Salvo primary lights

digital_steve · April 21st, 2008, 07:09 AM

I'm in the market for a primary light... after pissing about trying to decide which company i should go for, i decided that salvo is the company for me. I bought a couple of rat snr backup torches recently and have been extremely impressed with them, so i figured that their primaries could only be better.
My diving is basically completely open water and during 'light' conditions... so i want a light that is actually going to be useful in these conditions for signalling. I need something that can cut through particles as well, as a lot of my dives are in sandy, crap vis.
Just when i thought that i had the whole primary light thing figured down to a HID, salvo release LED lights

So can people give me some advice on wether or not i should go for a 21w LED or 21w HID salvo torch, based on my diving and what i want to use it for (signalling basically... and well ... lighting up stuff too)?

Thanks in advance

**jb2cool** · April 21st, 2008, 08:38 AM

i myself would go HID. AFAIK the LED's are yet to be proven and precious reports from other companied show that light penetration of LED is not as good as the HID.

aleksi · April 21st, 2008, 09:26 AM

The salvo website says the 21W led outputs 1100 Lumens at 5600 Kelvin vs. the 21W HID that outputs 1500 Lumens at 6500 Kelvin. That is enough reason for me to go with the HID. The led's are definitely evolving quickly though.

-Aleksi

Rob Dobson · April 21st, 2008, 10:27 AM

I really like the look of the new Salvo LEDs but until I see one in the water I'm going to have to say stick with HiD.

Salvo's tech data on the LED lights demonstrate that they put out less light (lumens) than the HiDs, at a cooler colour temp (kelvin), that it is a fixed focus beam (6 degree - less focused than you could get a variable focus light) and uses more energy than the HiD (i.e less burn time off of the same battery).

LEDs are getting better and Salvo's single LED emitter design is a major step forward but I still think HiD is where it's at today. Salvo HiDs are *very* rugged and can easily take the abuse that divers throw at them.

LED emitters may quote long MTBF figures and can generally take even more abuse than the Brightstar HiD bulbs but that doesn't tell the whole story in relation to LEDs. For a start the emitters are coated in order to achieve the beam colour and I'm fairly sure the coating won't last as long as the quoted lifetime figures. Current top end LED emitters are less energy efficient than HiD. They produce more heat which has design implications and requires more electronics to deal with so suddenly there's more to go wrong.

These new Salvo ones have a very compact head and I like the look of that but as most of my diving is scootering around in low visibility trying to hold a team together I really need the most powerful light I can get my mitts on. Right now that's the Salvo 50W HiD but in the absence of that the 21W's do the job nicely.

Jez · April 22nd, 2008, 12:21 AM

hey steve,

I would stick with the 21w HID. as pointed out above the 21w LED isn't quiet up to the HID... yet. I don't think you can go wrong with the 21w HID and if your getting it through dave in perth then your after market support will be excellent cause he's been awesome helping me out with my salvo gear.

Jez.

digital_steve · April 22nd, 2008, 01:03 AM

Hey folks,
Thanks for the replies... opinions are always useful
Jez - Yep, definately getting it from dave and amanda. been faultless so far, so why wouldn't i!?

lizardland · April 22nd, 2008, 10:30 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jb2cool)

show that light penetration of LED is not as good as the HID.

I've got some small LED's that I use for sump diving (helmet mounted

) and I've found the opposite. In low vis I've found that a couple of LED's penetrate better than a HID does. I think it's possibly a combo of good lens design on LED's with the light coming from a small, steady point source. In turbid water underground I like LED's a lot but as soon as you get anywhere with ambient light they seem to get washed out quickly. I don't like dry caving with them either as I find my depth perception isn't as good.

April 21st, 2008, 07:09 AM	#1 (permalink)
digital_steve(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 128	Salvo primary lights I'm in the market for a primary light... after pissing about trying to decide which company i should go for, i decided that salvo is the company for me. I bought a couple of rat snr backup torches recently and have been extremely impressed with them, so i figured that their primaries could only be better. My diving is basically completely open water and during 'light' conditions... so i want a light that is actually going to be useful in these conditions for signalling. I need something that can cut through particles as well, as a lot of my dives are in sandy, crap vis. Just when i thought that i had the whole primary light thing figured down to a HID, salvo release LED lights So can people give me some advice on wether or not i should go for a 21w LED or 21w HID salvo torch, based on my diving and what i want to use it for (signalling basically... and well ... lighting up stuff too)? Thanks in advance

April 21st, 2008, 08:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 796	i myself would go HID. AFAIK the LED's are yet to be proven and precious reports from other companied show that light penetration of LED is not as good as the HID. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com

April 21st, 2008, 09:26 AM	#3 (permalink)
aleksi(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 88	The salvo website says the 21W led outputs 1100 Lumens at 5600 Kelvin vs. the 21W HID that outputs 1500 Lumens at 6500 Kelvin. That is enough reason for me to go with the HID. The led's are definitely evolving quickly though. -Aleksi __________________ "If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water." Loran Eisley, The Immense Journey, 1957

April 21st, 2008, 10:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
Rob Dobson (Online) Chillin' with the ninjas Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 536	I really like the look of the new Salvo LEDs but until I see one in the water I'm going to have to say stick with HiD. Salvo's tech data on the LED lights demonstrate that they put out less light (lumens) than the HiDs, at a cooler colour temp (kelvin), that it is a fixed focus beam (6 degree - less focused than you could get a variable focus light) and uses more energy than the HiD (i.e less burn time off of the same battery). LEDs are getting better and Salvo's single LED emitter design is a major step forward but I still think HiD is where it's at today. Salvo HiDs are very rugged and can easily take the abuse that divers throw at them. LED emitters may quote long MTBF figures and can generally take even more abuse than the Brightstar HiD bulbs but that doesn't tell the whole story in relation to LEDs. For a start the emitters are coated in order to achieve the beam colour and I'm fairly sure the coating won't last as long as the quoted lifetime figures. Current top end LED emitters are less energy efficient than HiD. They produce more heat which has design implications and requires more electronics to deal with so suddenly there's more to go wrong. These new Salvo ones have a very compact head and I like the look of that but as most of my diving is scootering around in low visibility trying to hold a team together I really need the most powerful light I can get my mitts on. Right now that's the Salvo 50W HiD but in the absence of that the 21W's do the job nicely. __________________ --------------------- DIR-RA www.deep-ideas.co.uk www.tecdivers.co.uk. www.unifiedteamdiving.com

April 22nd, 2008, 10:30 AM	#7 (permalink)
lizardland(Offline) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 591	Quote: (Originally Posted by jb2cool) show that light penetration of LED is not as good as the HID. I've got some small LED's that I use for sump diving (helmet mounted ) and I've found the opposite. In low vis I've found that a couple of LED's penetrate better than a HID does. I think it's possibly a combo of good lens design on LED's with the light coming from a small, steady point source. In turbid water underground I like LED's a lot but as soon as you get anywhere with ambient light they seem to get washed out quickly. I don't like dry caving with them either as I find my depth perception isn't as good. __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

April 22nd, 2008, 12:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jez(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sydney, Aust Posts: 21	hey steve, I would stick with the 21w HID. as pointed out above the 21w LED isn't quiet up to the HID... yet. I don't think you can go wrong with the 21w HID and if your getting it through dave in perth then your after market support will be excellent cause he's been awesome helping me out with my salvo gear. Jez.

April 22nd, 2008, 01:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
digital_steve(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 128	Hey folks, Thanks for the replies... opinions are always useful Jez - Yep, definately getting it from dave and amanda. been faultless so far, so why wouldn't i!?