Salvo Havoc or Rebel?

alan_lee · July 14th, 2008, 05:34 PM

Hi everyone, I've finally decided on a Salvo 21W canister light, but I can't decide between the Rebel and the Havoc. Would be grateful if someone could tell me what the difference is between these 2 models.

Cheers!

Leg of Salmon · July 14th, 2008, 05:37 PM

One had the HID ballast on the "handset", the other has it in the can so the "handset" is smaller. Not sure which is which though.

HTH

**keri.lewis** · July 14th, 2008, 06:32 PM

The Havoc is the one with the "remote head" essentially quite a lot of the electrics shifted into the canister. It's a newer design.

I just bought a Havoc 15.6AH (it's about 3 months old now) and I'm quite happy with it. We'll see if it has the durability of the old SLA Pro6 I still keep..

Before anyone asks -

1) I'm as unsure of LiIon as anyone - but it seems to work reasonably well - I am watching developments closely.
2) I bought the Salvo for purely economic reasons - it was £300 less than the Halcyon where I bought it.

Vie · July 14th, 2008, 06:42 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by alan_lee)

Hi everyone, I've finally decided on a Salvo 21W canister light, but I can't decide between the Rebel and the Havoc. Would be grateful if someone could tell me what the difference is between these 2 models.

I assume you're asking about the difference between the Rebel 21W HID and the Havoc 21W HID.

The Rebel 21W HID lighthead is bigger/wider at the rear compared to the Havoc 21W HID (see above). With the same "size" battery, the Havoc canister size is larger/wider/longer than the Rebel's due to the ballast of the Havoc models being housed within the canister (under the lid). See pics comparing size of Havoc 21W HID 15.6 Amp Li-Ion (top) and Rebel 21W HID 15.6 Amp Li-Ion (bottom) below.

Rebel 21W HID is available with three battery choices - 9A NiMH, 10.4A Li-Ion and 15.6A Li-Ion.

Havoc 21W HID is available with three battery choices - 5.2A Li-Ion, 10.4A Li-Ion and 15.6A Li-Ion

Confusingly, there's also a range of Rebel 21W HID lights...

Just from my experience, I find that having a short canister allows the long hose to accidentally slip out quite often (so I would not recommend the Rebel 10.4 Li-Ion canister size).

Rob Dobson · July 14th, 2008, 07:04 PM

I have a Rebel 21W 15.6ah and it's a cracking light. The head is marginally bigger than Havoc but it is still a lot smaller than the previous generation of HiD lights.

I thought Salvo had stopped making the Rebel HiD but it looks like it's back or at least it's back on the website (www.salvosupply.com).

I also have a Havoc with the remote ballast. They both work perfectly - very little to choose to between them TBH.

alan_lee · July 15th, 2008, 03:21 AM

It's great waking up in the morning (am in Asia) and seeing that the good people of DIR Explorers have already replied to my question. Cheers guys!

Yeah, I've decided on the 21W HID, but just can't tell the difference between the Havoc and the Rebel, apart from the marginal difference in terms of the physical specs for the canister. Thanks for pointing out the fact that one has the ballast in the lighthead. I must say that from the pictures, it doesn't look like the lighthead of the Rebel is that much bigger than the Havoc. Can anyone comment on that? And does it matter where the ballast is located?

Now I know I'll be opening up a can of worms here, but I've been reading about the NiMH vs Li-on debate, and I'm wondering what's the advantage of the each type of battery.

Cheers in advance for your replies and putting up with my newbie questions.

Rob Dobson · July 15th, 2008, 03:41 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by alan_lee)

I must say that from the pictures, it doesn't look like the lighthead of the Rebel is that much bigger than the Havoc. Can anyone comment on that? And does it matter where the ballast is located?

NiMH vs Li-on debate, and I'm wondering what's the advantage of the each type of battery.

The difference in size is not noticeable on your hand and it is only side by side that you can really tell.

I have no preference to whether or not the ballast is in the can or the head. The Rebel used to have a slightly more efficient ballast but the new burn times are the same so this looks to have changed.

Ni-Mh is getting much harder to get hence Li-ion getting more and more common. Li-Ion is lighter and provides longer burn times compared to Ni-Mh. Li-ion degrades more than Ni-Mh so the battery won't typically last as long (but still good for many years).

HTH

Vie · July 15th, 2008, 05:57 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by alan_lee)

And does it matter where the ballast is located?

I don't like the ballast located under the lid - it heats up the battery and needs a larger canister.

I have the "2710" size canister for my light (ballast on lighthead) - it'll fit both a 9A NiMH and a 15.6A Li-Ion pack - perfect

Marijn · July 15th, 2008, 11:01 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Vie)

I don't like the ballast located under the lid - it heats up the battery and needs a larger canister.

*cut*

Could be a good thing if you dive for long times in cold water.

alan_lee · July 15th, 2008, 12:02 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marijn)

Could be a good thing if you dive for long times in cold water.

Well, I'll be diving in tropical waters, so I guess the Rebel might be a better idea then?

July 14th, 2008, 05:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
alan_lee(Offline) New Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 34	Salvo Havoc or Rebel? Hi everyone, I've finally decided on a Salvo 21W canister light, but I can't decide between the Rebel and the Havoc. Would be grateful if someone could tell me what the difference is between these 2 models. Cheers!

July 14th, 2008, 06:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
keri.lewis (Online) Back in the water.. Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Hampshire Posts: 385	The Havoc is the one with the "remote head" essentially quite a lot of the electrics shifted into the canister. It's a newer design. I just bought a Havoc 15.6AH (it's about 3 months old now) and I'm quite happy with it. We'll see if it has the durability of the old SLA Pro6 I still keep.. Before anyone asks - 1) I'm as unsure of LiIon as anyone - but it seems to work reasonably well - I am watching developments closely. 2) I bought the Salvo for purely economic reasons - it was £300 less than the Halcyon where I bought it. __________________ Even a "bad" day diving beats a day in the office... Keri The more I learn.. the more ignorant I realise I am..

July 14th, 2008, 06:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
Vie(Offline) Loner at the ball... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Krung Thep, Siam, mostly Posts: 189	Quote: (Originally Posted by alan_lee) Hi everyone, I've finally decided on a Salvo 21W canister light, but I can't decide between the Rebel and the Havoc. Would be grateful if someone could tell me what the difference is between these 2 models. I assume you're asking about the difference between the Rebel 21W HID and the Havoc 21W HID. The Rebel 21W HID lighthead is bigger/wider at the rear compared to the Havoc 21W HID (see above). With the same "size" battery, the Havoc canister size is larger/wider/longer than the Rebel's due to the ballast of the Havoc models being housed within the canister (under the lid). See pics comparing size of Havoc 21W HID 15.6 Amp Li-Ion (top) and Rebel 21W HID 15.6 Amp Li-Ion (bottom) below. Rebel 21W HID is available with three battery choices - 9A NiMH, 10.4A Li-Ion and 15.6A Li-Ion. Havoc 21W HID is available with three battery choices - 5.2A Li-Ion, 10.4A Li-Ion and 15.6A Li-Ion Confusingly, there's also a range of Rebel 21W HID lights... Just from my experience, I find that having a short canister allows the long hose to accidentally slip out quite often (so I would not recommend the Rebel 10.4 Li-Ion canister size). Last edited by Vie; July 14th, 2008 at 06:44 PM.

July 14th, 2008, 07:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Rob Dobson(Offline) Chillin' with the ninjas Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 536	I have a Rebel 21W 15.6ah and it's a cracking light. The head is marginally bigger than Havoc but it is still a lot smaller than the previous generation of HiD lights. I thought Salvo had stopped making the Rebel HiD but it looks like it's back or at least it's back on the website (www.salvosupply.com). I also have a Havoc with the remote ballast. They both work perfectly - very little to choose to between them TBH. __________________ --------------------- DIR-RA www.deep-ideas.co.uk www.tecdivers.co.uk. www.unifiedteamdiving.com

July 15th, 2008, 03:41 AM	#7 (permalink)
Rob Dobson(Offline) Chillin' with the ninjas Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 536	Quote: (Originally Posted by alan_lee) I must say that from the pictures, it doesn't look like the lighthead of the Rebel is that much bigger than the Havoc. Can anyone comment on that? And does it matter where the ballast is located? NiMH vs Li-on debate, and I'm wondering what's the advantage of the each type of battery. The difference in size is not noticeable on your hand and it is only side by side that you can really tell. I have no preference to whether or not the ballast is in the can or the head. The Rebel used to have a slightly more efficient ballast but the new burn times are the same so this looks to have changed. Ni-Mh is getting much harder to get hence Li-ion getting more and more common. Li-Ion is lighter and provides longer burn times compared to Ni-Mh. Li-ion degrades more than Ni-Mh so the battery won't typically last as long (but still good for many years). HTH __________________ --------------------- DIR-RA www.deep-ideas.co.uk www.tecdivers.co.uk. www.unifiedteamdiving.com

July 14th, 2008, 05:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
Leg of Salmon (Online) New Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Belfast Posts: 131	One had the HID ballast on the "handset", the other has it in the can so the "handset" is smaller. Not sure which is which though. HTH

July 15th, 2008, 03:21 AM	#6 (permalink)
alan_lee(Offline) New Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 34	It's great waking up in the morning (am in Asia) and seeing that the good people of DIR Explorers have already replied to my question. Cheers guys! Yeah, I've decided on the 21W HID, but just can't tell the difference between the Havoc and the Rebel, apart from the marginal difference in terms of the physical specs for the canister. Thanks for pointing out the fact that one has the ballast in the lighthead. I must say that from the pictures, it doesn't look like the lighthead of the Rebel is that much bigger than the Havoc. Can anyone comment on that? And does it matter where the ballast is located? Now I know I'll be opening up a can of worms here, but I've been reading about the NiMH vs Li-on debate, and I'm wondering what's the advantage of the each type of battery. Cheers in advance for your replies and putting up with my newbie questions.

July 15th, 2008, 05:57 AM	#8 (permalink)
Vie(Offline) Loner at the ball... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Krung Thep, Siam, mostly Posts: 189	Quote: (Originally Posted by alan_lee) And does it matter where the ballast is located? I don't like the ballast located under the lid - it heats up the battery and needs a larger canister. I have the "2710" size canister for my light (ballast on lighthead) - it'll fit both a 9A NiMH and a 15.6A Li-Ion pack - perfect

July 15th, 2008, 11:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
Marijn (Online) Smurf #1 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Papendrecht, The Netherlands Posts: 379	Quote: (Originally Posted by Vie) I don't like the ballast located under the lid - it heats up the battery and needs a larger canister. cut Could be a good thing if you dive for long times in cold water. __________________ Its a fact that the humans can't go without water for more than 3 days

July 15th, 2008, 12:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
alan_lee(Offline) New Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 34	Quote: (Originally Posted by Marijn) Could be a good thing if you dive for long times in cold water. Well, I'll be diving in tropical waters, so I guess the Rebel might be a better idea then?