What's a 40lb Eclipse for?

*Brian Allen* · April 17th, 2007, 12:03 PM

Someone just asked me "why do they make Eclipse 40lb wings for single tanks" and I couldn't answer them. Anyone have any ideas? Is there a DIR reason to have a 40?

Brian

Gareth Burrows · April 17th, 2007, 12:35 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A)

Someone just asked me "why do they make Eclipse 40lb wings for single tanks" and I couldn't answer them. Anyone have any ideas? Is there a DIR reason to have a 40?

Brian

This one came up at the weekend. And we didn't know either.

Garf

GLOC · April 17th, 2007, 12:46 PM

Single 18 for an air pig

I haven't seen the shape of the Eclipse 40 but as was pointed out on another thread, do US cylinders have a wider diameter and as such not work that well with the smaller single cylinder wings?

Mal Bridgeman · April 17th, 2007, 12:53 PM

I am not sure all Halcyon kit is "DIR" therefore there may not be a DIR answer?

Mal

NickB · April 17th, 2007, 12:58 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman)

I am not sure all Halcyon kit is "DIR" therefore there may not be a DIR answer

Surf Shuttle anyone?

I see the Pound Sterling has broken through the $2 barrier for the first time in 15 years. We should see those Halcyon prices start to drop pretty soon now

GLOC · April 17th, 2007, 01:32 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by NickB)

I see the Pound Sterling has broken through the $2 barrier for the first time in 15 years. We should see those Halcyon prices start to drop pretty soon now

Really....

GoDiva · April 17th, 2007, 02:08 PM

might doube 7's work on it?

TobinGeorge · April 17th, 2007, 03:59 PM

I can't speak for Halcyon, but I can tell you why I offer a single tank wing with 40 lbs of lift;

Big guy with thick neoprene. A larger person with a 7mm full suit with maybe a hooded vest might have enough neoprene that his suit is 35-40 lbs buoyant.

That means the diver will also need a great deal of ballast. Typically some of this ballast will be attached o the rig, and some will be on a weight belt. The size, and material type of the tank is usually not important, lightweight tanks just mean more ballast elsewhere, and even with truely negative tanks if you need 35-40 lbs of ballast to descend you will have significant ballast inaddition to your cylinder and backplate.

We don't sell many 40's (it' pretty hard to talk me into it

) but there is a legitimate application for them.

Tobin

Joe Hesketh · April 17th, 2007, 04:02 PM

I guess the genesis of the Eclipse 40 in their current line-up were the larger Pioneer wings which came in 36 and 45 (yikes!) sizes. The blurb from the 2002 catalogue said:

"The 36 lbs. wing is designed for use in cold water where heavy exposure protection with steel cylinders is the norm. Bellowed side panels on the 36 lbs. wing increase lift at the waist, improving trim for those wearing heavy weight belts. Like the 27 lbs. wing, the 36 lbs. wing also features a circular buoyancy tube for ultimate stability in the water.

The Pioneer 45 wing is specifically designed for extreme cold water use or where lift must be capable of offsetting unusual amounts of applied ballast. This system is not recommended for typical recreational diving."

Some other general points (some of which are pure speculation on my part so don’t quote me).

Going back further (e.g. the 1997 line-up) the emphasis seemed to be on a modular system of wings that gradually increased in buoyancy to suit the environment or use (both the single tank and doubles wings were made in about four different sizes) whereas now the range seems to have settled out into just two per style. The larger wing might be an evolutionary leftover from having a larger range.

The buoyancy figure may be a function of the shape rather than the other way around. So a larger wing might be 36 or 40lb for instance but might have the same width or other critical dimension. If so, it would be strange to call the larger of those two wings “too large” just on the numbers alone.

On the other hand I have a feeling that the buoyancy figures may be either or both approximate or simply random. For example, the old 55lb doubles wing was actually nearer to 45lb of lift and is physically smaller than the 55lb Explorer sold today. The 40lb Eclipse might be similar to say the 36lb Pioneer but is listed as a 40 to keep the numbers in the catalogue easier (in the same way that an S080 tank is really 77.4 cuft).

All that said, I can’t think where you’d need the extra lift. Even if you dived with a huge pressed steel tank that was very negative, you’d also be carrying less lead? I recently saw that Halcyon quietly dropped the Explorer 70 from the range. Maybe the Eclipse 40 will silently suffer the same fate.

Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC · April 17th, 2007, 04:07 PM

Lift is a main marketing tool.

April 17th, 2007, 12:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
Brian Allen(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London & Plymouth Posts: 593	What's a 40lb Eclipse for? Someone just asked me "why do they make Eclipse 40lb wings for single tanks" and I couldn't answer them. Anyone have any ideas? Is there a DIR reason to have a 40? Brian __________________ ...dive planning again ... GUE fundamentals and Halcyon Equipment Online www.ocean-explorers.co.uk

April 17th, 2007, 12:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Gareth Burrows(Offline) Chimp 2 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Horsham, West Sussex Posts: 365	Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A) Someone just asked me "why do they make Eclipse 40lb wings for single tanks" and I couldn't answer them. Anyone have any ideas? Is there a DIR reason to have a 40? Brian This one came up at the weekend. And we didn't know either. Garf __________________ Garf Amusing and Clever Signature under construction.

April 17th, 2007, 12:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
GLOC (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,952	Single 18 for an air pig I haven't seen the shape of the Eclipse 40 but as was pointed out on another thread, do US cylinders have a wider diameter and as such not work that well with the smaller single cylinder wings? __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

April 17th, 2007, 12:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mal Bridgeman(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 662	I am not sure all Halcyon kit is "DIR" therefore there may not be a DIR answer? Mal __________________ Opinions and beliefs are correct at the time of posting but are subject to change without any notice or obligation on the part of the author.

April 17th, 2007, 12:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
NickB(Offline) Always lowering the tone Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 340	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman) I am not sure all Halcyon kit is "DIR" therefore there may not be a DIR answer Surf Shuttle anyone? I see the Pound Sterling has broken through the $2 barrier for the first time in 15 years. We should see those Halcyon prices start to drop pretty soon now __________________ SnowHeads / BreastFriends / Free Money!

April 17th, 2007, 01:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
GLOC (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,952	Quote: (Originally Posted by NickB) I see the Pound Sterling has broken through the $2 barrier for the first time in 15 years. We should see those Halcyon prices start to drop pretty soon now Really.... __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

April 17th, 2007, 02:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
GoDiva(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 540	might doube 7's work on it? __________________ "Miss Dodgy-Pockets" or "Miss Lime-Green, Clear-Skirt Mask"

April 17th, 2007, 03:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
TobinGeorge(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 566	I can't speak for Halcyon, but I can tell you why I offer a single tank wing with 40 lbs of lift; Big guy with thick neoprene. A larger person with a 7mm full suit with maybe a hooded vest might have enough neoprene that his suit is 35-40 lbs buoyant. That means the diver will also need a great deal of ballast. Typically some of this ballast will be attached o the rig, and some will be on a weight belt. The size, and material type of the tank is usually not important, lightweight tanks just mean more ballast elsewhere, and even with truely negative tanks if you need 35-40 lbs of ballast to descend you will have significant ballast inaddition to your cylinder and backplate. We don't sell many 40's (it' pretty hard to talk me into it ) but there is a legitimate application for them. Tobin __________________ http://www.deepseasupply.com

April 17th, 2007, 04:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
Joe Hesketh(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 657	I guess the genesis of the Eclipse 40 in their current line-up were the larger Pioneer wings which came in 36 and 45 (yikes!) sizes. The blurb from the 2002 catalogue said: "The 36 lbs. wing is designed for use in cold water where heavy exposure protection with steel cylinders is the norm. Bellowed side panels on the 36 lbs. wing increase lift at the waist, improving trim for those wearing heavy weight belts. Like the 27 lbs. wing, the 36 lbs. wing also features a circular buoyancy tube for ultimate stability in the water. The Pioneer 45 wing is specifically designed for extreme cold water use or where lift must be capable of offsetting unusual amounts of applied ballast. This system is not recommended for typical recreational diving." Some other general points (some of which are pure speculation on my part so don’t quote me). Going back further (e.g. the 1997 line-up) the emphasis seemed to be on a modular system of wings that gradually increased in buoyancy to suit the environment or use (both the single tank and doubles wings were made in about four different sizes) whereas now the range seems to have settled out into just two per style. The larger wing might be an evolutionary leftover from having a larger range. The buoyancy figure may be a function of the shape rather than the other way around. So a larger wing might be 36 or 40lb for instance but might have the same width or other critical dimension. If so, it would be strange to call the larger of those two wings “too large” just on the numbers alone. On the other hand I have a feeling that the buoyancy figures may be either or both approximate or simply random. For example, the old 55lb doubles wing was actually nearer to 45lb of lift and is physically smaller than the 55lb Explorer sold today. The 40lb Eclipse might be similar to say the 36lb Pioneer but is listed as a 40 to keep the numbers in the catalogue easier (in the same way that an S080 tank is really 77.4 cuft). All that said, I can’t think where you’d need the extra lift. Even if you dived with a huge pressed steel tank that was very negative, you’d also be carrying less lead? I recently saw that Halcyon quietly dropped the Explorer 70 from the range. Maybe the Eclipse 40 will silently suffer the same fate.

April 17th, 2007, 04:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ahmed Adly, Marlin Inn DC(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: hurghada Posts: 849	Lift is a main marketing tool. __________________ It has just dawned on me.... We are all just recycled stardust Ahmed Adly, www.deepvoyage.com