TLS-350 Fixed hood

Mal Bridgeman · March 17th, 2006, 08:17 AM

Hi

What are the pros and cons of a fixed hood on a DUI TLS 350, please?

TIA
Mal

Rick · March 17th, 2006, 10:11 AM

Some bloke called Rienhard uses them and apparently swears by them...dunno if he has much experience though!

I think Zak (EBT) has an all in one (Not TLS) and commented on the additional warmth etc he felt..

Meng_Tze · March 17th, 2006, 08:18 PM

Pro is that you can not forget your hood or loose it.

Con is that if the face seal leaks...............you get wet all over. The mask interfers (well not exactly, but you know what I mean) with the face seal...........likely to open up/trickle.
Another con is that you only have one thickness. You could wear a second one on top, but can not go thinner thanthe one fixed. With a seperate hood, you basically can wear a hood as you like.

I have seperate with warm neck collar and love it!

LauNar · March 19th, 2006, 06:05 PM

Meng, I think you're confusing (fixed) dry hoods and fixed wet hoods. Both are very common here in Finland, this is my take on them:

Separate hood:
+ freedom of choice, you can choose any hood that fits you, double-hood or go without hood if needed, can choose among different thicknesses
- unless really well fitting, the hood will be wet, water can get in and out through the face and neck openings, transferring more heat to water
- one more thing to forget when packing gear

Fixed wet hood:
This is basically just a neoprene hood attached to the suit, with an ordinary neck seal underneath. If you want to dive or hang topside without a hood, you can pull your head though the face opening.
+ If properly attached to the suit, water can only get in through the face opening -> less water circulation -> warmer
+ No need to be as well-fitting as a separate hood - a reasonably snug fit and a well-sealing face opening may keep you head dry for the whole dive, being a lot warmer than a separate hood
+ One thing less to forget when packing gear
- Harder to replace than a separate hood if damaged
- Usually gets less dry with age
- If the hood stays dry, you need to blow air in the hood through your mask on descent, if you don't want to rupture your ear drums - this isn't hard, however.
- If you need extra warmth, ie. a thicker hood, you need to fit something on top of the fixed hood, this may be bit hard. Most of the fixed hoods I've seen are 5mm thick.
- Moving your head may be a bit more difficult than with a separate hood
- Venting the suit through the neck seal will be more difficult (nearly impossible with dry gloves)

Dry hood:
I know only two manufacturers of these, Viking and a small Finnish company called Loitokari. I haven't seen the Viking design and can't really comment them. The Loitokari hood is made-to-measure, you need to visit them to try it on. It is made of wool-lined rubber, and attaches to the suit just like a fixed wet hood, except that you get to ditch the neck seal, as the sealing surface is around your face.
+ Dry. Warm. Dry ears are a big plus for some people.
+ No more missed dives due to a torn neck seal, the hood and the face seal itself is very robust. Also a bit more comfortable, as there's nothing pressing around your neck.
+ Easy to vent the suit through the face seal
- You lose some hearing underwater, and a lot topside
- Once this is installed on your suit, the suit becomes a cold-water-only-suit. Wouldn't want to try cooking my head on the Red Sea or in Florida, unless going for a _really_ long exposure...
- Takes some time to get used to, as the face seal makes talking topside a bit difficult and generally feel a bit tight around the face. Feels natural after a couple of dives, though.
- The mask is worn on top of the hood, makes finding a well-sealing one a bit more difficult. The face seal needs to be sanded thin where the mask passes from rubber to skin. One-time job though, and the Oceanic Shadow, for example, seems to work nicely with Loitokari
- There is a (very) small chance of argon escaping through the face seal to the mask and be accidentally inhaled through the nose. This may be a lot bigger problem with FFM, but we're not interested in them since the gods don't approve of them

- Moving your head takes some work with these
+ They look very cool with the Shadow mask
- My trim got a bit worse after installing my dry hood, but then again, I've gotten past the "o-my-god-I'm-not-perfectly-horizontal-at-all-times"-stage

Just my 0.05€,
LN

***EBT*** · March 19th, 2006, 10:56 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rick)

I think Zak (EBT) has an all in one (Not TLS) and commented on the additional warmth etc he felt..

Yup, its a massively noticeable difference in warmth. One thing that occurs to me, if its cold enough to need a drysuit, surely you need a hood. So why not have a fitted one?

Even diving in temperate waters it makes sense to wear a hood (try reading some of the medical texts on "ossicles").

Mal, mines is on an otter, you're welcome to take a peak.

/Zak

Mal Bridgeman · March 19th, 2006, 11:24 PM

Thanks guys.
Mal

Tricky · March 20th, 2006, 12:05 PM

My first drysuit had an integrate hood. In the water it was fine, but out of the water there were times when I didn't want the hood on, but didn't want to take the suit off. I tended to just pull the hood back off my head but I found this quite restrictive around the neck. I also found it diffucult to get my neck seal sorted properly with it. When I replaced the suit, it was handed on to my brother who had the hood removed. My suits since have all needed separate hoods, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

March 17th, 2006, 08:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mal Bridgeman(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 663	TLS-350 Fixed hood Hi What are the pros and cons of a fixed hood on a DUI TLS 350, please? TIA Mal __________________ Opinions and beliefs are correct at the time of posting but are subject to change without any notice or obligation on the part of the author.

March 17th, 2006, 10:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
Rick(Offline) Jock Exley Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Falkirk/Stratford UK Posts: 730	Some bloke called Rienhard uses them and apparently swears by them...dunno if he has much experience though! I think Zak (EBT) has an all in one (Not TLS) and commented on the additional warmth etc he felt.. __________________ Forget Everything And Remember http://phreaticzone.thedeepstop.com/ http://www.dublinbaydiving.com/

March 17th, 2006, 08:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
Meng_Tze(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK, SG, USA Posts: 91	Pro is that you can not forget your hood or loose it. Con is that if the face seal leaks...............you get wet all over. The mask interfers (well not exactly, but you know what I mean) with the face seal...........likely to open up/trickle. Another con is that you only have one thickness. You could wear a second one on top, but can not go thinner thanthe one fixed. With a seperate hood, you basically can wear a hood as you like. I have seperate with warm neck collar and love it! __________________ ____________________ Homo Bonae Voluntatis

March 19th, 2006, 11:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mal Bridgeman(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 663	Thanks guys. Mal __________________ Opinions and beliefs are correct at the time of posting but are subject to change without any notice or obligation on the part of the author.

March 20th, 2006, 12:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tricky(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Reading, Berkshire Posts: 555	My first drysuit had an integrate hood. In the water it was fine, but out of the water there were times when I didn't want the hood on, but didn't want to take the suit off. I tended to just pull the hood back off my head but I found this quite restrictive around the neck. I also found it diffucult to get my neck seal sorted properly with it. When I replaced the suit, it was handed on to my brother who had the hood removed. My suits since have all needed separate hoods, and I wouldn't have it any other way. __________________ "I know that you believe that you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant." "Make me one with everything" said the Mystic to the Hamburger vendor. Sigmastorm RPG - Play online now free! UK Diving Forum Sryth: A Free Online Text RPG Join the Adventure! Fallen Sword: Free online RPG

March 19th, 2006, 06:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
LauNar (Online) ... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 131	Meng, I think you're confusing (fixed) dry hoods and fixed wet hoods. Both are very common here in Finland, this is my take on them: Separate hood: + freedom of choice, you can choose any hood that fits you, double-hood or go without hood if needed, can choose among different thicknesses - unless really well fitting, the hood will be wet, water can get in and out through the face and neck openings, transferring more heat to water - one more thing to forget when packing gear Fixed wet hood: This is basically just a neoprene hood attached to the suit, with an ordinary neck seal underneath. If you want to dive or hang topside without a hood, you can pull your head though the face opening. + If properly attached to the suit, water can only get in through the face opening -> less water circulation -> warmer + No need to be as well-fitting as a separate hood - a reasonably snug fit and a well-sealing face opening may keep you head dry for the whole dive, being a lot warmer than a separate hood + One thing less to forget when packing gear - Harder to replace than a separate hood if damaged - Usually gets less dry with age - If the hood stays dry, you need to blow air in the hood through your mask on descent, if you don't want to rupture your ear drums - this isn't hard, however. - If you need extra warmth, ie. a thicker hood, you need to fit something on top of the fixed hood, this may be bit hard. Most of the fixed hoods I've seen are 5mm thick. - Moving your head may be a bit more difficult than with a separate hood - Venting the suit through the neck seal will be more difficult (nearly impossible with dry gloves) Dry hood: I know only two manufacturers of these, Viking and a small Finnish company called Loitokari. I haven't seen the Viking design and can't really comment them. The Loitokari hood is made-to-measure, you need to visit them to try it on. It is made of wool-lined rubber, and attaches to the suit just like a fixed wet hood, except that you get to ditch the neck seal, as the sealing surface is around your face. + Dry. Warm. Dry ears are a big plus for some people. + No more missed dives due to a torn neck seal, the hood and the face seal itself is very robust. Also a bit more comfortable, as there's nothing pressing around your neck. + Easy to vent the suit through the face seal - You lose some hearing underwater, and a lot topside - Once this is installed on your suit, the suit becomes a cold-water-only-suit. Wouldn't want to try cooking my head on the Red Sea or in Florida, unless going for a _really_ long exposure... - Takes some time to get used to, as the face seal makes talking topside a bit difficult and generally feel a bit tight around the face. Feels natural after a couple of dives, though. - The mask is worn on top of the hood, makes finding a well-sealing one a bit more difficult. The face seal needs to be sanded thin where the mask passes from rubber to skin. One-time job though, and the Oceanic Shadow, for example, seems to work nicely with Loitokari - There is a (very) small chance of argon escaping through the face seal to the mask and be accidentally inhaled through the nose. This may be a lot bigger problem with FFM, but we're not interested in them since the gods don't approve of them - Moving your head takes some work with these + They look very cool with the Shadow mask - My trim got a bit worse after installing my dry hood, but then again, I've gotten past the "o-my-god-I'm-not-perfectly-horizontal-at-all-times"-stage Just my 0.05€, LN

March 19th, 2006, 10:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
*EBT*(Offline) Just another crouton... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brighton Posts: 414	Quote: (Originally Posted by Rick) I think Zak (EBT) has an all in one (Not TLS) and commented on the additional warmth etc he felt.. Yup, its a massively noticeable difference in warmth. One thing that occurs to me, if its cold enough to need a drysuit, surely you need a hood. So why not have a fitted one? Even diving in temperate waters it makes sense to wear a hood (try reading some of the medical texts on "ossicles"). Mal, mines is on an otter, you're welcome to take a peak. /Zak