Problems with single tank configuration (eclipse + 12 l steel)

g-west · August 12th, 2006, 09:03 PM

The distance between tank and the eclipse 40 lbs wing seems rather shortly. The knee of the inflation tube colides with the shoulder of the tank. So the wing shirks into my neck when inflated fully. I use two DS4 on a 12 l steel tank with aircon multi valve.

Also the hoses which cross (backup-regulator hose and inflator hose ) dent the wing.

By the way what is the right height of cylinder mounting. Do I have to feel the first stages when I recline my head fully?

Maybe you can have a look at the photos I took.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21299277@N00/

I am grateful for any advice.

Martin Burnard · August 13th, 2006, 10:49 AM

It's not a set up I have seen before, but I do like the idea.

Thanks for the photos, sorry I can't help.

**jb2cool** · August 13th, 2006, 10:51 AM

The cylinder looks like it is about the right height.

Can you reach back and get to your valves though. That valve looks like it will make that hard by pushing the knobs further away from you.

You really want the dustance between the cylinder and the wing to be as small as possible so that the weight of the cylinder is as bear to your body as possible. This makes you more stable in the water.

Mal Bridgeman · August 13th, 2006, 11:04 AM

Just a thought but rather than have the first stages horizontal as though they were on a twinset, would it route neater if you had them inclined at say 45 deg? i.e. as you look at the 1st stages, rotate the left one 45 deg anti clockwise and the right one 45 deg clockwise?

Rgrds
Mal

Joe Hesketh · August 13th, 2006, 05:45 PM

I think your problems stem from that multi-valve thing. Normally, I'd place the cam bands on the STA in the same place as the bands on a set of doubles (ie the top band right on the break of the tank shoulder).

A normal valve has the DIN opening about another inch or so higher than your multi-thing (which put the openings, and hence the first stages almost immediately above the tank neck).

In order to allow enough room below your first stages for all the hoses, etc. you've had to move the cam bands down which is why the elbow of the inflator is sticking into the tank - normally it would be above the tank.

I experimented with an h-valve for a while, and if you're doing this to allow you to switch back and forth between a single and doubles rig, then I admit, there is some benefit in the ease this brings. In the end though I found it easier to have a dedicated reg for single tank with a single first stage. If the dive suggests you need redundancy of first stages, you need a set of doubles not just another knob.

We also like to think of kit as a team resource. Having odd configurations tends to break down that benefit somewhat.

HTH

Joe

TobinGeorge · August 13th, 2006, 05:52 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by g-west)

The distance between tank and the eclipse 40 lbs wing seems rather shortly. The knee of the inflation tube colides with the shoulder of the tank. So the wing shirks into my neck when inflated fully. I use two DS4 on a 12 l steel tank with aircon multi valve.

Also the hoses which cross (backup-regulator hose and inflator hose ) dent the wing.

By the way what is the right height of cylinder mounting. Do I have to feel the first stages when I recline my head fully?

Maybe you can have a look at the photos I took.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21299277@N00/

I am grateful for any advice.

You have some mighty strange tank valves "over there"

Tobin

g-west · August 20th, 2006, 11:12 PM

I have to apologize for the late answer.

It is not easy to reach the valves. But it works.
45° anti-/clockwise does not provide more space. What a pity!

Here in northern Germany there are dive sites like the lake Hemmoor where you have to use 2 first stages.

D7 would be better, but I suppose the weight is much higher than a single 12 L tank.

I think I have to speak with the guys of Baltic Dive Center / Kiel for a better solution.

I will let you know if I have found something better.

Bye

Davidm · August 29th, 2006, 04:02 PM

Have you taken a look at the Beauchat Y valve? I have them on my single 95's with DS 4's and they work pretty nice, although you need to replace the hard plastic knobs that come with them.

g-west · August 30th, 2006, 10:09 AM

Thanks for your advice. I got a new valve from the local dive store.
Here it is ...

Edit: In the Fundumentals we remoted the plastic chassis of the manometer. It was easier than I thought.

g-west · August 30th, 2006, 10:14 AM

here a 2nd pic...

August 13th, 2006, 10:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
Martin Burnard(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 614	It's not a set up I have seen before, but I do like the idea. Thanks for the photos, sorry I can't help. __________________ I once enjoyed a sado-masachistic frenzy of total tintintabulation leading to a state of metampsychosis... or did I make that up? www.bananafrogcars.co.uk

August 13th, 2006, 10:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Sorry for being a dick Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 974	The cylinder looks like it is about the right height. Can you reach back and get to your valves though. That valve looks like it will make that hard by pushing the knobs further away from you. You really want the dustance between the cylinder and the wing to be as small as possible so that the weight of the cylinder is as bear to your body as possible. This makes you more stable in the water. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com

August 13th, 2006, 11:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mal Bridgeman(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 703	Just a thought but rather than have the first stages horizontal as though they were on a twinset, would it route neater if you had them inclined at say 45 deg? i.e. as you look at the 1st stages, rotate the left one 45 deg anti clockwise and the right one 45 deg clockwise? Rgrds Mal __________________ Opinions and beliefs are correct at the time of posting but are subject to change without any notice or obligation on the part of the author.

August 13th, 2006, 05:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
TobinGeorge (Online) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 687	Quote: (Originally Posted by g-west) The distance between tank and the eclipse 40 lbs wing seems rather shortly. The knee of the inflation tube colides with the shoulder of the tank. So the wing shirks into my neck when inflated fully. I use two DS4 on a 12 l steel tank with aircon multi valve. Also the hoses which cross (backup-regulator hose and inflator hose ) dent the wing. By the way what is the right height of cylinder mounting. Do I have to feel the first stages when I recline my head fully? Maybe you can have a look at the photos I took. http://www.flickr.com/photos/21299277@N00/ I am grateful for any advice. You have some mighty strange tank valves "over there" Tobin __________________ http://www.deepseasupply.com

August 12th, 2006, 09:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
g-west(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Kiel / Germany Posts: 129	The distance between tank and the eclipse 40 lbs wing seems rather shortly. The knee of the inflation tube colides with the shoulder of the tank. So the wing shirks into my neck when inflated fully. I use two DS4 on a 12 l steel tank with aircon multi valve. Also the hoses which cross (backup-regulator hose and inflator hose ) dent the wing. By the way what is the right height of cylinder mounting. Do I have to feel the first stages when I recline my head fully? Maybe you can have a look at the photos I took. http://www.flickr.com/photos/21299277@N00/ I am grateful for any advice.

August 13th, 2006, 05:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
Joe Hesketh(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 688	I think your problems stem from that multi-valve thing. Normally, I'd place the cam bands on the STA in the same place as the bands on a set of doubles (ie the top band right on the break of the tank shoulder). A normal valve has the DIN opening about another inch or so higher than your multi-thing (which put the openings, and hence the first stages almost immediately above the tank neck). In order to allow enough room below your first stages for all the hoses, etc. you've had to move the cam bands down which is why the elbow of the inflator is sticking into the tank - normally it would be above the tank. I experimented with an h-valve for a while, and if you're doing this to allow you to switch back and forth between a single and doubles rig, then I admit, there is some benefit in the ease this brings. In the end though I found it easier to have a dedicated reg for single tank with a single first stage. If the dive suggests you need redundancy of first stages, you need a set of doubles not just another knob. We also like to think of kit as a team resource. Having odd configurations tends to break down that benefit somewhat. HTH Joe

August 20th, 2006, 11:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
g-west(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Kiel / Germany Posts: 129	I have to apologize for the late answer. It is not easy to reach the valves. But it works. 45° anti-/clockwise does not provide more space. What a pity! Here in northern Germany there are dive sites like the lake Hemmoor where you have to use 2 first stages. D7 would be better, but I suppose the weight is much higher than a single 12 L tank. I think I have to speak with the guys of Baltic Dive Center / Kiel for a better solution. I will let you know if I have found something better. Bye

August 29th, 2006, 04:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
Davidm(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Monterey , CA Posts: 8	Have you taken a look at the Beauchat Y valve? I have them on my single 95's with DS 4's and they work pretty nice, although you need to replace the hard plastic knobs that come with them.