Primary Lighting questions

student · January 16th, 2006, 07:22 PM

Hi there,
I am looking to buy my first primary light pretty soon... and so far Im leaning towards 3:
Pro 6/10W
Helios 4.5/10W
Helios 9/18W

If i had the funds Id go with the 18W but it is a fair stretch for me budget wise...I was wondering if the difference between the 10 and 18 watt lights was massive, or more to the point, will a 10W do the job?
I havent really done any tech or cave diving yet, but am trying to go down that route later this year, with either cave 1, tech 1, or both (hence the need to save money). It would be good if the torch could last my diving for a while, ie I wouldnt want to upgrade immediately...

Secondly, the difference between NiMH and LA batteries....Im no rocket scientist and some of the explanations about the more technical aspects of the two types has baffled me, so I was wondering if anyone can give me a really simple explanation of the pros/cons of NiMH. Because I travel a fair amount I am leaning towards the Helios for weight, but then you hear things about how much of a pain their batteries are to deal with...do they last if you treat them properly?

So far I am leaning toward the Helios 4.5/10W so if anyone has any input on this model Id be grateful.

No doubt suggestions to buy a Salvo will come up...I have a fairly open mind but have leaned towards Halcyon just because I think Im willing to pay the extra 130 odd quid...I could be persuaded otherwise tho.

Sorry for the convoluted questions but if anyone could illuminate me

on the subject with pretty simple explanations of the pros and cons about each aspects I would be really grateful.

Take it easy,
P.

*Rich Walker* · January 16th, 2006, 08:15 PM

The NiMH batteries have a much higher "charge density" than Lead Acid - they will burn a light for longer, in a smaller and lighter package. They are more expensive, and some have found them a bit more fussy to charge. The past few years have hown them to be reliable though, so I wouldn't worry too much about that side of it.

If you want to do any cave, then I'd strongly recommend an 18W, as you'll find siganlling more difficult within a team if other members have 18W lights. It is possible, though, but you'll just be jealous.

If you want to try a 10W against an 18W, just let me know, and I'll sort something out for you.

Cheers,

Rich

Gareth Burrows · January 17th, 2006, 12:31 AM

I've had both Halcyons and Salvo Torches.

For less money....

Salvo is brighter than the Halcyon
Salvo has longer burn time than the Halcyon
Salvo has better warranty than the Halcyon
Salvo has far more robust bulbs than the Halcyon

I love Halcyon kit, but the torches really are a no brainer tbh. You might be willing to pay more, but in my humble opinion you'd be paying a lot more for an inferior product.

lizardland · January 17th, 2006, 01:42 AM

I'd go for the Salvo. I've had a Halcyon Pro 14 HID for a few months and it has been a nightmare, I'd never touch a Halcyon light again. It has been so unreliable mechanically and it really doesn't like cold weather at all.

nadwidny · January 17th, 2006, 02:44 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by student)

Hi there,
I am looking to buy my first primary light pretty soon... and so far Im leaning towards 3:
Pro 6/10W
Helios 4.5/10W
Helios 9/18W

If i had the funds Id go with the 18W but it is a fair stretch for me budget wise...I was wondering if the difference between the 10 and 18 watt lights was massive, or more to the point, will a 10W do the job?
I havent really done any tech or cave diving yet, but am trying to go down that route later this year, with either cave 1, tech 1, or both (hence the need to save money). It would be good if the torch could last my diving for a while, ie I wouldnt want to upgrade immediately...

No doubt suggestions to buy a Salvo will come up...I have a fairly open mind but have leaned towards Halcyon just because I think Im willing to pay the extra 130 odd quid...I could be persuaded otherwise tho.

Take it easy,
P.

I found the 10W to be OK in caves but I wouldn't use one for OW. They just don't cut it for signalling. I also have had lots of experience diving with folks who have Salvos and Halcyon's. Both are close but I prefer the Halcyon for it's colour temperature and "throw" of the beam. Despite the mechanical weakness of the bulb, I would go with a Halcyon 18W HID if I needed to buy another primary.

Divbum · January 17th, 2006, 04:45 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

I'd go for the Salvo. I've had a Halcyon Pro 14 HID for a few months and it has been a nightmare, I'd never touch a Halcyon light again. It has been so unreliable mechanically and it really doesn't like cold weather at all.

The Pro 14 has not been made in a while. So is this a New light - or a used one the you just got. A lot of guys dive Halcyon lights in cold waters with no worries.
I have twin 24's for video, and seperate it out to a single when not shooting video. I never see warmer then 42 on the bottom and usally 36-37 degrees F. My light Halcyons light have always worked well. And I have not seen a brighter Salvo out of 4 other guys 24's that I dove with.
Greg

clarktenk · January 17th, 2006, 06:05 AM

Well I would say it comes down to a preference. I personally feel that diving is a visual sport and when I upgraded to an 18 watt I absolutely fell in love. My other dive buddies had 10 watt hid's and there was just no comparison. So if you have the means or can wait a little while until you do, I think you would be much happier with the 18.

Now on the other hand the 10 watt will certainly get the job done in terms of effective signalling and decent light. However like I already said there is nothing like a nice bright light to look at what you went to all this trouble to see.

nadwidny · January 17th, 2006, 06:55 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by clarktenk)

Now on the other hand the 10 watt will certainly get the job done in terms of effective signalling

It doesn't but carry on...

Roel · January 17th, 2006, 08:23 AM

My Salvo 21W HID 13.5Ah works great, altough I've heared the new version without open bulb should even be better, but I can not comment on that.

And I can not comment on warranty either :D

PS 21W also works in open water in the Netherlands, in bounty country probable that is even not enough to communicate. A laser as back up?

Roel

student · January 17th, 2006, 12:17 PM

Cheers for the input, but dammit why did you all have to recommend the 18W!!!:D Now the choice is b/w the Salvo and Halcyon, both of which people seem to like for some reason or another...between niknaks and dirdirect over here there is about 50 quid between them.

Does anyone know if the price of the H. light includes the charger-or is that something that you have to pay extra for? On niknaks it says that the charger is included for the S. light...

Also, was just wondering why the weight difference between the two is almost 1kg? The S.light seems to have an hour of extra burntime, with 300 mins quoted as opposed to 4hrs, would this be where the extra weight comes in?

Thanks very much for the offer Rich...i think I can just about scounge a few lights from people I know so no worries...(as an aside, do you have the evolve 40 around-looking at options for a doubles wing)

Again, thanks for your input,
P.

January 16th, 2006, 07:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
student(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bristol Posts: 56	Primary Lighting questions Hi there, I am looking to buy my first primary light pretty soon... and so far Im leaning towards 3: Pro 6/10W Helios 4.5/10W Helios 9/18W If i had the funds Id go with the 18W but it is a fair stretch for me budget wise...I was wondering if the difference between the 10 and 18 watt lights was massive, or more to the point, will a 10W do the job? I havent really done any tech or cave diving yet, but am trying to go down that route later this year, with either cave 1, tech 1, or both (hence the need to save money). It would be good if the torch could last my diving for a while, ie I wouldnt want to upgrade immediately... Secondly, the difference between NiMH and LA batteries....Im no rocket scientist and some of the explanations about the more technical aspects of the two types has baffled me, so I was wondering if anyone can give me a really simple explanation of the pros/cons of NiMH. Because I travel a fair amount I am leaning towards the Helios for weight, but then you hear things about how much of a pain their batteries are to deal with...do they last if you treat them properly? So far I am leaning toward the Helios 4.5/10W so if anyone has any input on this model Id be grateful. No doubt suggestions to buy a Salvo will come up...I have a fairly open mind but have leaned towards Halcyon just because I think Im willing to pay the extra 130 odd quid...I could be persuaded otherwise tho. Sorry for the convoluted questions but if anyone could illuminate me on the subject with pretty simple explanations of the pros and cons about each aspects I would be really grateful. Take it easy, P.

January 17th, 2006, 12:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
Gareth Burrows(Offline) Chimp 2 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Horsham, West Sussex Posts: 365	I've had both Halcyons and Salvo Torches. For less money.... Salvo is brighter than the Halcyon Salvo has longer burn time than the Halcyon Salvo has better warranty than the Halcyon Salvo has far more robust bulbs than the Halcyon I love Halcyon kit, but the torches really are a no brainer tbh. You might be willing to pay more, but in my humble opinion you'd be paying a lot more for an inferior product. __________________ Garf Amusing and Clever Signature under construction.

January 17th, 2006, 02:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
nadwidny(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 117	Quote: (Originally Posted by student) Hi there, I am looking to buy my first primary light pretty soon... and so far Im leaning towards 3: Pro 6/10W Helios 4.5/10W Helios 9/18W If i had the funds Id go with the 18W but it is a fair stretch for me budget wise...I was wondering if the difference between the 10 and 18 watt lights was massive, or more to the point, will a 10W do the job? I havent really done any tech or cave diving yet, but am trying to go down that route later this year, with either cave 1, tech 1, or both (hence the need to save money). It would be good if the torch could last my diving for a while, ie I wouldnt want to upgrade immediately... No doubt suggestions to buy a Salvo will come up...I have a fairly open mind but have leaned towards Halcyon just because I think Im willing to pay the extra 130 odd quid...I could be persuaded otherwise tho. Take it easy, P. I found the 10W to be OK in caves but I wouldn't use one for OW. They just don't cut it for signalling. I also have had lots of experience diving with folks who have Salvos and Halcyon's. Both are close but I prefer the Halcyon for it's colour temperature and "throw" of the beam. Despite the mechanical weakness of the bulb, I would go with a Halcyon 18W HID if I needed to buy another primary. __________________ Brian My crappy website - members.shaw.ca/nadwidny

January 17th, 2006, 04:45 AM	#6 (permalink)
Divbum(Offline) "It's always an adventure..." Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 30	Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) I'd go for the Salvo. I've had a Halcyon Pro 14 HID for a few months and it has been a nightmare, I'd never touch a Halcyon light again. It has been so unreliable mechanically and it really doesn't like cold weather at all. The Pro 14 has not been made in a while. So is this a New light - or a used one the you just got. A lot of guys dive Halcyon lights in cold waters with no worries. I have twin 24's for video, and seperate it out to a single when not shooting video. I never see warmer then 42 on the bottom and usally 36-37 degrees F. My light Halcyons light have always worked well. And I have not seen a brighter Salvo out of 4 other guys 24's that I dove with. Greg __________________ Safe Diving, Greg www.shipwreckadventures.com 815.378.8152

January 17th, 2006, 06:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
nadwidny(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 117	Quote: (Originally Posted by clarktenk) Now on the other hand the 10 watt will certainly get the job done in terms of effective signalling It doesn't but carry on... __________________ Brian My crappy website - members.shaw.ca/nadwidny

January 16th, 2006, 08:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rich Walker(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sheffield Posts: 300	The NiMH batteries have a much higher "charge density" than Lead Acid - they will burn a light for longer, in a smaller and lighter package. They are more expensive, and some have found them a bit more fussy to charge. The past few years have hown them to be reliable though, so I wouldn't worry too much about that side of it. If you want to do any cave, then I'd strongly recommend an 18W, as you'll find siganlling more difficult within a team if other members have 18W lights. It is possible, though, but you'll just be jealous. If you want to try a 10W against an 18W, just let me know, and I'll sort something out for you. Cheers, Rich

January 17th, 2006, 01:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
lizardland(Offline) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 591	I'd go for the Salvo. I've had a Halcyon Pro 14 HID for a few months and it has been a nightmare, I'd never touch a Halcyon light again. It has been so unreliable mechanically and it really doesn't like cold weather at all.

January 17th, 2006, 06:05 AM	#7 (permalink)
clarktenk(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: London, Ontario Canada Posts: 36	Well I would say it comes down to a preference. I personally feel that diving is a visual sport and when I upgraded to an 18 watt I absolutely fell in love. My other dive buddies had 10 watt hid's and there was just no comparison. So if you have the means or can wait a little while until you do, I think you would be much happier with the 18. Now on the other hand the 10 watt will certainly get the job done in terms of effective signalling and decent light. However like I already said there is nothing like a nice bright light to look at what you went to all this trouble to see.

January 17th, 2006, 08:23 AM	#9 (permalink)
Roel(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 374	My Salvo 21W HID 13.5Ah works great, altough I've heared the new version without open bulb should even be better, but I can not comment on that. And I can not comment on warranty either :D PS 21W also works in open water in the Netherlands, in bounty country probable that is even not enough to communicate. A laser as back up? Roel

January 17th, 2006, 12:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
student(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bristol Posts: 56	Cheers for the input, but dammit why did you all have to recommend the 18W!!!:D Now the choice is b/w the Salvo and Halcyon, both of which people seem to like for some reason or another...between niknaks and dirdirect over here there is about 50 quid between them. Does anyone know if the price of the H. light includes the charger-or is that something that you have to pay extra for? On niknaks it says that the charger is included for the S. light... Also, was just wondering why the weight difference between the two is almost 1kg? The S.light seems to have an hour of extra burntime, with 300 mins quoted as opposed to 4hrs, would this be where the extra weight comes in? Thanks very much for the offer Rich...i think I can just about scounge a few lights from people I know so no worries...(as an aside, do you have the evolve 40 around-looking at options for a doubles wing) Again, thanks for your input, P.