Moving my drysuit autodump.

Little Pete · November 23rd, 2005, 11:51 AM

Hey folks,

My polar bears suit is pretty good all around but frankly the dump placement is getting to be an irritating issue. Di thought I was doing a special GUE technique twisting round to look up at the surface until I informed her I was merely dislocating my arm slightly to try and dump well.

Basically I think the way the front zip runs over the left shoulder pushes the dump forward with the slight excess arm material (no they haven't quite sorted their MTM out yet).
This means that the dump would have to go some way down the arm to not be affected by the material. Is there an optimum spot for it to go. I know some DUI's seem to have it a long way down the arm but as I only have little arms this may be harder to do (just not as much material).

I was thinking that the right arm might be a good alternative as there is plenty of space that side to get the placement spot on. I know it's not the norm but a number of higher GUE folks do it so it's not totally wrong

The other one I was considering was doing was Andy Georgitsis uses and putting a LP autodump on the forearm area and using it as a cuff dump of sorts. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the benifits/disadvantages of this.

ATB

***ericfine50*** · November 23rd, 2005, 12:12 PM

Good Morning,

I believe the RH side for the dump is ok - they use it for scooter. That way, they do not have to let off the trigger when dumping gas. I have never moved a valve, but hear its not super hard. You could just send it back to PB for the work?

**Alastair** · November 23rd, 2005, 12:13 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete)

Hey folks,

My polar bears suit is pretty good all around but frankly the dump placement is getting to be an irritating issue. Di thought I was doing a special GUE technique twisting round to look up at the surface until I informed her I was merely dislocating my arm slightly to try and dump well.

Basically I think the way the front zip runs over the left shoulder pushes the dump forward with the slight excess arm material (no they haven't quite sorted their MTM out yet).
This means that the dump would have to go some way down the arm to not be affected by the material. Is there an optimum spot for it to go. I know some DUI's seem to have it a long way down the arm but as I only have little arms this may be harder to do (just not as much material).

I was thinking that the right arm might be a good alternative as there is plenty of space that side to get the placement spot on. I know it's not the norm but a number of higher GUE folks do it so it's not totally wrong

The other one I was considering was doing was Andy Georgitsis uses and putting a LP autodump on the forearm area and using it as a cuff dump of sorts. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the benifits/disadvantages of this.

ATB

Hi Pete,

The standard is the left arm but as you say some people use the right arm. I saw some discussion on this a while ago and having the dump for both the wing and drysuit on the left makes it easier to control someone's buoyancy if you are lifting a toxing diver (right hand holds reg in, left controls buoyancy). That makes sense to me. As for the wrist autodump I don't believe that's recommended. I have dived with someone using an ordinary cuff dump and the big problem I saw was when doing a valve drill, when they reached for the left post they lost buoyancy as the suit dumped.

I don't know what the optimum position for the dump should be - best to have a look at AK or Rich's drysuit if you get a chance.

Cheers
Al

Little Pete · November 23rd, 2005, 12:35 PM

Thanks folks. I don't think moving it will be an issue at all.

The cuff dump issue (dumping when shutting left post) I thought of and it makes sense in that way why AG uses a closeable cuff dump.

I will look at and get in touch with some folks and look at getting the RH arm placement. I agree with you Al on the toxing thing so was a little suprised that Casey Mackinley used a RH dump on the 14000ft dive with JJ recently.

Still I'll look at the different options just got intrigued by the AG choice and the R arm thing.

**Alastair** · November 23rd, 2005, 12:41 PM

I guess personal preference is alive and well :D

I'd steer clear of the cuff autodump though George blasted AG on the Gavin Scooters list about so it's definitely a no-no.

Cheers
Al

*Clare Gledhill* · November 23rd, 2005, 12:52 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Alastair)

I have dived with someone using an ordinary cuff dump and the big problem I saw was when doing a valve drill, when they reached for the left post they lost buoyancy as the suit dumped.

That was me - in a rental suit - and it was awful

I couldn't understand why every time I shut my left post I was sinking in the water - but when we surfaced Al explained that the suit had dumped each time I reached back.

Pete - I'm quite convinced that one issue with your suit having seen it is fit, not position of the dump. John Kendall had exacly the same issue with his polar bears suit and resorted to a piece of elastic round the shoulder to stop it ballooning out when air reached the top of the arm.

Having said that, I know you have not had the suit long and wonder whether you also need to take a bit of time to get used to it. Al used to "need" to twist quite violently on ascent to dump his suit but not any more - so it was clearly a technique thing rather than a suit problem. What do you think Al?

*Clare Gledhill* · November 23rd, 2005, 01:25 PM

Hi Pete - I found this exchange on Quest:

Quote: (Originally Posted by Oleg)

Hi all, What would be the preferred side for placement of a dry suit dump valve. Should that be right side so that you can operate it when scootering or would that only apply in the case of a manual dump valve? Any other considerations to take into account? Finally what is a better choice Si-Tech or an older style Apeks.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jarrod Jablonski)

We toyed with the right shoulder so that it could be adjusted while riding a scooter. Personally I found the nonstandard placement more trouble than it was worth. This was particularly true as I had suits with both configurations. I prefer to leave it on the left for uniformity.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Peo)

What were the issues you found? I am currently diving with the valve on the right shoulder. The one thing I have found us that the hose to the backup reg can sometimes snag on the high profile of the Apeks dump valve.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jarrod Jablonski)

I found the same regarding the hose catching on the valve. I also found that having suits with different placements became difficult for little gain. Of course I could have changed all my suits but invariably I would end up using a suit with standard placement. Lastly, while swimming I found the adjustment less convenient given the light in the left.

fraser · November 23rd, 2005, 02:41 PM

AG is not the only guy to site the autodump down on the forearm - and it doesn't require adjusting to manipulate the valves. It's all about the placement of the valve. It is a common config in the Pacific NW I think.

As for it's effectiveness - how many people can press and hold their suit inflate and dump enough gas to remain neutral? AG can.

However as Al says it is not recommended practice. I think it can cause issues in restrictive environments.

Have you ever used a cuff dump Pete?

Cheers,

Fraser.

November 23rd, 2005, 11:51 AM	#1 (permalink)
Little Pete(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 509	Moving my drysuit autodump. Hey folks, My polar bears suit is pretty good all around but frankly the dump placement is getting to be an irritating issue. Di thought I was doing a special GUE technique twisting round to look up at the surface until I informed her I was merely dislocating my arm slightly to try and dump well. Basically I think the way the front zip runs over the left shoulder pushes the dump forward with the slight excess arm material (no they haven't quite sorted their MTM out yet). This means that the dump would have to go some way down the arm to not be affected by the material. Is there an optimum spot for it to go. I know some DUI's seem to have it a long way down the arm but as I only have little arms this may be harder to do (just not as much material). I was thinking that the right arm might be a good alternative as there is plenty of space that side to get the placement spot on. I know it's not the norm but a number of higher GUE folks do it so it's not totally wrong The other one I was considering was doing was Andy Georgitsis uses and putting a LP autodump on the forearm area and using it as a cuff dump of sorts. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the benifits/disadvantages of this. ATB

November 23rd, 2005, 12:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
Alastair(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 693	Quote: (Originally Posted by Little Pete) Hey folks, My polar bears suit is pretty good all around but frankly the dump placement is getting to be an irritating issue. Di thought I was doing a special GUE technique twisting round to look up at the surface until I informed her I was merely dislocating my arm slightly to try and dump well. Basically I think the way the front zip runs over the left shoulder pushes the dump forward with the slight excess arm material (no they haven't quite sorted their MTM out yet). This means that the dump would have to go some way down the arm to not be affected by the material. Is there an optimum spot for it to go. I know some DUI's seem to have it a long way down the arm but as I only have little arms this may be harder to do (just not as much material). I was thinking that the right arm might be a good alternative as there is plenty of space that side to get the placement spot on. I know it's not the norm but a number of higher GUE folks do it so it's not totally wrong The other one I was considering was doing was Andy Georgitsis uses and putting a LP autodump on the forearm area and using it as a cuff dump of sorts. Does anyone have any experience/knowledge of the benifits/disadvantages of this. ATB Hi Pete, The standard is the left arm but as you say some people use the right arm. I saw some discussion on this a while ago and having the dump for both the wing and drysuit on the left makes it easier to control someone's buoyancy if you are lifting a toxing diver (right hand holds reg in, left controls buoyancy). That makes sense to me. As for the wrist autodump I don't believe that's recommended. I have dived with someone using an ordinary cuff dump and the big problem I saw was when doing a valve drill, when they reached for the left post they lost buoyancy as the suit dumped. I don't know what the optimum position for the dump should be - best to have a look at AK or Rich's drysuit if you get a chance. Cheers Al __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3

November 23rd, 2005, 12:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
Alastair(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 693	I guess personal preference is alive and well :D I'd steer clear of the cuff autodump though George blasted AG on the Gavin Scooters list about so it's definitely a no-no. Cheers Al __________________ Helium is our friend - GI3

November 23rd, 2005, 12:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
Clare Gledhill(Offline) GUE Instructor Site Admin Pacman Champion! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,540	Quote: (Originally Posted by Alastair) I have dived with someone using an ordinary cuff dump and the big problem I saw was when doing a valve drill, when they reached for the left post they lost buoyancy as the suit dumped. That was me - in a rental suit - and it was awful I couldn't understand why every time I shut my left post I was sinking in the water - but when we surfaced Al explained that the suit had dumped each time I reached back. Pete - I'm quite convinced that one issue with your suit having seen it is fit, not position of the dump. John Kendall had exacly the same issue with his polar bears suit and resorted to a piece of elastic round the shoulder to stop it ballooning out when air reached the top of the arm. Having said that, I know you have not had the suit long and wonder whether you also need to take a bit of time to get used to it. Al used to "need" to twist quite violently on ascent to dump his suit but not any more - so it was clearly a technique thing rather than a suit problem. What do you think Al? __________________ Clare . "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions....Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great." Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk

November 23rd, 2005, 01:25 PM	#7 (permalink)
Clare Gledhill(Offline) GUE Instructor Site Admin Pacman Champion! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,540	Hi Pete - I found this exchange on Quest: Quote: (Originally Posted by Oleg) Hi all, What would be the preferred side for placement of a dry suit dump valve. Should that be right side so that you can operate it when scootering or would that only apply in the case of a manual dump valve? Any other considerations to take into account? Finally what is a better choice Si-Tech or an older style Apeks. Quote: (Originally Posted by Jarrod Jablonski) We toyed with the right shoulder so that it could be adjusted while riding a scooter. Personally I found the nonstandard placement more trouble than it was worth. This was particularly true as I had suits with both configurations. I prefer to leave it on the left for uniformity. Quote: (Originally Posted by Peo) What were the issues you found? I am currently diving with the valve on the right shoulder. The one thing I have found us that the hose to the backup reg can sometimes snag on the high profile of the Apeks dump valve. Quote: (Originally Posted by Jarrod Jablonski) I found the same regarding the hose catching on the valve. I also found that having suits with different placements became difficult for little gain. Of course I could have changed all my suits but invariably I would end up using a suit with standard placement. Lastly, while swimming I found the adjustment less convenient given the light in the left. __________________ Clare . "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions....Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great." Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk

November 23rd, 2005, 12:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
*ericfine50* (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: MA Posts: 622	Good Morning, I believe the RH side for the dump is ok - they use it for scooter. That way, they do not have to let off the trigger when dumping gas. I have never moved a valve, but hear its not super hard. You could just send it back to PB for the work?

November 23rd, 2005, 12:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
Little Pete(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 509	Thanks folks. I don't think moving it will be an issue at all. The cuff dump issue (dumping when shutting left post) I thought of and it makes sense in that way why AG uses a closeable cuff dump. I will look at and get in touch with some folks and look at getting the RH arm placement. I agree with you Al on the toxing thing so was a little suprised that Casey Mackinley used a RH dump on the 14000ft dive with JJ recently. Still I'll look at the different options just got intrigued by the AG choice and the R arm thing.

November 23rd, 2005, 02:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
fraser(Offline) "I'm only late on your timescale" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 463	AG is not the only guy to site the autodump down on the forearm - and it doesn't require adjusting to manipulate the valves. It's all about the placement of the valve. It is a common config in the Pacific NW I think. As for it's effectiveness - how many people can press and hold their suit inflate and dump enough gas to remain neutral? AG can. However as Al says it is not recommended practice. I think it can cause issues in restrictive environments. Have you ever used a cuff dump Pete? Cheers, Fraser. __________________ Damn it feels good to be a gangsta