevent against dropping the spool.

A small loop in the end of the line around the bag's d-ring will make that easier to handle.

Cheers!!

Kevin

Captain caveman · November 27th, 2008, 06:31 PM

Ive had mine set up like this for a year now and it really comes handy to shoot. I just unclip fill the bag and let to spool out. There not a better way to do it. But the Halcyon bag you have a single end clip on the bag, I use the bags clip to hold it to the spool. I just carry a double ender on my upper right d-ring.

mwhities · December 4th, 2008, 06:11 AM

I have video of how I'll thread the spool line through the dring of the SMB. I see my issue now is clipping the double ender back onto the spool after I deploy the SMB.

Also, I'll have to try it in the water but, looks like recovering my reg as the SMB floats up will be an issue.

Oh well, one down, many more to go.

Ohh, the video is here:

Another attempt at a SMB deployment. on Vimeo

(Bad quality and make sure you look at the others as well.)

Michael

GoDiva · December 4th, 2008, 10:58 AM

Looks pretty hard and fiddly, but I am sure you will get it to work, as you are obviously putting a lot of practice into it. Looks a bit funny how you seem to "magic" the smb and spool out of your back side, with the Christmas tree in the background :-D
Some things that came to mind (and are open to discussion).
_ask what you're instructor thinks about "pre-threaded SMB's". On my T1 this was not a problem, so i could just pull the SMB and spool, and immediately start shooting in stead of assembling (possibly with a spare spool stowed somewhere, if your instructor insists on a loose one somewhere). I believe the biggest reason for the assembling part of the job, in particular in fundamentals, is getting your mind of buoyancy for a longer period of time, getting you to concentrate on other things during this exercise (= task loading). In your case the whole process is hard enough as it is, without extra distractions. Certainly for non-course diving this seems like a good option.
_about your reg retrieval: I could not see how your smb needed to be inflated, I presume an oral inflate one would be easiest for you. What you might consider (and again, you might discuss this with your isntructor) is clipping of your primary for inflation (so it does not dangle loose, liable to get caught in smb, spool,...). If you fine tune the rigging of your back up, it should be possible to pick it up with your mouth, without the need of hands. This way you can drop the reg to inflate the smb, possibly repeat if necessary, and then let go of the bag without having to use your hand for the reg. (Of course I have never tried this option, and it is just theoretical, but it might give you something to work on).
_Finally: how much do you need to do yourself, and how much can be "team work". Do you really need to be able to lock the spool with the double ender after deployment? I agree it is easier to handle when locked, but for longer stops your buddy might be able to help out on this. Definitely for longer or shallow stops this seems like a good option to me. Certainly from 6 or 9 meters you might as well leave the spool clipped, and just let the smb dangle in front of you, or take hold of the line. Then work your way up the line and only roll it up at the surface. (In lakes etc this should work fine. Might be less practical in strong currents, but I could not say for sure.)
Take into account that when moving up gradually you are winding in the smb during a lot of the time. Doing 3m/minute you probably just would not have time to clip the spool (I do no always do it either), or it would take so much of your concentration that you could not help your team in other ways (like running deco/stops, awareness etc). Of course practising to see whether you can get a satisfyingly usable and fast way of doing this one handed is never wrong!

Hope these comments help you along, and that other people might give some feedback on things I might have missed during my thought process.

TobyFish · December 4th, 2008, 01:31 PM

I have had some success with inflating orally without removing the reg. put the SMB nipple in the left corner of the mouth, put the tongue in the reg orificie to block it and move the reg round to the right of the mouth and blow. It's sometimes hard to form a seal. perhaps you should consider filling the bag from your reg exhaust instead. That way you never need spit out the reg.

If you must spit the reg then clipping off and moving to backup may work. It does mean that your buddy can no longer take the reg from your mouth in an emergency but it also means that if you have to shoot the bag post OOG then your procedure is unchanged from normal

as far as team work is concerned I think shooting the bag is something you must be able to accomplish solo, as in a case of team separation you may need to advertise your location topside. although in such an emergency you could just drop the spool and ascend the line without spooling in. i wouldn't rely on being able to do this on all dives though

Jack · December 4th, 2008, 01:37 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by mwhities)

I have video of how I'll thread the spool line through the dring of the SMB. I see my issue now is clipping the double ender back onto the spool after I deploy the SMB.

Also, I'll have to try it in the water but, looks like recovering my reg as the SMB floats up will be an issue.

Oh well, one down, many more to go.

Ohh, the video is here:

Another attempt at a SMB deployment. on Vimeo

(Bad quality and make sure you look at the others as well.)

Michael

Michael,re recovering reg, practice dipping your chin to get back up reg then when bag is up and spool secured switch to primary.

mwhities · December 4th, 2008, 03:35 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by GoDiva)

Looks pretty hard and fiddly, but I am sure you will get it to work, as you are obviously putting a lot of practice into it. Looks a bit funny how you seem to "magic" the smb and spool out of your back side, with the Christmas tree in the background :-D
Some things that came to mind (and are open to discussion).
_ask what you're instructor thinks about "pre-threaded SMB's". On my T1 this was not a problem, so i could just pull the SMB and spool, and immediately start shooting in stead of assembling (possibly with a spare spool stowed somewhere, if your instructor insists on a loose one somewhere). I believe the biggest reason for the assembling part of the job, in particular in fundamentals, is getting your mind of buoyancy for a longer period of time, getting you to concentrate on other things during this exercise (= task loading). In your case the whole process is hard enough as it is, without extra distractions. Certainly for non-course diving this seems like a good option.
_about your reg retrieval: I could not see how your smb needed to be inflated, I presume an oral inflate one would be easiest for you. What you might consider (and again, you might discuss this with your isntructor) is clipping of your primary for inflation (so it does not dangle loose, liable to get caught in smb, spool,...). If you fine tune the rigging of your back up, it should be possible to pick it up with your mouth, without the need of hands. This way you can drop the reg to inflate the smb, possibly repeat if necessary, and then let go of the bag without having to use your hand for the reg. (Of course I have never tried this option, and it is just theoretical, but it might give you something to work on).
_Finally: how much do you need to do yourself, and how much can be "team work". Do you really need to be able to lock the spool with the double ender after deployment? I agree it is easier to handle when locked, but for longer stops your buddy might be able to help out on this. Definitely for longer or shallow stops this seems like a good option to me. Certainly from 6 or 9 meters you might as well leave the spool clipped, and just let the smb dangle in front of you, or take hold of the line. Then work your way up the line and only roll it up at the surface. (In lakes etc this should work fine. Might be less practical in strong currents, but I could not say for sure.)
Take into account that when moving up gradually you are winding in the smb during a lot of the time. Doing 3m/minute you probably just would not have time to clip the spool (I do no always do it either), or it would take so much of your concentration that you could not help your team in other ways (like running deco/stops, awareness etc). Of course practising to see whether you can get a satisfyingly usable and fast way of doing this one handed is never wrong!

Hope these comments help you along, and that other people might give some feedback on things I might have missed during my thought
process.

I am quiet magical. :P

My instructor already stated that he requires the "threading" of the double ender (DE) throgh the dring of the SMB. It helps with line control for future classes. (Hope he doesn't read this.) After class, I'll have it pre-rigged.

That is also what he said. To try and throw off buoyancy, to keep you thinking about everything to make sure you can do it.

That make sense. If anything, switch regs (clipping off the primary) and using the back up so when I do spit it out, it won't be an entanglement hazard. I'll try configuring my back up to enable myself to grab it only with my mouth. That'd solve that issue.

Well, honestly, I'd like to be able to do it all for myself. I know I'm in a team and team members help out but, I'd still feel better and gain more confidence if I'm able to do it myself.

I figure instead of clipping off, I should be able to keep the spool in my hand and still operate my inflator and or other items. This will be fun to try with a goodman handle in my hand. Uhm.. I guess I can clip the light off.

This helps a lot, it keeps me thinking of other things to try and use.

Thanks,

Michael

mwhities · December 4th, 2008, 03:40 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by TobyFish)

I have had some success with inflating orally without removing the reg. put the SMB nipple in the left corner of the mouth, put the tongue in the reg orificie to block it and move the reg round to the right of the mouth and blow. It's sometimes hard to form a seal. perhaps you should consider filling the bag from your reg exhaust instead. That way you never need spit out the reg.

If you must spit the reg then clipping off and moving to backup may work. It does mean that your buddy can no longer take the reg from your mouth in an emergency but it also means that if you have to shoot the bag post OOG then your procedure is unchanged from normal

as far as team work is concerned I think shooting the bag is something you must be able to accomplish solo, as in a case of team separation you may need to advertise your location topside. although in such an emergency you could just drop the spool and ascend the line without spooling in. i wouldn't rely on being able to do this on all dives though

Never thought about that. I'll need to try it and see (above water for now) how it works. I have the DSS SMB which is an oral inflate SMB but, I have the DAN 6' SMB that allows for the use of the reg exhaust.

I believe that clipping the primary off would possibly be the safest way, hopefully my buddy doesn't experience an OOG while I'm doing it though.

I agree, I NEED to be able to do this by myself and as efficiently as I can. No telling when I might be by myself (Hope never..) and will need to deco/mark whee I am.

Thanks,

Michael

mwhities · December 4th, 2008, 03:41 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jack)

Michael,re recovering reg, practice dipping your chin to get back up reg then when bag is up and spool secured switch to primary.

Definitely on my list of things to try. Should I be able to do it above water too? I know I have it to long right now but, I can easily adjust it.

Thanks for the suggestion,

Michael

November 27th, 2008, 04:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
mwhities(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 38	I can't for the life of me find the posts (forget which board) that a finger spool can be clipped a certain way so the bolt snap doesn't roll off. I believe Lynne (or someone) had posted a link to another forum showing how someone ran their spool's loop through a hole on the spool and then clipped the line to another hole with the double ender. Well, with the talks about how I might deploy a SMB under water and whether or not I should have it pre-rigged or not, I think I figured out pre-rigged the best way. So I spent a good twenty minutes or so looking at my SMB, finger spool and double ender. Wrapped it this way, that way and many other ways. The link that was provided in the phantom post (as described above) really helped me figure out how I am going to do this. As you can see, I pre-rigged the line through the SS eye and tightened it up. I then pass the two lines (in the loop) through one of the holes in the spool and clipped the line with the double ender to one of the holes of the spool. This way the double ender doesn't roll off and if it was to roll off, the double ender snap would hopefully stay on the line and it would only be lose and not unwind the line. Then if it tried to unwind, it'd look something like this. Hopefully I'm not repeating something already known, if I am, I apologize. I just want to figure out something so I can be safer for my team. I have yet to try it in the water but, I plan to go diving the Dec 6th and 7th. I'll add a report here in this thread about how it goes. Maybe a video too. Michael Last edited by mwhities; November 27th, 2008 at 04:46 AM..

December 4th, 2008, 10:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
GoDiva(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 733	Looks pretty hard and fiddly, but I am sure you will get it to work, as you are obviously putting a lot of practice into it. Looks a bit funny how you seem to "magic" the smb and spool out of your back side, with the Christmas tree in the background :-D Some things that came to mind (and are open to discussion). _ask what you're instructor thinks about "pre-threaded SMB's". On my T1 this was not a problem, so i could just pull the SMB and spool, and immediately start shooting in stead of assembling (possibly with a spare spool stowed somewhere, if your instructor insists on a loose one somewhere). I believe the biggest reason for the assembling part of the job, in particular in fundamentals, is getting your mind of buoyancy for a longer period of time, getting you to concentrate on other things during this exercise (= task loading). In your case the whole process is hard enough as it is, without extra distractions. Certainly for non-course diving this seems like a good option. _about your reg retrieval: I could not see how your smb needed to be inflated, I presume an oral inflate one would be easiest for you. What you might consider (and again, you might discuss this with your isntructor) is clipping of your primary for inflation (so it does not dangle loose, liable to get caught in smb, spool,...). If you fine tune the rigging of your back up, it should be possible to pick it up with your mouth, without the need of hands. This way you can drop the reg to inflate the smb, possibly repeat if necessary, and then let go of the bag without having to use your hand for the reg. (Of course I have never tried this option, and it is just theoretical, but it might give you something to work on). _Finally: how much do you need to do yourself, and how much can be "team work". Do you really need to be able to lock the spool with the double ender after deployment? I agree it is easier to handle when locked, but for longer stops your buddy might be able to help out on this. Definitely for longer or shallow stops this seems like a good option to me. Certainly from 6 or 9 meters you might as well leave the spool clipped, and just let the smb dangle in front of you, or take hold of the line. Then work your way up the line and only roll it up at the surface. (In lakes etc this should work fine. Might be less practical in strong currents, but I could not say for sure.) Take into account that when moving up gradually you are winding in the smb during a lot of the time. Doing 3m/minute you probably just would not have time to clip the spool (I do no always do it either), or it would take so much of your concentration that you could not help your team in other ways (like running deco/stops, awareness etc). Of course practising to see whether you can get a satisfyingly usable and fast way of doing this one handed is never wrong! Hope these comments help you along, and that other people might give some feedback on things I might have missed during my thought process. __________________ "Miss Dodgy-Pockets" or "Miss Lime-Green, Clear-Skirt Mask"

December 4th, 2008, 01:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
TobyFish (Online) Fine Upstanding Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Curacao Posts: 1,669	I have had some success with inflating orally without removing the reg. put the SMB nipple in the left corner of the mouth, put the tongue in the reg orificie to block it and move the reg round to the right of the mouth and blow. It's sometimes hard to form a seal. perhaps you should consider filling the bag from your reg exhaust instead. That way you never need spit out the reg. If you must spit the reg then clipping off and moving to backup may work. It does mean that your buddy can no longer take the reg from your mouth in an emergency but it also means that if you have to shoot the bag post OOG then your procedure is unchanged from normal as far as team work is concerned I think shooting the bag is something you must be able to accomplish solo, as in a case of team separation you may need to advertise your location topside. although in such an emergency you could just drop the spool and ascend the line without spooling in. i wouldn't rely on being able to do this on all dives though __________________ Rude-boy Volvo "Gangsta Rollin' in me nine-six-oh"

December 4th, 2008, 01:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jack(Offline) Paddy Exley Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Dublin Posts: 209	Quote: (Originally Posted by mwhities) I have video of how I'll thread the spool line through the dring of the SMB. I see my issue now is clipping the double ender back onto the spool after I deploy the SMB. Also, I'll have to try it in the water but, looks like recovering my reg as the SMB floats up will be an issue. Oh well, one down, many more to go. Ohh, the video is here: Another attempt at a SMB deployment. on Vimeo (Bad quality and make sure you look at the others as well.) Michael Michael,re recovering reg, practice dipping your chin to get back up reg then when bag is up and spool secured switch to primary. __________________ Jack

November 27th, 2008, 05:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
caverkevin(Offline) Doing It Caverkevin Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Boca Raton & Fort White, FL Posts: 477	I would look at adding a loop of bungee around the spool. To helps to hold the spool in place while you inflate the bag. help prevent against dropping the spool. A small loop in the end of the line around the bag's d-ring will make that easier to handle. Cheers!! Kevin

November 27th, 2008, 06:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
Captain caveman(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago / Great Lakes Posts: 28	Ive had mine set up like this for a year now and it really comes handy to shoot. I just unclip fill the bag and let to spool out. There not a better way to do it. But the Halcyon bag you have a single end clip on the bag, I use the bags clip to hold it to the spool. I just carry a double ender on my upper right d-ring.

December 4th, 2008, 06:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
mwhities(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 38	I have video of how I'll thread the spool line through the dring of the SMB. I see my issue now is clipping the double ender back onto the spool after I deploy the SMB. Also, I'll have to try it in the water but, looks like recovering my reg as the SMB floats up will be an issue. Oh well, one down, many more to go. Ohh, the video is here: Another attempt at a SMB deployment. on Vimeo (Bad quality and make sure you look at the others as well.) Michael

December 4th, 2008, 03:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
mwhities(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 38	Quote: (Originally Posted by GoDiva) Looks pretty hard and fiddly, but I am sure you will get it to work, as you are obviously putting a lot of practice into it. Looks a bit funny how you seem to "magic" the smb and spool out of your back side, with the Christmas tree in the background :-D Some things that came to mind (and are open to discussion). _ask what you're instructor thinks about "pre-threaded SMB's". On my T1 this was not a problem, so i could just pull the SMB and spool, and immediately start shooting in stead of assembling (possibly with a spare spool stowed somewhere, if your instructor insists on a loose one somewhere). I believe the biggest reason for the assembling part of the job, in particular in fundamentals, is getting your mind of buoyancy for a longer period of time, getting you to concentrate on other things during this exercise (= task loading). In your case the whole process is hard enough as it is, without extra distractions. Certainly for non-course diving this seems like a good option. _about your reg retrieval: I could not see how your smb needed to be inflated, I presume an oral inflate one would be easiest for you. What you might consider (and again, you might discuss this with your isntructor) is clipping of your primary for inflation (so it does not dangle loose, liable to get caught in smb, spool,...). If you fine tune the rigging of your back up, it should be possible to pick it up with your mouth, without the need of hands. This way you can drop the reg to inflate the smb, possibly repeat if necessary, and then let go of the bag without having to use your hand for the reg. (Of course I have never tried this option, and it is just theoretical, but it might give you something to work on). _Finally: how much do you need to do yourself, and how much can be "team work". Do you really need to be able to lock the spool with the double ender after deployment? I agree it is easier to handle when locked, but for longer stops your buddy might be able to help out on this. Definitely for longer or shallow stops this seems like a good option to me. Certainly from 6 or 9 meters you might as well leave the spool clipped, and just let the smb dangle in front of you, or take hold of the line. Then work your way up the line and only roll it up at the surface. (In lakes etc this should work fine. Might be less practical in strong currents, but I could not say for sure.) Take into account that when moving up gradually you are winding in the smb during a lot of the time. Doing 3m/minute you probably just would not have time to clip the spool (I do no always do it either), or it would take so much of your concentration that you could not help your team in other ways (like running deco/stops, awareness etc). Of course practising to see whether you can get a satisfyingly usable and fast way of doing this one handed is never wrong! Hope these comments help you along, and that other people might give some feedback on things I might have missed during my thought process. I am quiet magical. :P My instructor already stated that he requires the "threading" of the double ender (DE) throgh the dring of the SMB. It helps with line control for future classes. (Hope he doesn't read this.) After class, I'll have it pre-rigged. That is also what he said. To try and throw off buoyancy, to keep you thinking about everything to make sure you can do it. That make sense. If anything, switch regs (clipping off the primary) and using the back up so when I do spit it out, it won't be an entanglement hazard. I'll try configuring my back up to enable myself to grab it only with my mouth. That'd solve that issue. Well, honestly, I'd like to be able to do it all for myself. I know I'm in a team and team members help out but, I'd still feel better and gain more confidence if I'm able to do it myself. I figure instead of clipping off, I should be able to keep the spool in my hand and still operate my inflator and or other items. This will be fun to try with a goodman handle in my hand. Uhm.. I guess I can clip the light off. This helps a lot, it keeps me thinking of other things to try and use. Thanks, Michael

December 4th, 2008, 03:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
mwhities(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 38	Quote: (Originally Posted by TobyFish) I have had some success with inflating orally without removing the reg. put the SMB nipple in the left corner of the mouth, put the tongue in the reg orificie to block it and move the reg round to the right of the mouth and blow. It's sometimes hard to form a seal. perhaps you should consider filling the bag from your reg exhaust instead. That way you never need spit out the reg. If you must spit the reg then clipping off and moving to backup may work. It does mean that your buddy can no longer take the reg from your mouth in an emergency but it also means that if you have to shoot the bag post OOG then your procedure is unchanged from normal as far as team work is concerned I think shooting the bag is something you must be able to accomplish solo, as in a case of team separation you may need to advertise your location topside. although in such an emergency you could just drop the spool and ascend the line without spooling in. i wouldn't rely on being able to do this on all dives though Never thought about that. I'll need to try it and see (above water for now) how it works. I have the DSS SMB which is an oral inflate SMB but, I have the DAN 6' SMB that allows for the use of the reg exhaust. I believe that clipping the primary off would possibly be the safest way, hopefully my buddy doesn't experience an OOG while I'm doing it though. I agree, I NEED to be able to do this by myself and as efficiently as I can. No telling when I might be by myself (Hope never..) and will need to deco/mark whee I am. Thanks, Michael

December 4th, 2008, 03:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
mwhities(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 38	Quote: (Originally Posted by Jack) Michael,re recovering reg, practice dipping your chin to get back up reg then when bag is up and spool secured switch to primary. Definitely on my list of things to try. Should I be able to do it above water too? I know I have it to long right now but, I can easily adjust it. Thanks for the suggestion, Michael