MarkT(Offline)

First real post here so be gentle ...

I've read a large number of the posts on this site now along with a few others, also 'Dress for Success' and 'The fundamentals of better diving' so I know enough to avoid some of the basic misunderstandings but I also know enough to know that I don't know enough if you see what I mean

So I need a little advice on some changes to my kit so I can at least start heading in the right direction.

Currently I am PADI AOW with TDI Nitrox and about 20 dives logged.

Very early days I know but I want to transition to at least some of the kit that I'll eventually need if I progress into the DIR world.

Current kit :

Oceanic Delta 4 (primary) and Alpha8 (backup) with DX4 1st Stage
Oceanic Probe BCD
Scubapro split fins
SPG (no console)
Uwatec Dtimer
Compass on retractor
Suunto Vytec (2nd hand)
2 x 15l Faber

The easy changes :

Apeks DS4, TX50, TX40 and suitable hoses
Jet fins
Wrist mount for compass

Not worried about getting new regs as my youngest son can use the Oceanics while he works through OW. AOW etc.

The SPG without console and the Dtimer were 'lucky' purchases as I just don't like consoles and I liked the idea of a back-up to the computer.

The tricky change :

Back-plate and wing ...

I've done all the reading and I know what is out there but I'm at a loss to make the best choice from all the options.

Currently I'm using an Oceanic Semi-dry 5mm with 5mm shortie on top if needed. With that and my Probe I'm using 12Kg of weight in fresh water, 14Kg in the sea. I'm almost certainly a bit over weighted there but should I be looking at a heavier 6mm back-plate to begin with or should I go for a 3mm and just look to spread the additional weight around or is it just not possible to guess without trying different kit in the water?

I know you can't get one wing to cover both single tank and twins, but can you get one backplate to handle both types of wing? I would suspect so but I'm not 100% clear on that point.

Any specific suggestions would be welcome as I don't want to buy one set of kit and then change it shortly afterwards, done that once already

If this is all covered in a thread I've missed then point me in the right direction and I'll go read it.

TobinGeorge(Offline)

In cold water with single tanks you will likely need more ballast than a ~ 2.5 kg back plate will provide. Some people trim out fine with a weight belt. Others need more weight higher up on their torso. There is a few ways to achieve this; heavier plates, weighted STA, "P" weights, bolt on weight plates for the back plate.

You need to check your total weight requirements, and then spend some time determining where on your body or rig this total weight needs to be distributed to achieve horizontal trim.


In most cases the same plate and harness will work for both, that's one of the nice things about a BP&W. The exceptions would include a heavy plate that works for singles, but over weights the diver in doubles.


Regards,


Tobin

Divingniknaks(Offline)

Mark,

You're not too far away from us. Why not have a drive up and a chat ?

I can show you the options for Dirzone and Agir-Brokk.

The DZ plate will handle single and twins, the Agir won't without adding a single tank adaptor.

The DZ single wing has the STA built in as well ,which saves a few pennies again.

We'll can even work on a try dive at Stoney if you like, as we're only 40 mins drive from there.

If that helps, give us a call.

Cheers

__________________
Phill
-----------------------------
Salvo Lights, DirZone Gear , Frog Wings

Dive ? http://www.divingniknaks.com

tom(Offline)

To be honest, if you're diving in the UK for more than a couple of months a year, the first thing I'd be looking at is a drysuit. No point worrying about weight of backplates etc until you've got that sorted.

Rob Dobson(Offline)

Mark,

You're not very far away - happy to meet up and you can try out kit and see what you like the feel of.

All backplates are much of a muchness - wings, well you either go for a donut or you don't, either way I'd stick to a 40lb one for now.

Cylinders - shorter, heavier necked Fabers, longer and thinner Euro cylinders or heavier Heisers.

Primary lights - 10W or 18W if you can afford that bit extra. The great thing about DIR is you don't have that much choice to start with!

HTH,

- Cheers, Rob

neilh(Offline)

Hi Mark,
Welcome aboard!

That's a good starting point

You could twin those to get a twinset without having to buy new cylinders, but you might prefer 12s

Check out the ATX range as well - they're smaller than the TX ones.

To be honest I'd stick with the vytec - you can download your profile from it (if that's your thing), but you can also run it in gauge mode. The gauge mode is quite nice and displays seconds as well as minutes which I'm personally finding useful at the moment!

One backplate can indeed - I have two wings (single and twins) and two backplates (ali and steel) and I can switch around happily between them. For instance for fresh water I dive the ali plate with the twins, for salt it's the steel plate. However I also dive the ali plate with the single wing on holiday

As for what thickness of plate, that's a tough one. Regardless of your suit choice you need to work out how much you need to be correctly weighted. Once you know that you need to work out where you need the weight so that you're nicely balanced (not rotating head down or head up). Once you know where you need the weight you'll know what the best backplate is for you.

For instance I found I didn't need much weight at all with the twins in fresh water, but I was suffering from head-down syndrome. Buying a (lighter) ali backplate allowed me to add a tail weight to the twins which brought my overall weighting back to what I needed but also shifted the weight backwards and sorted out my trim.

It's probably going to be worthwhile hooking up with folk from here to try out various plates and wings and see if you can work out what you need that way!

MarkT(Offline)

Thanks for the great input guys.

Tobin: Thanks for confirming the situation on the back-plates and I'm sure you're right that I'll need to spend a lot of time trimming things with weight location once I've got something to trim

Phil: Yes, I'm not that far away at all so I do think it would be worth me dropping in for a chat to go over the options. If it is possible to sort something out at Stoney once I know what I really need then that would be great too.

Tom: You are right of course; I will need a dry-suit sometime soon. I've been diving semi-dry since March this year and the water temperature has been fine but the main issue is the surface intervals of course.

I didn't want to move to a dry-suit with my current kit as that would just lead me into more bad habits that I'd have to correct and the cost of the dry-suit would prevent me investing in the rest of the kit I need to start making the change.


Rob: Thanks for the kind offer. I know I'm going to need plenty of help as I progress so perhaps we can meet up some time. I'll pick Phil's brains before spending some cash with him so that should make getting the right kit a bit easier but I'll still need guidance on skills for sure

Neil: Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree that twin 15's is perhaps a step too far weight wise, but I do have 2x12l Fabers that would be suitable later on when I'm ready for twins.

I'll take another look at the ATX as it probably makes sense to have a slightly smaller reg as the secondary and aside from exhaust width I don't think there was a lot else between them.

Getting the right back-plate isn't going to be easy I can see, but once I've chatted things through with Phil I should be a bit closer to a descision I hope. Worst case I may well end up with more than one to suit different situations but fortunately they are not the most expensive part of the kit anyway.

Davey Willo(Offline)

Ey Up Mark

Apologies for not getting back to you via your PM on UKD, I was intending to write a long and detailed reply to your questions but just didn't have the time when I first read it.. And now I've let you loose amongst these reprebates, what have I done to you?!?!

Anyway, you can see what I was on about with the very friendly UK DIR community where everyone is willing to jump in and help, lots of offers so far and from only a first post..

You're in good hands, as far as kit is concerned spend some time with NikNak, he's a top fella and although he's after your soul he will actually look after you very well and offer you a good product with excellent advice and service.

Meet up and go diving with as many GUE trained divers as possible as there is no better way to get all of those questions answered, nor is there a better way to see what is expected underwater than to see it in action with some guys who have trained and mastered the required skills/drills, and who can demonstrate the unified team mentality.

Welcome to a whole new approach to diving mate, I'm sure that your comfort and confidence levels will increase massively as your training and equipment changes, I know mine did.

Catch you soon mate

Dave.

MarkT(Offline)

np Dave, I knew it was a big question so I thought it was easier to spread the workload and ask it over here

You and JB already did your bit on the UKD board pointing me at the right reading materials which have proved very helpful so far.

I'm sure I'll take people up on offers to meet at convenient places as I progress, but right now I'm obviously very sensitive to the fact that from a Team perspective I have 'Weakest Link' printed in very large letters on my back so I need to focus on training focused dives for quite some time before I try to join in on anything involving any other organised objectives.

As Dave already knows, I'm also working on improving my physical fitness to match the new techniques as well so I have multiple targets to focus on right now.

Thanks again for the great welcome everyone, looks like I'll be hanging around here for some time to come.

Joe Hesketh(Offline)

Mark

Given what you currently own and where you say you would like to end up, in terms of priorities I’d be looking to replace those Oceanic regs last rather than first. Just buy some new hoses for now and put the rest of the cash towards stiff bladed fins and a BP/wing. Then a drysuit and a few other bits and then maybe go back and think about the regs.

Joe