Undersuit, how tight can i run it?

**jb2cool** · August 25th, 2006, 11:20 AM

After trying on my new TLS350 and it seems to be a pretty good fit i'm having doubts that i'll fit a Santi undersuit or any other form of 'high loft' undersuit on underneath this suit. I think i might have to plump for Xerotherm Arctics as an undersuit as i just don't think anything else will fit without potentially restricting movement.

My question is really, Has anyone got a traditional undersuit (Largeish size) that i could try underneath this suit to see if i can fit it in.

Also views and oppinions on undersuits are welcomed.

NickB · August 25th, 2006, 11:28 AM

I wouldn't call thinsulate 'hi-loft'.

It's more like thick felt and doesn't really loft at all. It is thicker than a Xerotherm Arctic though, even in the 200g flavour, but in all but summer conditions in the UK an Arctic on its own wouldn't be sufficient; unless you're very well covered in 'bioprene'.

Lou · August 25th, 2006, 11:36 AM

Is your new suit MTM or off the shelf? I would say that if you can't fit a thinsulate under it then it probably isn't big enough for you. I wear Arctics all year, but add thermals under them in the winter, but then I do have bioprene as Nick so nicely puts it!

It would also limit my time in the water in the winter, if my hands didn't already. I wouldn't be happy with more than an hour in 5 degrees.

Rob Dobson · August 25th, 2006, 11:58 AM

I need Xerotherms, Artics and PBB in moderately cold waters (say 7C) with a membrane.

I am going to invest in a Santi 400g to get me through the winter...

fraser · August 25th, 2006, 12:21 PM

Jason,

I have a 200g stretch thinsulate that you are welcome to try under your suit at some point... it is relatively low profile. However, I would also say that a) you can't get them here in the UK and b) you'll freeze your butt off in just the 200g suit during winter.

Cheers,

Fraser.

**neilh** · August 25th, 2006, 12:23 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rob Dobson)

I am going to invest in a Santi 400g to get me through the winter...

I've been thinking about it - I still feel the cold with normal xerotherms and the RoHo thermocline undersuit.

I'm just a wuss tho!

**jb2cool** · August 25th, 2006, 12:57 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by NickB)

I wouldn't call thinsulate 'hi-loft'.

It's more like thick felt and doesn't really loft at all. It is thicker than a Xerotherm Arctic though, even in the 200g flavour,

I might be able to squeeze one in then. It's not tight on me and there is a bit of space, i just didn't want to get a thick fluffy suit that's not going to fit. I think i need to get hold of a 400g suit and just test-dive it.

Fraser, thanks for the offer but if i can't get hold of one and it's not going to keep me warm then no real point. Cheers though, much appreciated.

What undersuits are there around that are 400g or similar that are still fairly slim. I have not done a whole lot of diving with drysuited folk and have not really seen the options available.

Jonathan · August 25th, 2006, 01:20 PM

i've got a Polarbears 400g if you'd like to try it sometime.

LauNar · August 25th, 2006, 01:32 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jb2cool)

What undersuits are there around that are 400g or similar that are still fairly slim. I have not done a whole lot of diving with drysuited folk and have not really seen the options available.

Are you absolutely sure you need a 400g suit? It's way too warm for most of my diving here in Finland, and you have a lot warmer water in Britain...

And the 400g suit is also a compromise: what you gain in warmth you lose in flexibility. A correctly cut 400g will allow you to do do shutdowns etc just as well as in less bulky suits, but that doesn't remove the fact that the 400g suits are bulky.

My +/- for 400g suits (PB, Viking, Santi, DUI):
+ very warm, even with little gas in the suit
+ works when somewhat wet (to a degree, no magic there even if GI said so...)

- expensive...
- requires exact fit - 400g won't stretch (unless paneled like Santi), and if cut too big is very baggy and bulky
- bulky even if correctly cut
- gets worn down pretty fast, might not last no more than ~100 dives - my strategy is to reserve the 400g for bigger dives and use (cheaper) layered approach on others
- difficult to wash, dry and store; takes very long to dry if flooded
- doesn't pack too small - a consideration too when you've already got loads of gear to fit in a car
- requires quite a bit of extra lead
- makes air move in the suit a bit slower (not really a problem, just a thing you need to be aware of)
- not very nice to wear on the surface

//LN

**jb2cool** · August 25th, 2006, 02:18 PM

LauNar, thanks for the feedback. I'm not entirely sure i need a 400g suit, no. It just seems to be the most popular weight of suit here in the UK. I'm just starting to dive dry (All my dives so far have been in a wetsuit) so am open to suggestions.

View Poll Results: What type of undersuit would you use under a membrand suit?
High loft like Santi, DUI or other Thinsulate 400g suit	10	66.67%
Low Loft like Xerotherm's	5	33.33%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

August 25th, 2006, 11:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 804	Undersuit, how tight can i run it? After trying on my new TLS350 and it seems to be a pretty good fit i'm having doubts that i'll fit a Santi undersuit or any other form of 'high loft' undersuit on underneath this suit. I think i might have to plump for Xerotherm Arctics as an undersuit as i just don't think anything else will fit without potentially restricting movement. My question is really, Has anyone got a traditional undersuit (Largeish size) that i could try underneath this suit to see if i can fit it in. Also views and oppinions on undersuits are welcomed. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com

August 25th, 2006, 11:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
NickB(Offline) Always lowering the tone Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 350	I wouldn't call thinsulate 'hi-loft'. It's more like thick felt and doesn't really loft at all. It is thicker than a Xerotherm Arctic though, even in the 200g flavour, but in all but summer conditions in the UK an Arctic on its own wouldn't be sufficient; unless you're very well covered in 'bioprene'. __________________ SnowHeads / BreastFriends / Free Money!

August 25th, 2006, 12:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
fraser(Offline) "I'm only late on your timescale" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 463	Jason, I have a 200g stretch thinsulate that you are welcome to try under your suit at some point... it is relatively low profile. However, I would also say that a) you can't get them here in the UK and b) you'll freeze your butt off in just the 200g suit during winter. Cheers, Fraser. __________________ Damn it feels good to be a gangsta

August 25th, 2006, 12:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 804	Quote: (Originally Posted by NickB) I wouldn't call thinsulate 'hi-loft'. It's more like thick felt and doesn't really loft at all. It is thicker than a Xerotherm Arctic though, even in the 200g flavour, I might be able to squeeze one in then. It's not tight on me and there is a bit of space, i just didn't want to get a thick fluffy suit that's not going to fit. I think i need to get hold of a 400g suit and just test-dive it. Fraser, thanks for the offer but if i can't get hold of one and it's not going to keep me warm then no real point. Cheers though, much appreciated. What undersuits are there around that are 400g or similar that are still fairly slim. I have not done a whole lot of diving with drysuited folk and have not really seen the options available. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com Last edited by jb2cool; August 25th, 2006 at 01:07 PM.

August 25th, 2006, 11:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lou(Offline) New Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bucks Posts: 195	Is your new suit MTM or off the shelf? I would say that if you can't fit a thinsulate under it then it probably isn't big enough for you. I wear Arctics all year, but add thermals under them in the winter, but then I do have bioprene as Nick so nicely puts it! It would also limit my time in the water in the winter, if my hands didn't already. I wouldn't be happy with more than an hour in 5 degrees.

August 25th, 2006, 11:58 AM	#4 (permalink)
Rob Dobson (Online) Chillin' with the ninjas Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 537	I need Xerotherms, Artics and PBB in moderately cold waters (say 7C) with a membrane. I am going to invest in a Santi 400g to get me through the winter...

August 25th, 2006, 12:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
neilh(Offline) Haemoglobin on the bus... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Barnsley, UK Posts: 1,900	Quote: (Originally Posted by Rob Dobson) I am going to invest in a Santi 400g to get me through the winter... I've been thinking about it - I still feel the cold with normal xerotherms and the RoHo thermocline undersuit. I'm just a wuss tho!

August 25th, 2006, 01:20 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jonathan(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 215	i've got a Polarbears 400g if you'd like to try it sometime.

August 25th, 2006, 01:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
LauNar(Offline) ... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 132	Quote: (Originally Posted by jb2cool) What undersuits are there around that are 400g or similar that are still fairly slim. I have not done a whole lot of diving with drysuited folk and have not really seen the options available. Are you absolutely sure you need a 400g suit? It's way too warm for most of my diving here in Finland, and you have a lot warmer water in Britain... And the 400g suit is also a compromise: what you gain in warmth you lose in flexibility. A correctly cut 400g will allow you to do do shutdowns etc just as well as in less bulky suits, but that doesn't remove the fact that the 400g suits are bulky. My +/- for 400g suits (PB, Viking, Santi, DUI): + very warm, even with little gas in the suit + works when somewhat wet (to a degree, no magic there even if GI said so...) - expensive... - requires exact fit - 400g won't stretch (unless paneled like Santi), and if cut too big is very baggy and bulky - bulky even if correctly cut - gets worn down pretty fast, might not last no more than ~100 dives - my strategy is to reserve the 400g for bigger dives and use (cheaper) layered approach on others - difficult to wash, dry and store; takes very long to dry if flooded - doesn't pack too small - a consideration too when you've already got loads of gear to fit in a car - requires quite a bit of extra lead - makes air move in the suit a bit slower (not really a problem, just a thing you need to be aware of) - not very nice to wear on the surface //LN

August 25th, 2006, 02:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 804	LauNar, thanks for the feedback. I'm not entirely sure i need a 400g suit, no. It just seems to be the most popular weight of suit here in the UK. I'm just starting to dive dry (All my dives so far have been in a wetsuit) so am open to suggestions. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com