Leg of Salmon(Offline)

I don't know why everyone bitches about Halcyon so much. They sell a superior product, all be it at a superior price.

If you have a legal grievance with a competitor then it is your right to seek damages, why there is such a big deal over it I don't get. Business is tough, get used to it.

cmck1(Offline)

DIR Explorers
While I fully realize that engaging in a drawn out online debate about Salvo is a waste of everyone’s time, there are a few issues that deserve clarification. For those that do not know or choose not to remember, the State of Florida convicted Barry Miller of grand theft in the spring of 2006, sentenced him to 366 days in prison and ordered him to pay restitution to Halcyon for theft of raw materials taken in 2003-04. Mr. Miller decided to drag out the criminal process through delay and denial for all of 2005 ultimately resulting in significant personal expense and a more severe penalty from the State of Florida. It was Barry Miller’s choice to delay and deny while allowing himself enough time to establish a business built on the proceeds from his theft. No one else made this decision for him. In addition to the theft of raw materials, the police discovered Halcyon designs, supplier lists, customer lists and a Halcyon laptop containing Halcyon information at Barry Miller’s business and home while executing a court ordered search warrant. Halcyon for the record has no problem whatsoever with competition and believes competition encourages innovation, quality and service among other things. However, when a new business starts using stolen materials, designs, customer lists, supplier lists and confidential cost information from another company it is not really competition. Fortunately the courts agree.

As for the current decision by Salvo Manufacturing, LLC to close their doors, that is their decision. Florida’s civil court system awarded Halcyon a judgment against Barry Miller and Salvo Diving in June, 2008 for financial damage resulting from the theft of raw materials. Barry Miller made a decision not to pay the judgment and instead engaged in delay and denial for most of the past year spending tens of thousands of dollars on attorneys and legal expenses. Barry Miller also tried to give half of the company to his wife but the court ruled that was not permitted. Instead, the latest move was to drain the former company of assets and go to work for Salvo Manufacturing LLC, created in April. However, you cannot create a new version of the former company and continue to use the name, website coding, phone numbers, designs, customer lists and supplier lists among other things from the old company without paying anything for them. This is another fraudulent transfer as defined by the court. The current ownership of Salvo Manufacturing LLC likely understands this and has chosen to not subject themselves to further liability for perpetuating this fraud. In another unfortunate twist, the new owners of Salvo Manufacturing LLC fired Barry Miller for removing property after hours from the new business and misusing company funds and credit cards. The High Springs Police Department is now involved in that investigation.

In the end this is an unfortunate situation made more difficult, complicated and expensive because of one person; Barry Miller. It is unfortunate that his decisions have had such negative consequences for his wife and for his employees. It is also unfortunate in many ways for his customers as Barry Miller told everyone that it was all a lie and that everything was normal while at the same time paying himself and his wife large salaries, paying personal expenses with company funds, buying a second home, buying 2 new cars, liquidating the valuable assets of the company and finally being fired from the fraudulent shell of a company he helped create to avoid his responsibilities. As far as I know, Barry and his wife have left the country with no consideration for their customers or their former employees. This is a sad state of affairs but at the same time not entirely surprising given this same pattern of unethical behavior over the years. It is likely the Florida Court system will find Barry Miller in contempt for these activities and he may face additional jail time next month.

I do understand there are plans to create a new version of the company. As previously stated, Halcyon does not have a problem with competition. However, if this new version of the company plans to use Halcyon designs or proprietary Salvo designs subject to the court ordered judgment, Halcyon will in no uncertain terms aggressively pursue our rights and our intellectual property in the Florida court system. Our employees and their families would expect nothing less. I expect there are many small business owners on this list that would rightly do the same.

Casey McKinlay

Fiona(Offline)

Was there a reason this was cross posted and not posted by Phill.

__________________
Fiona

It is impossible to make everything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

GUE Member


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LauNar(Offline)

I don't really get the whining about IP by any of the dive light manufacturers. If your lights feature any truly original ideas, go ahead and file for patents - and advertise about the patent once you get the patent number. "Patent pending"-advertising is a bit embarrassing.

There's nothing original in taking a piece of working lighting technology (whatever, LED, HID or halogen) and putting it in a 1 atm container. I think Halcyon would be the first to admit that any reasonably competent DIY guy could easily copy their design without breaking any IP rights. As the light design is fundamentally functional it might even look nearly identical to a 'H' light. Actually copying a proven, good design is what any smart DIYer or even engineer would do - assuming it's not patented. Sticking a blue 'H' on the light would be a problem, though, as would be using stolen components to build the lights, but that has very little to do with IP rights.

__________________
//LN
--
My UW photos

Graham S(Offline)

Thanks Casey, It's nice to get the bigger picture on all this

cmck1(Offline)

Graham
I am sure there will be those out there that choose not to believe any of it but I thought it was best to summarize our experience. It would have been my preference to not have to waste any time or money dealing with this unfortunate situation but how do I look our employees in the eye and explain to them that we have chosen not to pursue legal remedy for these actions that at the end of the day affect their jobs and their families? Halcyon has no problem with competition. You do not see us filing suits against OMS, DSS, Oxycheq, Dive Rite, Frog, etc. If someone has a great idea and the initiative to start a business then best of luck. Halcyon does not have an exclusive on good ideas. However, starting a business with a foundation built on someone else's work and information is not the same thing. If I am fired and walk out the door with a printout of costs, suppliers and customers, it is not that difficult to start a business and undercut my former employer. Fortunately the courts agree. What will be interesting to watch is whether the new owners of Salvo Manufacturing LLC sue Barry Miller to recover stolen cash and materials. I expect they will be criticized for being unfair, anti-competition and that the entire situation was just a big misunderstanding.

Ali Fikree(Offline)

I think this pretty much sums it up.


There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.—John Ruskin

__________________
"A community that excludes even one of its members is no community at all." -Dan Wilkins

Leg of Salmon(Offline)

Your class debriefs must be interesting. You sure don't miss and hit the wall!

Fiona(Offline)

Agreed most of us probably have that written in to our contracts.



My Salvo hasn't done that much diving so if something happens to it I guess the support won't be there, pity as I doubt I would be in a position to purchase another primary light.

__________________
Fiona

It is impossible to make everything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

GUE Member


DIVESIGNS - Personalise your equipment

cmck1(Offline)

Fiona
Without a doubt, the customer has been a victim alongside Halcyon throughout this unfortunate situation. While I cannot speak to specifics for all products, if you require service or maintenance on your light please feel free to email techservices@halcyon.net. We may be able to assist you with troubleshooting, service or point you in the right direction.

Best,