First backplate advice

CWB · March 27th, 2008, 12:57 PM

Hello,
I'm building my first DIR style rig, and could use some advice on backplates. I'm working my way through this transition alone and don't have any other rigs to compare to. I'm in the tropics, and am only diving singles right now.

I'm currently running a Dive-Rite Transpac with a 30 lb lift Venture wing. I've got 2 pounds of non droppable-trim weight on it and the rig weighs in at exactly 10 pounds. I feel perfectly weighted with this outfit.

To keep with overall completed weight about the same, should I go with an alum or steel plate?

I'll probably use the wings off the transpac for now, but will go to a Halcyon or Oxycheq wing in the 30lb range later. I have no idea how much a Hog harness and a small wing weigh in at. I was afraid with an alum it might come out way too light or way too heavy with a steel.

Any recommendations on brand? There seems to be a lot of price disparity and not being able to compare them side by side I have no way of judging if a plate is a plate or if some are better quality than others.

Thanks for your help,
Chris

TobyFish · March 27th, 2008, 02:24 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by CWB)

Hello,
I'm building my first DIR style rig, and could use some advice on backplates. I'm working my way through this transition alone and don't have any other rigs to compare to. I'm in the tropics, and am only diving singles right now.

I'm currently running a Dive-Rite Transpac with a 30 lb lift Venture wing. I've got 2 pounds of non droppable-trim weight on it and the rig weighs in at exactly 10 pounds. I feel perfectly weighted with this outfit.

To keep with overall completed weight about the same, should I go with an alum or steel plate?

I'll probably use the wings off the transpac for now, but will go to a Halcyon or Oxycheq wing in the 30lb range later. I have no idea how much a Hog harness and a small wing weigh in at. I was afraid with an alum it might come out way too light or way too heavy with a steel.

Any recommendations on brand? There seems to be a lot of price disparity and not being able to compare them side by side I have no way of judging if a plate is a plate or if some are better quality than others.

Thanks for your help,
Chris

Plates are pretty much plates apart from the fine detail. For example, Tobin's have overmoulded gromets to reduce harness wear. Lenght and weight are the major variables.

Can I ask why you are going DIR on your own? As a system, it doesn't really make sense without a like-minded team.

*Brian Allen* · March 27th, 2008, 02:48 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by TobyFish)

Plates are pretty much plates apart from the fine detail.

Maybe, but some of the fine detail matters. Frog plates have sharp edges, Custom divers plates are very flat... some don't have the bottom corners turned out.

The Halcyon plates are pretty good in this respect, in that the detail is taken care of.

CWB, in your situation I would dive an Ali plate and probably sling any weight i needed on a belt. You could of course always add it to one of the tank straps, or on your right hand side.

CWB · March 27th, 2008, 02:49 PM

Tobyfish, My wife and I are changing over together. My rig is being built first as the "test platform".

Thanks Brian.

SubAquatic · March 27th, 2008, 04:00 PM

Im with Brian.
Go with an Ally plate, a heavy STA, P-weight or just lead on the cam bands.

Halcyon, Salvo, AGIR-Brok and Edge-HOG make some good quality plates and wings.

The thing to look out for on plates is the edge finish.

**keri.lewis** · March 27th, 2008, 05:23 PM

Personal Rig
I was diving in a 3MM wetsuit plus 3MM hooded vest in the tropics for about 3 years. The rig I required for single Al80 tank was:

6lb Steel Plate
STA - Steel
Wing (in my case 30lb Halcyon)
Regs

This has seen me through several hundred dives comfortably. My Wife dives an identical rig - with 4lbs on the belt as she is a little floatier than me.. female v male anatomy etc.

Comments
I am fairly "sinky" and that allowed me to dive without a weightbelt - always a pleasure - and gave good trim. If I were you, and the option to test was there, I would try both the steel plate and the Ally Plate and see how the weight position impacts your trim. I know people that need 8-10lbs on the belt for the same rig if they use an ally plate. This tends to drag the feet down. The option is to put 4-6lbs on the cam-bands of the STA and the rest on the belt - this may help move the centre of gravity back to the right place.

I used to dive an ally plate with Al80s for doubles. That required 3lbs of weight for empty cylinders. I carried the weight on a weightbelt.

The Ally Plate is good for travel - but I prefer the steel for singles.

LCF · March 27th, 2008, 05:29 PM

Basically, you have a lot of options to add weight to an Al plate setup, and no options to remove it from steel. Al is also considerably less expensive.

When I only had one plate, I dove SS in the tropics. With a 3 mil wetsuit, I needed 2 lbs on the cambands to be weighted perfectly. I've since gone to a Kydex plate, and I use 6 pounds on the cambands, but I got four more pounds of space in my luggage.

I just use XS Scuba weight pouches on the cambands, and get the weights from the dive op. If putting the weight on the rig doesn't work for you from a trim perspective, you can use a weight belt instead. A belt with four pounds in it is not very uncomfortable to wear.

I use a wing that has a tank stabilizer built into it (from Deep Sea Supply), so I have no need of an STA. Makes life simpler.

**zuckerkringel** · March 27th, 2008, 05:32 PM

Yep, Alu-Backplate is the right choice!

In warm water, I´m diving a 3mm Waterproof overall wetsuit, Alu-Bp - 30lb Halcyon Pioneer, 4.5Ah canister and I need no weight.

Best from Vienna, Hubsi

TobinGeorge · March 27th, 2008, 06:36 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by CWB)

Hello,
I'm building my first DIR style rig, and could use some advice on backplates. I'm working my way through this transition alone and don't have any other rigs to compare to. I'm in the tropics, and am only diving singles right now.

I'm currently running a Dive-Rite Transpac with a 30 lb lift Venture wing. I've got 2 pounds of non droppable-trim weight on it and the rig weighs in at exactly 10 pounds. I feel perfectly weighted with this outfit.

To keep with overall completed weight about the same, should I go with an alum or steel plate?

I'll probably use the wings off the transpac for now, but will go to a Halcyon or Oxycheq wing in the 30lb range later. I have no idea how much a Hog harness and a small wing weigh in at. I was afraid with an alum it might come out way too light or way too heavy with a steel.

Any recommendations on brand? There seems to be a lot of price disparity and not being able to compare them side by side I have no way of judging if a plate is a plate or if some are better quality than others.

Thanks for your help,
Chris

You don't mention what you use for an exposure suit or tanks.

In my experience warm water divers using thin suits and buoyant tanks will benefit from a SS plate. Typical al 80 is +4 lbs empty, and a 3mm suit is about +4lbs. A SS plate and harness is -6 lbs, and a regulator is about -2 lbs.

We have many users that dive in tropical conditions with only the a SS plate and reg for ballast.

If OTOH you are using steel tanks and a thin suit, you would be overweighted with a SS plate.

Keep in mind that alum is ~ 165 lbs / cuft and SS is ~495 lbs / cuft. That means in terms of dry travle weight an aluminum plate saves about 2 lbs. In the water a SS plate will be about 4 lbs more negative than a aluminum plate.

It is very likely that you could use a very small wing, as your rig won't be much more than -10 lbs with a full al 80, and your thin exposure suit cannot loose much buoyancy. 30 is way more than you need, more like 17 for warm water.

Tobin

digital_steve · March 27th, 2008, 11:40 PM

Definately take the time to listen to Tobin and have a look at his gear
Althought i don't own a DSS rig, if i was in the market for another i would definately go for DSS. Some of the design features and range are great.

FWIW i own 2 stainless plates and prefer the weight of the SS plate.
When choosing a plate make sure it has all standard holes on it... the zeagle one i have i like, but it doesn't have 7.5" holes along the bottom.

Good luck

March 27th, 2008, 12:57 PM	#1 (permalink)
CWB(Offline) New Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Guam Posts: 15	First backplate advice Hello, I'm building my first DIR style rig, and could use some advice on backplates. I'm working my way through this transition alone and don't have any other rigs to compare to. I'm in the tropics, and am only diving singles right now. I'm currently running a Dive-Rite Transpac with a 30 lb lift Venture wing. I've got 2 pounds of non droppable-trim weight on it and the rig weighs in at exactly 10 pounds. I feel perfectly weighted with this outfit. To keep with overall completed weight about the same, should I go with an alum or steel plate? I'll probably use the wings off the transpac for now, but will go to a Halcyon or Oxycheq wing in the 30lb range later. I have no idea how much a Hog harness and a small wing weigh in at. I was afraid with an alum it might come out way too light or way too heavy with a steel. Any recommendations on brand? There seems to be a lot of price disparity and not being able to compare them side by side I have no way of judging if a plate is a plate or if some are better quality than others. Thanks for your help, Chris

March 27th, 2008, 02:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
TobyFish(Offline) Fine Upstanding Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Telford, UK Posts: 792	Quote: (Originally Posted by CWB) Hello, I'm building my first DIR style rig, and could use some advice on backplates. I'm working my way through this transition alone and don't have any other rigs to compare to. I'm in the tropics, and am only diving singles right now. I'm currently running a Dive-Rite Transpac with a 30 lb lift Venture wing. I've got 2 pounds of non droppable-trim weight on it and the rig weighs in at exactly 10 pounds. I feel perfectly weighted with this outfit. To keep with overall completed weight about the same, should I go with an alum or steel plate? I'll probably use the wings off the transpac for now, but will go to a Halcyon or Oxycheq wing in the 30lb range later. I have no idea how much a Hog harness and a small wing weigh in at. I was afraid with an alum it might come out way too light or way too heavy with a steel. Any recommendations on brand? There seems to be a lot of price disparity and not being able to compare them side by side I have no way of judging if a plate is a plate or if some are better quality than others. Thanks for your help, Chris Plates are pretty much plates apart from the fine detail. For example, Tobin's have overmoulded gromets to reduce harness wear. Lenght and weight are the major variables. Can I ask why you are going DIR on your own? As a system, it doesn't really make sense without a like-minded team. __________________ Rude-boy Volvo "Gangsta Rollin' in me nine-six-oh"

March 27th, 2008, 02:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Brian Allen(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London & Plymouth Posts: 593	Quote: (Originally Posted by TobyFish) Plates are pretty much plates apart from the fine detail. Maybe, but some of the fine detail matters. Frog plates have sharp edges, Custom divers plates are very flat... some don't have the bottom corners turned out. The Halcyon plates are pretty good in this respect, in that the detail is taken care of. CWB, in your situation I would dive an Ali plate and probably sling any weight i needed on a belt. You could of course always add it to one of the tank straps, or on your right hand side. __________________ ...dive planning again ... GUE fundamentals and Halcyon Equipment Online www.ocean-explorers.co.uk

March 27th, 2008, 02:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
CWB(Offline) New Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Guam Posts: 15	Tobyfish, My wife and I are changing over together. My rig is being built first as the "test platform". Thanks Brian. Last edited by CWB; March 27th, 2008 at 02:51 PM.

March 27th, 2008, 04:00 PM	#5 (permalink)
SubAquatic(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Perth Posts: 110	Im with Brian. Go with an Ally plate, a heavy STA, P-weight or just lead on the cam bands. Halcyon, Salvo, AGIR-Brok and Edge-HOG make some good quality plates and wings. The thing to look out for on plates is the edge finish. __________________ www.subaquatic.com.au Australia's Finest Dive Gear

March 27th, 2008, 05:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
keri.lewis (Online) Back in the water.. Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Hampshire Posts: 386	Personal Rig I was diving in a 3MM wetsuit plus 3MM hooded vest in the tropics for about 3 years. The rig I required for single Al80 tank was: 6lb Steel Plate STA - Steel Wing (in my case 30lb Halcyon) Regs This has seen me through several hundred dives comfortably. My Wife dives an identical rig - with 4lbs on the belt as she is a little floatier than me.. female v male anatomy etc. Comments I am fairly "sinky" and that allowed me to dive without a weightbelt - always a pleasure - and gave good trim. If I were you, and the option to test was there, I would try both the steel plate and the Ally Plate and see how the weight position impacts your trim. I know people that need 8-10lbs on the belt for the same rig if they use an ally plate. This tends to drag the feet down. The option is to put 4-6lbs on the cam-bands of the STA and the rest on the belt - this may help move the centre of gravity back to the right place. I used to dive an ally plate with Al80s for doubles. That required 3lbs of weight for empty cylinders. I carried the weight on a weightbelt. The Ally Plate is good for travel - but I prefer the steel for singles. __________________ Even a "bad" day diving beats a day in the office... Keri The more I learn.. the more ignorant I realise I am..

March 27th, 2008, 05:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	Basically, you have a lot of options to add weight to an Al plate setup, and no options to remove it from steel. Al is also considerably less expensive. When I only had one plate, I dove SS in the tropics. With a 3 mil wetsuit, I needed 2 lbs on the cambands to be weighted perfectly. I've since gone to a Kydex plate, and I use 6 pounds on the cambands, but I got four more pounds of space in my luggage. I just use XS Scuba weight pouches on the cambands, and get the weights from the dive op. If putting the weight on the rig doesn't work for you from a trim perspective, you can use a weight belt instead. A belt with four pounds in it is not very uncomfortable to wear. I use a wing that has a tank stabilizer built into it (from Deep Sea Supply), so I have no need of an STA. Makes life simpler. __________________ check out www.divematrix.com "So, it's a good thing to always do the drills the same way . . . but in real life you need to act the right way, whatever that happens to be." LauNar

March 27th, 2008, 05:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
zuckerkringel(Offline) DIRX Supporter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Austria Posts: 82	Yep, Alu-Backplate is the right choice! In warm water, I´m diving a 3mm Waterproof overall wetsuit, Alu-Bp - 30lb Halcyon Pioneer, 4.5Ah canister and I need no weight. Best from Vienna, Hubsi

March 27th, 2008, 06:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
TobinGeorge(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 566	Quote: (Originally Posted by CWB) Hello, I'm building my first DIR style rig, and could use some advice on backplates. I'm working my way through this transition alone and don't have any other rigs to compare to. I'm in the tropics, and am only diving singles right now. I'm currently running a Dive-Rite Transpac with a 30 lb lift Venture wing. I've got 2 pounds of non droppable-trim weight on it and the rig weighs in at exactly 10 pounds. I feel perfectly weighted with this outfit. To keep with overall completed weight about the same, should I go with an alum or steel plate? I'll probably use the wings off the transpac for now, but will go to a Halcyon or Oxycheq wing in the 30lb range later. I have no idea how much a Hog harness and a small wing weigh in at. I was afraid with an alum it might come out way too light or way too heavy with a steel. Any recommendations on brand? There seems to be a lot of price disparity and not being able to compare them side by side I have no way of judging if a plate is a plate or if some are better quality than others. Thanks for your help, Chris You don't mention what you use for an exposure suit or tanks. In my experience warm water divers using thin suits and buoyant tanks will benefit from a SS plate. Typical al 80 is +4 lbs empty, and a 3mm suit is about +4lbs. A SS plate and harness is -6 lbs, and a regulator is about -2 lbs. We have many users that dive in tropical conditions with only the a SS plate and reg for ballast. If OTOH you are using steel tanks and a thin suit, you would be overweighted with a SS plate. Keep in mind that alum is ~ 165 lbs / cuft and SS is ~495 lbs / cuft. That means in terms of dry travle weight an aluminum plate saves about 2 lbs. In the water a SS plate will be about 4 lbs more negative than a aluminum plate. It is very likely that you could use a very small wing, as your rig won't be much more than -10 lbs with a full al 80, and your thin exposure suit cannot loose much buoyancy. 30 is way more than you need, more like 17 for warm water. Tobin __________________ http://www.deepseasupply.com

March 27th, 2008, 11:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
digital_steve(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 128	Definately take the time to listen to Tobin and have a look at his gear Althought i don't own a DSS rig, if i was in the market for another i would definately go for DSS. Some of the design features and range are great. FWIW i own 2 stainless plates and prefer the weight of the SS plate. When choosing a plate make sure it has all standard holes on it... the zeagle one i have i like, but it doesn't have 7.5" holes along the bottom. Good luck