undergarment question

scuba.jim · November 28th, 2005, 05:21 PM

Hi all,

Just curious...

I've been diving a DUI polartec 300 for years now, and have only recently experienced my first dry suit flood (bad wrist seal - now repaired).

After my dive, my dive partner said that I should be diving the DUI G400 (Thinsulate) as it is warmer when wet... Like I said, I've never been wet, and I've never been cold as well. However, I did feel a chill that day...

When I purchased it (the polartec), I was under the understanding that both retained their warmth when wet. I would have thought that the main difference was "how much" warmth is retained... Am I wrong?

Thanks,

Jim

***ericfine50*** · November 28th, 2005, 05:30 PM

Jim,

First - welcome to the board.

Secondly- to better answer your question, what are the water temps you are diving in. If the water is in the 50s and 60s, the 400G would be overkill. Thinsulate has better insulation properties when wet. Type B is very good when wet.

Hope this helps a bit.
Eric

*Clare Gledhill* · November 28th, 2005, 05:37 PM

You can of course get 200 gramme thinsulates too... if you are one of those lucky people who live where the water is warmer

*hint* fill out your profiles so that people know where you are based then advice can be location specific*

Thinsulate used by DUI (and everyone else as I understand it) is made by 3M. The type B 400gm resists compression (B stands for "Boot" and thus has been designed for this purpose) The dense fibre also resists saturation if flooded - absorbing less than 1 per cent water/weight.

If an undersuit is expensive - it is probably Type B... or DUI... or both :D

***Bob Cooper*** · November 28th, 2005, 05:45 PM

3M developed that material (the Type B) for mopping up oil spills on water (seriously).

If you have a quantity of oil spilled on water it (the oil) will float on the surface of the water. The 3M material (in the shape of a sausage) is used to float on the surface of the water and absorb the oil.

The reason it floats on the surface of the water is because it repels the water. It is very difficult to sink a type b thinsulate. That quality makes it good for retaining its insulation characteristics when wet.

Bob

scuba.jim · November 28th, 2005, 07:19 PM

Thanks everyone.

I don't think I got a 100% answer on the polartec, but it is obvious that the Thinsolate is preferred.

As well, to answer questions about my diving - N. FLA caves... 68 to 72 year round. I use/need the exposure suit due to duration - deco and all...

Specifically, can someone tell me if polartec looses it heat retaining ability when wet? Again, I don't think it does... (But it does sound like the 200g "B" Thinsolate is the way to go on replacement...)

Thanks again all,

Jim

***Bob Cooper*** · November 28th, 2005, 07:26 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by scuba.jim)

to answer questions about my diving - N. FLA caves... 68 to 72 year round. I use/need the exposure suit due to duration - deco and all...

Hi Jim

N Florida caves eh? you lucky dog!

I've used 200g type B successfully for some 2-3h dives there in the past without any issues. For anything longer than that I'd be happier in my 400g.

I've seen the polartec (is that the green one?) used there too. My cave instructor (Tyler Moon) used to wear one (well, the green one anyway).

Anyway, I reckon he doesn't feel the cold too much. I did a scooter workshop with him a couple of years back and he spent about 2hours in the Ginnie basin with just a pair of shorts and a t-shirt!!

brrrr!

Bob

Joe Hesketh · November 28th, 2005, 07:37 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by scuba.jim)

[...] it does sound like the 200g "B" Thinsolate is the way to go on replacement...

Just to be pedantic (sorry everyone

) and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the "B" grade (B stands for "boot" as it's used in footwear) thinsulate (which 3M also call 'Thinsulate Ultra') is only used by DUI in the 400g suit (though why DUI also used to call this C4 beats the hell out of me...?

)

The 200g suit on the other hand is "C" grade thinsulate (note the lack of the "Ultra" in the product description, which (and this is what Dave (the younger) from Polar Bears told me) has the same TOG rating as 400g/m2 of B grade, but half the weight - the remaining warmth being acheived through loft (negated if you fly the suit tight).

Joe

***Bob Cooper*** · November 28th, 2005, 07:41 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Joe Hesketh)

Just to be pedantic (sorry everyone

) and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the "B" grade (B stands for "boot" as it's used in footwear) thinsulate (which 3M also call 'Thinsulate Ultra') is only used by DUI in the 400g suit (though why DUI also used to call this C4 beats the hell out of me...?

)

The 200g suit on the other hand is "C" grade thinsulate (note the lack of the "Ultra" in the product description, which (and this is what Dave (the younger) from Polar Bears told me) has the same TOG rating as 400g/m2 of B grade, but half the weight - the remaining warmth being acheived through loft (negated if you fly the suit tight).

Joe

I must admit, I had always *assumed* that the 200g material was Type B, just like the 400g, only less of it.

It certainly looks the same, and is just as difficult to get wet.

Nevertheless, this is good information and worthy of discussion.

Bob

*Clare Gledhill* · November 28th, 2005, 07:46 PM

And to complicate matters further - I have a 300 gramme Ultra - which I bought and have never seen advertised again... I have no idea what it's made of but it's an OK summer undersuit.

***ericfine50*** · November 28th, 2005, 07:51 PM

Interesting. I never saw a 300G here in the US. Wonder if they were test marketing it in the UK?? Someone could email DUI - They are very good in answering questions.

November 28th, 2005, 05:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
scuba.jim(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: underwater - FLA caves Posts: 4	undergarment question Hi all, Just curious... I've been diving a DUI polartec 300 for years now, and have only recently experienced my first dry suit flood (bad wrist seal - now repaired). After my dive, my dive partner said that I should be diving the DUI G400 (Thinsulate) as it is warmer when wet... Like I said, I've never been wet, and I've never been cold as well. However, I did feel a chill that day... When I purchased it (the polartec), I was under the understanding that both retained their warmth when wet. I would have thought that the main difference was "how much" warmth is retained... Am I wrong? Thanks, Jim

November 28th, 2005, 05:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
Clare Gledhill(Offline) GUE Instructor Site Admin Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,547	You can of course get 200 gramme thinsulates too... if you are one of those lucky people who live where the water is warmer hint fill out your profiles so that people know where you are based then advice can be location specific* Thinsulate used by DUI (and everyone else as I understand it) is made by 3M. The type B 400gm resists compression (B stands for "Boot" and thus has been designed for this purpose) The dense fibre also resists saturation if flooded - absorbing less than 1 per cent water/weight. If an undersuit is expensive - it is probably Type B... or DUI... or both :D __________________ Clare . "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions....Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great." Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk

November 28th, 2005, 07:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
scuba.jim(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: underwater - FLA caves Posts: 4	re: undergarment question Thanks everyone. I don't think I got a 100% answer on the polartec, but it is obvious that the Thinsolate is preferred. As well, to answer questions about my diving - N. FLA caves... 68 to 72 year round. I use/need the exposure suit due to duration - deco and all... Specifically, can someone tell me if polartec looses it heat retaining ability when wet? Again, I don't think it does... (But it does sound like the 200g "B" Thinsolate is the way to go on replacement...) Thanks again all, Jim Last edited by scuba.jim; November 29th, 2005 at 05:49 AM. Reason: Spelling check... I like to be tidy...

November 28th, 2005, 07:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
Clare Gledhill(Offline) GUE Instructor Site Admin Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,547	And to complicate matters further - I have a 300 gramme Ultra - which I bought and have never seen advertised again... I have no idea what it's made of but it's an OK summer undersuit. __________________ Clare . "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions....Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great." Interested in DIR dive training? Always happy to chat/answer questions so get in touch via PM or visit www.dirdiver.co.uk

November 28th, 2005, 05:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
*ericfine50*(Offline) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: MA Posts: 622	Jim, First - welcome to the board. Secondly- to better answer your question, what are the water temps you are diving in. If the water is in the 50s and 60s, the 400G would be overkill. Thinsulate has better insulation properties when wet. Type B is very good when wet. Hope this helps a bit. Eric

November 28th, 2005, 05:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
*Bob Cooper*(Offline) Moderator - "Don't stop me now!" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: South East London, UK Posts: 685	3M developed that material (the Type B) for mopping up oil spills on water (seriously). If you have a quantity of oil spilled on water it (the oil) will float on the surface of the water. The 3M material (in the shape of a sausage) is used to float on the surface of the water and absorb the oil. The reason it floats on the surface of the water is because it repels the water. It is very difficult to sink a type b thinsulate. That quality makes it good for retaining its insulation characteristics when wet. Bob

November 28th, 2005, 07:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
*Bob Cooper*(Offline) Moderator - "Don't stop me now!" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: South East London, UK Posts: 685	Quote: (Originally Posted by scuba.jim) to answer questions about my diving - N. FLA caves... 68 to 72 year round. I use/need the exposure suit due to duration - deco and all... Hi Jim N Florida caves eh? you lucky dog! I've used 200g type B successfully for some 2-3h dives there in the past without any issues. For anything longer than that I'd be happier in my 400g. I've seen the polartec (is that the green one?) used there too. My cave instructor (Tyler Moon) used to wear one (well, the green one anyway). Anyway, I reckon he doesn't feel the cold too much. I did a scooter workshop with him a couple of years back and he spent about 2hours in the Ginnie basin with just a pair of shorts and a t-shirt!! brrrr! Bob

November 28th, 2005, 07:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Joe Hesketh(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 658	Quote: (Originally Posted by scuba.jim) [...] it does sound like the 200g "B" Thinsolate is the way to go on replacement... Just to be pedantic (sorry everyone ) and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the "B" grade (B stands for "boot" as it's used in footwear) thinsulate (which 3M also call 'Thinsulate Ultra') is only used by DUI in the 400g suit (though why DUI also used to call this C4 beats the hell out of me...? ) The 200g suit on the other hand is "C" grade thinsulate (note the lack of the "Ultra" in the product description, which (and this is what Dave (the younger) from Polar Bears told me) has the same TOG rating as 400g/m2 of B grade, but half the weight - the remaining warmth being acheived through loft (negated if you fly the suit tight). Joe

November 28th, 2005, 07:41 PM	#8 (permalink)
*Bob Cooper*(Offline) Moderator - "Don't stop me now!" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: South East London, UK Posts: 685	Quote: (Originally Posted by Joe Hesketh) Just to be pedantic (sorry everyone ) and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the "B" grade (B stands for "boot" as it's used in footwear) thinsulate (which 3M also call 'Thinsulate Ultra') is only used by DUI in the 400g suit (though why DUI also used to call this C4 beats the hell out of me...? ) The 200g suit on the other hand is "C" grade thinsulate (note the lack of the "Ultra" in the product description, which (and this is what Dave (the younger) from Polar Bears told me) has the same TOG rating as 400g/m2 of B grade, but half the weight - the remaining warmth being acheived through loft (negated if you fly the suit tight). Joe I must admit, I had always assumed that the 200g material was Type B, just like the 400g, only less of it. It certainly looks the same, and is just as difficult to get wet. Nevertheless, this is good information and worthy of discussion. Bob

November 28th, 2005, 07:51 PM	#10 (permalink)
*ericfine50*(Offline) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: MA Posts: 622	Interesting. I never saw a 300G here in the US. Wonder if they were test marketing it in the UK?? Someone could email DUI - They are very good in answering questions.