Trespresidentes - another RB80 clone - Page 3

Frank Griga · October 10th, 2008, 10:47 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jale)

Thank for your reply Clare but how do you do practice, get more confortable with the RB before taking it to dives where its advantage is needed ?
Thanks,
Jale.

The answer is simple. You will take your RB on every single dive if you want to build up the skills needed for big ones. You won’t do any progress without doing the ‘normal dives’ unless you wanted to kill yourself one day.

graham_hk · October 10th, 2008, 10:58 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Frank Griga)

The answer is simple. You will take your RB on every single dive if you want to build up the skills needed for big ones. You won’t do any progress without doing the ‘normal dives’ unless you wanted to kill yourself one day.

Frank you need to read the last 5-8 posts. It would be retarded to take an RB on a 18m reef dive where a single tank would do. Sure you need to build up to be big dives but those are training dives - I would typically build up to a big dive (100m+) with similar run times in shallower water(start with say more than an hour at 50m)

It doesn't make sense to dive an RB80 with small tanks - even using the training arguement for using this tool on smaller dives you wouldn't train in smaller tanks and then dive in big'uns

lizardland · October 10th, 2008, 01:59 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jale)

Hi Graham,
Why that ? Is it what bulky, even with small tanks? Or is it too much troubles related to the dives? I wonder how people train with these machines if they use them only for "mega-dives". Can't the RB be set in a "light" configuration for "normal dives" ?
Thanks,
jale.

It was the shear unwieldiness of the system for open water that really turned me off it when I was considering pSCR. Before Claire starts, I know a clone isn't a RB80 but the basic config and form factor is the same. I was diving twin 20's at the point I was considering a clone, I found the 20's less of a burden. It felt very clumsy on the surface, underwater drag was noticeable and I felt very reliant on a scooter. It just seemed like a good way of making open water diving harder.

Cheers,

Stuart

jale · October 10th, 2008, 04:55 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland)

It was the shear unwieldiness of the system for open water that really turned me off it when I was considering pSCR. Before Claire starts, I know a clone isn't a RB80 but the basic config and form factor is the same. I was diving twin 20's at the point I was considering a clone, I found the 20's less of a burden. It felt very clumsy on the surface, underwater drag was noticeable and I felt very reliant on a scooter. It just seemed like a good way of making open water diving harder.

Cheers,

Stuart

Thanks all of you for your answers.
So, can we say that for ocean dive, even dives at +100m, the pscr is quite not an optimal option and that it would better to be kept for cave diving?
jale.

db8us · October 10th, 2008, 10:55 PM

Everyone has to consider that for his own diving.
if i would have to go to 80m for extended bottom-time i would use one.
If not needed i wouldnt :-)

If tehre is no reason for extendes bottom time i wouldnt.

And yes Cooper, Parker were the O-Rings

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · October 10th, 2008, 11:26 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by db8us)

Everyone has to consider that for his own diving.
if i would have to go to 80m for extended bottom-time i would use one.
If not needed i wouldnt :-)

If tehre is no reason for extendes bottom time i wouldnt.

And yes Cooper, Parker were the O-Rings

It jut occured to me the reason we always have this issue of when to and when not to use the RB80.
The main problem is exactly what db8us said: "If there was no reason....Iwouldn't"

It would be interesting to know more about limitations for time/depth/enviroment. I am sure that GUE has access to enough data, so common JJ, chop-chop.
I think a new set of standards is in order. At least to giv e a better outlay for when an RB80 is needed.

Frank Griga · October 10th, 2008, 11:48 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by graham_hk)

Frank you need to read the last 5-8 posts. It would be retarded to take an RB on a 18m reef dive where a single tank would do. Sure you need to build up to be big dives but those are training dives - I would typically build up to a big dive (100m+) with similar run times in shallower water(start with say more than an hour at 50m)

It doesn't make sense to dive an RB80 with small tanks - even using the training arguement for using this tool on smaller dives you wouldn't train in smaller tanks and then dive in big'uns

I'm not doing single tank dives as I don't see any reason for spending half of the day by doing a 60 minutes dive/dives. I prefer as long as possible dives where I can enjoy and learn.

I could easily take the RB down for 18m dive if I knew I was going to have a nice training dive that would last for couple of hours at least.

Ali Fikree · October 12th, 2008, 02:30 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Frank Griga)

I'm not doing single tank dives as I don't see any reason for spending half of the day by doing a 60 minutes dive/dives. I prefer as long as possible dives where I can enjoy and learn.

I could easily take the RB down for 18m dive if I knew I was going to have a nice training dive that would last for couple of hours at least.

So you are looking at a 2+ hour dive at 18m? I do that on a twinset and stage stank. Fraction of the price, headache and drama of an RB

My two longest dives have been 35 mins @75m and 22mins at 110m.Throw in a couple of 92m dives as well.
All were done on OC and that's the furthest I want/need to take my diving at the moment.

Even if you do that dive on RB, you still need to carry adequate gas for bailout. This is a common argument I have seen among a few RB divers and RB divers in training thinking that they dont need bail out gas in case it fails.

When an RB fails and you dont have any OC bailout.....

Frank Griga · October 12th, 2008, 10:11 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ali Fikree)

So you are looking at a 2+ hour dive at 18m?

The 18m RB dive was just a training dive example. Sure it can easily be done on OC but I'm talking about RB build up dives where time and effort have to be spent in order to gain the skills progressively.

I'm looking for 60+ minutes bottom time in 60-70m range as that's what I'm focusing on at this moment. There are too many nice wrecks in Malin Head and I would like to get some nice decent shots. I believe 60 minutes will give me lot of time for finding the best scenery and will also give me the time for taking some nice shots. Sure finding a skipper accepting it will be another issue.

It is not going to be easy and will cost me lot of time and effort. Aren't you always planing your RB dive as it was an OC dive?

GLOC · October 12th, 2008, 10:29 PM

Frank, from my position as a fellow UW photographer, I can see where you are coming from but from someone who uses his buddies as models, who is going to be diving with you on these 60mins at 60-70m dives?

I too would love to go to Mallin head after seeing some of the shots from the Rebreather.nl gallery last year, and it might be something I plan for in 2009.

October 10th, 2008, 10:58 AM	#22 (permalink)
graham_hk(Offline) Pinoy ako pinoy Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: here, there and everywhere Posts: 779	Quote: (Originally Posted by Frank Griga) The answer is simple. You will take your RB on every single dive if you want to build up the skills needed for big ones. You won’t do any progress without doing the ‘normal dives’ unless you wanted to kill yourself one day. Frank you need to read the last 5-8 posts. It would be retarded to take an RB on a 18m reef dive where a single tank would do. Sure you need to build up to be big dives but those are training dives - I would typically build up to a big dive (100m+) with similar run times in shallower water(start with say more than an hour at 50m) It doesn't make sense to dive an RB80 with small tanks - even using the training arguement for using this tool on smaller dives you wouldn't train in smaller tanks and then dive in big'uns __________________ DIN caps and plugs with free world wide postage: www.dustcap.halcyon-hk.com

October 10th, 2008, 01:59 PM	#23 (permalink)
lizardland(Offline) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 591	Quote: (Originally Posted by jale) Hi Graham, Why that ? Is it what bulky, even with small tanks? Or is it too much troubles related to the dives? I wonder how people train with these machines if they use them only for "mega-dives". Can't the RB be set in a "light" configuration for "normal dives" ? Thanks, jale. It was the shear unwieldiness of the system for open water that really turned me off it when I was considering pSCR. Before Claire starts, I know a clone isn't a RB80 but the basic config and form factor is the same. I was diving twin 20's at the point I was considering a clone, I found the 20's less of a burden. It felt very clumsy on the surface, underwater drag was noticeable and I felt very reliant on a scooter. It just seemed like a good way of making open water diving harder. Cheers, Stuart __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

October 10th, 2008, 11:26 PM	#26 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Quote: (Originally Posted by db8us) Everyone has to consider that for his own diving. if i would have to go to 80m for extended bottom-time i would use one. If not needed i wouldnt :-) If tehre is no reason for extendes bottom time i wouldnt. And yes Cooper, Parker were the O-Rings It jut occured to me the reason we always have this issue of when to and when not to use the RB80. The main problem is exactly what db8us said: "If there was no reason....Iwouldn't" It would be interesting to know more about limitations for time/depth/enviroment. I am sure that GUE has access to enough data, so common JJ, chop-chop. I think a new set of standards is in order. At least to giv e a better outlay for when an RB80 is needed. __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com

October 12th, 2008, 10:29 PM	#30 (permalink)
GLOC (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,953	Frank, from my position as a fellow UW photographer, I can see where you are coming from but from someone who uses his buddies as models, who is going to be diving with you on these 60mins at 60-70m dives? I too would love to go to Mallin head after seeing some of the shots from the Rebreather.nl gallery last year, and it might be something I plan for in 2009. __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

October 10th, 2008, 10:47 AM	#21 (permalink)
Frank Griga(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Slovakia Posts: 127	Quote: (Originally Posted by jale) Thank for your reply Clare but how do you do practice, get more confortable with the RB before taking it to dives where its advantage is needed ? Thanks, Jale. The answer is simple. You will take your RB on every single dive if you want to build up the skills needed for big ones. You won’t do any progress without doing the ‘normal dives’ unless you wanted to kill yourself one day.

October 10th, 2008, 04:55 PM	#24 (permalink)
jale(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 3	Quote: (Originally Posted by lizardland) It was the shear unwieldiness of the system for open water that really turned me off it when I was considering pSCR. Before Claire starts, I know a clone isn't a RB80 but the basic config and form factor is the same. I was diving twin 20's at the point I was considering a clone, I found the 20's less of a burden. It felt very clumsy on the surface, underwater drag was noticeable and I felt very reliant on a scooter. It just seemed like a good way of making open water diving harder. Cheers, Stuart Thanks all of you for your answers. So, can we say that for ocean dive, even dives at +100m, the pscr is quite not an optimal option and that it would better to be kept for cave diving? jale.

October 10th, 2008, 10:55 PM	#25 (permalink)
db8us(Offline) New Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 90	Everyone has to consider that for his own diving. if i would have to go to 80m for extended bottom-time i would use one. If not needed i wouldnt :-) If tehre is no reason for extendes bottom time i wouldnt. And yes Cooper, Parker were the O-Rings

October 10th, 2008, 11:48 PM	#27 (permalink)
Frank Griga(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Slovakia Posts: 127	Quote: (Originally Posted by graham_hk) Frank you need to read the last 5-8 posts. It would be retarded to take an RB on a 18m reef dive where a single tank would do. Sure you need to build up to be big dives but those are training dives - I would typically build up to a big dive (100m+) with similar run times in shallower water(start with say more than an hour at 50m) It doesn't make sense to dive an RB80 with small tanks - even using the training arguement for using this tool on smaller dives you wouldn't train in smaller tanks and then dive in big'uns I'm not doing single tank dives as I don't see any reason for spending half of the day by doing a 60 minutes dive/dives. I prefer as long as possible dives where I can enjoy and learn. I could easily take the RB down for 18m dive if I knew I was going to have a nice training dive that would last for couple of hours at least.

October 12th, 2008, 10:11 PM	#29 (permalink)
Frank Griga(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Slovakia Posts: 127	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ali Fikree) So you are looking at a 2+ hour dive at 18m? The 18m RB dive was just a training dive example. Sure it can easily be done on OC but I'm talking about RB build up dives where time and effort have to be spent in order to gain the skills progressively. I'm looking for 60+ minutes bottom time in 60-70m range as that's what I'm focusing on at this moment. There are too many nice wrecks in Malin Head and I would like to get some nice decent shots. I believe 60 minutes will give me lot of time for finding the best scenery and will also give me the time for taking some nice shots. Sure finding a skipper accepting it will be another issue. It is not going to be easy and will cost me lot of time and effort. Aren't you always planing your RB dive as it was an OC dive?