FSR v DS4 v MK25

NarkedAtZero · April 27th, 2007, 03:26 PM

I know everyone loves their DS4s, but does anyone rate the routing with FSR first stages on twins, and would I ever notice the difference? I've seen hose routings for DS4s and Scubapro MK25s online, but never an FSR. I like the look of the FSRs, but would I be better off spending the extra cash on a bottle of very fine wine?

(I'm tossing up between Apeks XTXs with one of the these first stages or a Scubapro MK25 / S600 + s550 setup which I've already tried and liked. I know this comparison has cropped up before, but any new thoughts on this welcome too.)

Thanks all.

Vie · April 30th, 2007, 09:41 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by NarkedAtZero)

I know everyone loves their DS4s, but does anyone rate the routing with FSR first stages on twins, and would I ever notice the difference? I've seen hose routings for DS4s and Scubapro MK25s online, but never an FSR. I like the look of the FSRs, but would I be better off spending the extra cash on a bottle of very fine wine?

With steel tanks (with neck) DS4s or MK20/25s will route very nicely. The new Scubapro MK19s (basically MK19s are MK17s with swivel turret - they route exactly like MK25s) should be good also. FSRs are nice too but pointlessly overpriced and does not leave a lot of room for your head (between the two first stages) compared to FSTs. I've attached a pic of FSR routing (early FSRs had a black glossy coating).

With AL80 doubles, there's less room so I've found that DS4s don't route as well, especially with the Evolve wing. FSRs don't leave a lot of room for your head and MK20/25s are a tight fit. Imho, it's best to use FSTs for AL80 doubles. I've examined a MK19 recently - since it's about an inch shorter than a MK20/25 (measuring from DIN connection point to end of turret) so it should work better on AL80 doubles.

Quote: (Originally Posted by NarkedAtZero)

(I'm tossing up between Apeks XTXs with one of the these first stages or a Scubapro MK25 / S600 + s550 setup which I've already tried and liked. I know this comparison has cropped up before, but any new thoughts on this welcome too.)

I own one XTX second stage and am very happy with it although I'm not a big fan of the new hard plastic exhaust tee - I prefer the soft one on the TX50/100. MK25/S600/S550 is very nice - I've heard that some people have had problems with the MK25/S600 pairing in very cold water, so I would recommend MK25 or MK19 + G250HP (or new G250V) if you must have Scubapro.

Personally, for backgas, I would recommend Apeks FSTs + TX100s without any hesitation.

Michael-Fisch · April 30th, 2007, 10:16 AM

I use Scubapro MK20 1st stages, coupled to Apex TX50 2nd stages, and I love them. I currently have 14 Mk20/TX50 combos, 4 DST/TX50 combos and 3 no name Argon regs. The MK20/TX50 combos are dived every week and go 4-5 years between 1st stage rebuilds, the DST/TX50 combos get wet 1-2 times a year, and need a 1st stage rebuild every 2-3 years or every time the inside of the DST gets wet.

Ask me which 1st stages I like better!

Buy Scubapro 1st stages, Apeks 2nd stages, and Uwatec Master Diver SPGs and you will have the best of all worlds.

Michael

nskdrs · May 2nd, 2007, 02:22 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Michael-Fisch)

I use Scubapro MK20 1st stages, coupled to Apex TX50 2nd stages, and I love them. I currently have 14 Mk20/TX50 combos, 4 DST/TX50 combos and 3 no name Argon regs. The MK20/TX50 combos are dived every week and go 4-5 years between 1st stage rebuilds, the DST/TX50 combos get wet 1-2 times a year, and need a 1st stage rebuild every 2-3 years or every time the inside of the DST gets wet.

Ask me which 1st stages I like better!

Buy Scubapro 1st stages, Apeks 2nd stages, and Uwatec Master Diver SPGs and you will have the best of all worlds.

Michael

Ah,
asked about that combo in another reg-thread on here.
IP-pressure arround 8,5-9bar, I assume?
Any thoughts about MK25 or MK 19?

Thx,
hoffi

Michael-Fisch · May 2nd, 2007, 08:25 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Michael-Fisch)

I use Scubapro MK20 1st stages, coupled to Apex TX50 2nd stages, and I love them. I currently have 14 Mk20/TX50 combos, 4 DST/TX50 combos and 3 no name Argon regs. The MK20/TX50 combos are dived every week and go 4-5 years between 1st stage rebuilds, the DST/TX50 combos get wet 1-2 times a year, and need a 1st stage rebuild every 2-3 years or every time the inside of the DST gets wet.

Ask me which 1st stages I like better!

Buy Scubapro 1st stages, Apeks 2nd stages, and Uwatec Master Diver SPGs and you will have the best of all worlds.

Michael

I lied,
I now also have a very early model Le Spirotechniqe Royal Mistral DIN double hose regulator in perfect-almost new condition, although it's 45 years old. Dove it yesterday to 20M and must say it's been a long time since I had so much fun

@ Hoffi
IP on my Scubapros is set between 9 and 9,5 Bar.
I prefer Piston regs for use underwater, after long experience with diaphram seats failing with cave fills, I don't like diaphram regulators. The Apeks diaphram doesn't fail at high pressures, but the stem will stick in the tube after getting the inside of the DS4, DST, and FSR regs wet. For me, the Scubapro piston is more reliable.
I have no experience with the MK 25, but since it is the current model Scubapro, I have to assume that the previous model was better.

Michael

nskdrs · May 3rd, 2007, 10:05 AM

Thanks Michael

NarkedAtZero · May 5th, 2007, 08:28 PM

Thanks everyone - isn't it always the way that more answers provide more questions?

Quote: (Originally Posted by Vie)

I own one XTX second stage and am very happy with it although I'm not a big fan of the new hard plastic exhaust tee - I prefer the soft one on the TX50/100. MK25/S600/S550 is very nice - I've heard that some people have had problems with the MK25/S600 pairing in very cold water, so I would recommend MK25 or MK19 + G250HP (or new G250V) if you must have Scubapro.

Personally, for backgas, I would recommend Apeks FSTs + TX100s without any hesitation.

Thanks for the picture Vie, and for the idea of FSTs too which look much more like it, I don't know why I hadn't thought of them - you don't have a pic of routing for them knocking around, do you? :-)

I'd heard the cold water thing about the MK25/S600 too - so do I take it from what you say that the S600's the weak point here, and the G250 is better suited for cold water then?

My current thinking is that if I don't notice much difference between the Apeks breathe and the Scubapro one then I'll probably plump for the one with the neatest routing - I'm new to twins and wonder if I wouldn't really notice the differences between them until I got some diving under my belt.

Nick

Vie · May 5th, 2007, 08:49 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by NarkedAtZero)

Thanks for the picture Vie, and for the idea of FSTs too which look much more like it, I don't know why I hadn't thought of them - you don't have a pic of routing for them knocking around, do you? :-)

My rig: FSTs/Evolve 40 on AL80 doubles. See post #10 in link below...

Evolve wing using DS4 stages - hose routing pics

Below is a link to FSTs/Explorer pics...

gue.com/Expeditions/WKPP/Equipment/equipmentimages.htm

If you look at my profile pic, you can see how the FSTs leave room for your head.

http://www.direxplorers.com/members/vie.html

Quote: (Originally Posted by NarkedAtZero)

I'd heard the cold water thing about the MK25/S600 too - so do I take it from what you say that the S600's the weak point here, and the G250 is better suited for cold water then?:-)

That's what I've been told, yes - MK25 is better paired with G250/G250HP/G250V for use in very cold water.

April 27th, 2007, 03:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
NarkedAtZero(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK Posts: 4	FSR v DS4 v MK25 I know everyone loves their DS4s, but does anyone rate the routing with FSR first stages on twins, and would I ever notice the difference? I've seen hose routings for DS4s and Scubapro MK25s online, but never an FSR. I like the look of the FSRs, but would I be better off spending the extra cash on a bottle of very fine wine? (I'm tossing up between Apeks XTXs with one of the these first stages or a Scubapro MK25 / S600 + s550 setup which I've already tried and liked. I know this comparison has cropped up before, but any new thoughts on this welcome too.) Thanks all.

April 30th, 2007, 10:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
Michael-Fisch(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 264	I use Scubapro MK20 1st stages, coupled to Apex TX50 2nd stages, and I love them. I currently have 14 Mk20/TX50 combos, 4 DST/TX50 combos and 3 no name Argon regs. The MK20/TX50 combos are dived every week and go 4-5 years between 1st stage rebuilds, the DST/TX50 combos get wet 1-2 times a year, and need a 1st stage rebuild every 2-3 years or every time the inside of the DST gets wet. Ask me which 1st stages I like better! Buy Scubapro 1st stages, Apeks 2nd stages, and Uwatec Master Diver SPGs and you will have the best of all worlds. Michael Last edited by Michael-Fisch; April 30th, 2007 at 10:20 AM.

May 2nd, 2007, 08:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
Michael-Fisch(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 264	Quote: (Originally Posted by Michael-Fisch) I use Scubapro MK20 1st stages, coupled to Apex TX50 2nd stages, and I love them. I currently have 14 Mk20/TX50 combos, 4 DST/TX50 combos and 3 no name Argon regs. The MK20/TX50 combos are dived every week and go 4-5 years between 1st stage rebuilds, the DST/TX50 combos get wet 1-2 times a year, and need a 1st stage rebuild every 2-3 years or every time the inside of the DST gets wet. Ask me which 1st stages I like better! Buy Scubapro 1st stages, Apeks 2nd stages, and Uwatec Master Diver SPGs and you will have the best of all worlds. Michael I lied, I now also have a very early model Le Spirotechniqe Royal Mistral DIN double hose regulator in perfect-almost new condition, although it's 45 years old. Dove it yesterday to 20M and must say it's been a long time since I had so much fun @ Hoffi IP on my Scubapros is set between 9 and 9,5 Bar. I prefer Piston regs for use underwater, after long experience with diaphram seats failing with cave fills, I don't like diaphram regulators. The Apeks diaphram doesn't fail at high pressures, but the stem will stick in the tube after getting the inside of the DS4, DST, and FSR regs wet. For me, the Scubapro piston is more reliable. I have no experience with the MK 25, but since it is the current model Scubapro, I have to assume that the previous model was better. Michael Last edited by Michael-Fisch; May 2nd, 2007 at 08:36 PM.

May 5th, 2007, 08:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Vie(Offline) Loner at the ball... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Krung Thep, Siam, mostly Posts: 191	Quote: (Originally Posted by NarkedAtZero) Thanks for the picture Vie, and for the idea of FSTs too which look much more like it, I don't know why I hadn't thought of them - you don't have a pic of routing for them knocking around, do you? :-) My rig: FSTs/Evolve 40 on AL80 doubles. See post #10 in link below... Evolve wing using DS4 stages - hose routing pics Below is a link to FSTs/Explorer pics... gue.com/Expeditions/WKPP/Equipment/equipmentimages.htm If you look at my profile pic, you can see how the FSTs leave room for your head. http://www.direxplorers.com/members/vie.html Quote: (Originally Posted by NarkedAtZero) I'd heard the cold water thing about the MK25/S600 too - so do I take it from what you say that the S600's the weak point here, and the G250 is better suited for cold water then?:-) That's what I've been told, yes - MK25 is better paired with G250/G250HP/G250V for use in very cold water. Last edited by Vie; May 5th, 2007 at 08:56 PM.

May 2nd, 2007, 02:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
nskdrs(Offline) Towboy Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: berlin, europe Posts: 248	Quote: (Originally Posted by Michael-Fisch) I use Scubapro MK20 1st stages, coupled to Apex TX50 2nd stages, and I love them. I currently have 14 Mk20/TX50 combos, 4 DST/TX50 combos and 3 no name Argon regs. The MK20/TX50 combos are dived every week and go 4-5 years between 1st stage rebuilds, the DST/TX50 combos get wet 1-2 times a year, and need a 1st stage rebuild every 2-3 years or every time the inside of the DST gets wet. Ask me which 1st stages I like better! Buy Scubapro 1st stages, Apeks 2nd stages, and Uwatec Master Diver SPGs and you will have the best of all worlds. Michael Ah, asked about that combo in another reg-thread on here. IP-pressure arround 8,5-9bar, I assume? Any thoughts about MK25 or MK 19? Thx, hoffi

May 3rd, 2007, 10:05 AM	#6 (permalink)
nskdrs(Offline) Towboy Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: berlin, europe Posts: 248	Thanks Michael

May 5th, 2007, 08:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
NarkedAtZero(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK Posts: 4	Thanks everyone - isn't it always the way that more answers provide more questions? Quote: (Originally Posted by Vie) I own one XTX second stage and am very happy with it although I'm not a big fan of the new hard plastic exhaust tee - I prefer the soft one on the TX50/100. MK25/S600/S550 is very nice - I've heard that some people have had problems with the MK25/S600 pairing in very cold water, so I would recommend MK25 or MK19 + G250HP (or new G250V) if you must have Scubapro. Personally, for backgas, I would recommend Apeks FSTs + TX100s without any hesitation. Thanks for the picture Vie, and for the idea of FSTs too which look much more like it, I don't know why I hadn't thought of them - you don't have a pic of routing for them knocking around, do you? :-) I'd heard the cold water thing about the MK25/S600 too - so do I take it from what you say that the S600's the weak point here, and the G250 is better suited for cold water then? My current thinking is that if I don't notice much difference between the Apeks breathe and the Scubapro one then I'll probably plump for the one with the neatest routing - I'm new to twins and wonder if I wouldn't really notice the differences between them until I got some diving under my belt. Nick