Tailored Drysuit - Zip Covers

*Brian Allen* · July 18th, 2006, 04:13 PM

I've just come back from a very successful fitting and restitching of my new drysuit. It's perfect almost... a bright Light blue Polar Bears - Explorer. Yes i know you can only get them in black, but i'm special

It's a made to measure suit, with tailored fittings to get it just right, and they were quite happy to take it in and restitch as much as i wanted... so 10 out of 10 for service today.

I have a question though. I can't remeber the DIR reason for a Zip Cover??? Putting one on mine would widen the zip (only very slightly) but this would put the exhaust valve lower down my arm - not keen, i like it high up and round the back a bit. DUI do theirs using an overlay, but this then means that the inlet valve has to be bonded into place as opposed to screwed in, and allegedly leads to an increased risk of leaking around the join once it's a few years old. Also i've been on boats twice when a person using a zipcover failed to notice their zip wasn't fully done up, entered the water then had to abort the dive.

Can anyone remind me why i need a zip cover... it seems unecessary to me. ???

wilbo · July 18th, 2006, 04:27 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A)

... but i'm special

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A)

..Also i've been on boats twice when a person using a zipcover failed to notice their zip wasn't fully done up, entered the water then had to abort the dive.

Can anyone remind me why i need a zip cover... it seems unecessary to me. ???

not had a problem with my protec (yep - the othree as been demoted to backup suit..

).. failing to do the inner zip up shows a lack of concentration when putting your kit together.. Doesn't it GLOC..

Its a simple check when the zip is done up it meets the stopper at the end.. the outer zip doesn't get done up until then..

GLOC · July 18th, 2006, 04:48 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A)

but i'm special

Was that special, or special needs?

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A)

Also i've been on boats twice when a person using a zipcover failed to notice their zip wasn't fully done up, entered the water then had to abort the dive.

Yep, I was one of those, but not on your boat Brian. There is no excuse for it, bare fingers can feel where the end of the zip is and you can tell if it isnt at the end.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A)

Can anyone remind me why i need a zip cover... it seems unecessary to me. ???

To make the zi plast longer maybe. I have no problems with the Protec zi pcover and it isnt stiched in like the DUI;s. I am sure Sterny posted some pictures on here a little while ago of his Protec including shots of the zip cover.

Regards

*JohnKendall* · July 18th, 2006, 05:17 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A)

Can anyone remind me why i need a zip cover... it seems unecessary to me. ???

Basically the idea is to avoid the zip being able to snag on anything and fail underwater.

What PB need to do is bring the zip higher up over the shoulder, which would prevent the issues that they have, My PB has that issue (and is one of several reasons that I don't use it anymore)

J

Woz · July 18th, 2006, 05:44 PM

And instead of bringing the zip down to the top of the thigh, bring it to the crotch. Then you can go for a wee really easily.

*Brian Allen* · July 18th, 2006, 05:58 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by JohnKendall)

Basically the idea is to avoid the zip being able to snag on anything and fail underwater.

What PB need to do is bring the zip higher up over the shoulder, which would prevent the issues that they have, My PB has that issue (and is one of several reasons that I don't use it anymore)

J

You had one of the first prototype PB suits. They've ironed out alot of those problems now, and are a little annoyed with themselves for starting to sell them before they were ready. I just like an extreme position for my dump valve. If there's other reasons could you PM me so I can sort em out on my suit.

So the Zip cover is to stop the Zip handle from snagging on anything? In which case the end result could be better achieved by using something else instead of using a massive cover. Or is the cover to prevent the Zip itself from snagging???

Bear in mind that my 30 centre drysuits here have probably done a combined total of nearly 100,000 dives and we've never had a zip snag or fail UW. Most of the other DIR reasons for kit choice i have personnally witnessed or heard about from another instructor.

Has anyone here seen a zip snag and fail?

*JohnKendall* · July 18th, 2006, 06:00 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A)

You had one of the first prototype PB suits. They've ironed out alot of those problems now, and are a little annoyed with themselves for starting to sell them before they were ready. I just like an extreme position for my dump valve. If there's other reasons could you PM me so I can sort em out on my suit.

So the Zip cover is to stop the Zip handle from snagging on anything? In which case the end result could be better achieved by using something else instead of using a massive cover. Or is the cover to prevent the Zip itself from snagging???

Bear in mind that my 30 centre drysuits here have probably done a combined total of nearly 100,000 dives and we've never had a zip snag or fail UW. Most of the other DIR reasons for kit choice i have personnally witnessed or heard about from another instructor.

Has anyone here seen a zip snag and fail?

Remember that this comes from Scootering through caves. You want to minimise the possibility of the catestrophic zip failure.

I'll send you a PM too.

J

Martin Burnard · July 18th, 2006, 10:21 PM

I must be special as well.... they are making mine in dark blue, it just appears less feminine!

Does everybody know he went down for his fitting and forgot to tell me I was supposed to go for mine at the same time?

And then they made my suit in all the right proportions, just for somebody 3 inches shorter!!! (no loose fabric though).

Thats why they have a fitting before final stitching.

Suits are looking good.

*Brian Allen* · July 19th, 2006, 06:45 PM

Thanks for the PM JK, that list of problems reads like their list of upgrades since their first prototypes... except the boots instead of running with neoprene they're using heavy duty latex to be wrapped up inside a seac sub boot.

So does anyone see a problem with the boots?

Have any of you hard core cavers seen or heard of a catastrophic zip failure that would not have happened if there was a zip cover.

B

July 18th, 2006, 04:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Brian Allen(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London & Plymouth Posts: 594	Tailored Drysuit - Zip Covers I've just come back from a very successful fitting and restitching of my new drysuit. It's perfect almost... a bright Light blue Polar Bears - Explorer. Yes i know you can only get them in black, but i'm special It's a made to measure suit, with tailored fittings to get it just right, and they were quite happy to take it in and restitch as much as i wanted... so 10 out of 10 for service today. I have a question though. I can't remeber the DIR reason for a Zip Cover??? Putting one on mine would widen the zip (only very slightly) but this would put the exhaust valve lower down my arm - not keen, i like it high up and round the back a bit. DUI do theirs using an overlay, but this then means that the inlet valve has to be bonded into place as opposed to screwed in, and allegedly leads to an increased risk of leaking around the join once it's a few years old. Also i've been on boats twice when a person using a zipcover failed to notice their zip wasn't fully done up, entered the water then had to abort the dive. Can anyone remind me why i need a zip cover... it seems unecessary to me. ??? __________________ ...dive planning again ... GUE fundamentals and Halcyon Equipment Online www.ocean-explorers.co.uk

July 18th, 2006, 04:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
wilbo (Online) Chimp 4 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Swindon, UK Posts: 878	Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A) ... but i'm special Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A) ..Also i've been on boats twice when a person using a zipcover failed to notice their zip wasn't fully done up, entered the water then had to abort the dive. Can anyone remind me why i need a zip cover... it seems unecessary to me. ??? not had a problem with my protec (yep - the othree as been demoted to backup suit.. ).. failing to do the inner zip up shows a lack of concentration when putting your kit together.. Doesn't it GLOC.. Its a simple check when the zip is done up it meets the stopper at the end.. the outer zip doesn't get done up until then.. __________________ Cheers! Wilbo DIR explorers: DIR Yorkshire Divers: YorkshireDivers One of the Foxturd chimps

July 18th, 2006, 04:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
GLOC (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 2,000	Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A) but i'm special Was that special, or special needs? Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A) Also i've been on boats twice when a person using a zipcover failed to notice their zip wasn't fully done up, entered the water then had to abort the dive. Yep, I was one of those, but not on your boat Brian. There is no excuse for it, bare fingers can feel where the end of the zip is and you can tell if it isnt at the end. Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A) Can anyone remind me why i need a zip cover... it seems unecessary to me. ??? To make the zi plast longer maybe. I have no problems with the Protec zi pcover and it isnt stiched in like the DUI;s. I am sure Sterny posted some pictures on here a little while ago of his Protec including shots of the zip cover. Regards __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

July 18th, 2006, 05:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,102	Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A) Can anyone remind me why i need a zip cover... it seems unecessary to me. ??? Basically the idea is to avoid the zip being able to snag on anything and fail underwater. What PB need to do is bring the zip higher up over the shoulder, which would prevent the issues that they have, My PB has that issue (and is one of several reasons that I don't use it anymore) J __________________ John Kendall http://www.guetraining.com/ GUE Instruction, Santi and Halcyon Equipment NEW - Online Santi Shop

July 18th, 2006, 05:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
Woz(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Nottingham Posts: 246	And instead of bringing the zip down to the top of the thigh, bring it to the crotch. Then you can go for a wee really easily. __________________ www.kitfondle.co.uk Lots of shiny diving tatt for you to spend money on

July 18th, 2006, 05:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
Brian Allen(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London & Plymouth Posts: 594	Quote: (Originally Posted by JohnKendall) Basically the idea is to avoid the zip being able to snag on anything and fail underwater. What PB need to do is bring the zip higher up over the shoulder, which would prevent the issues that they have, My PB has that issue (and is one of several reasons that I don't use it anymore) J You had one of the first prototype PB suits. They've ironed out alot of those problems now, and are a little annoyed with themselves for starting to sell them before they were ready. I just like an extreme position for my dump valve. If there's other reasons could you PM me so I can sort em out on my suit. So the Zip cover is to stop the Zip handle from snagging on anything? In which case the end result could be better achieved by using something else instead of using a massive cover. Or is the cover to prevent the Zip itself from snagging??? Bear in mind that my 30 centre drysuits here have probably done a combined total of nearly 100,000 dives and we've never had a zip snag or fail UW. Most of the other DIR reasons for kit choice i have personnally witnessed or heard about from another instructor. Has anyone here seen a zip snag and fail? __________________ ...dive planning again ... GUE fundamentals and Halcyon Equipment Online www.ocean-explorers.co.uk

July 18th, 2006, 06:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,102	Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A) You had one of the first prototype PB suits. They've ironed out alot of those problems now, and are a little annoyed with themselves for starting to sell them before they were ready. I just like an extreme position for my dump valve. If there's other reasons could you PM me so I can sort em out on my suit. So the Zip cover is to stop the Zip handle from snagging on anything? In which case the end result could be better achieved by using something else instead of using a massive cover. Or is the cover to prevent the Zip itself from snagging??? Bear in mind that my 30 centre drysuits here have probably done a combined total of nearly 100,000 dives and we've never had a zip snag or fail UW. Most of the other DIR reasons for kit choice i have personnally witnessed or heard about from another instructor. Has anyone here seen a zip snag and fail? Remember that this comes from Scootering through caves. You want to minimise the possibility of the catestrophic zip failure. I'll send you a PM too. J __________________ John Kendall http://www.guetraining.com/ GUE Instruction, Santi and Halcyon Equipment NEW - Online Santi Shop

July 18th, 2006, 10:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
Martin Burnard(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth, UK Posts: 580	I must be special as well.... they are making mine in dark blue, it just appears less feminine! Does everybody know he went down for his fitting and forgot to tell me I was supposed to go for mine at the same time? And then they made my suit in all the right proportions, just for somebody 3 inches shorter!!! (no loose fabric though). Thats why they have a fitting before final stitching. Suits are looking good. __________________ I once enjoyed a sado-masachistic frenzy of total tintintabulation leading to a state of metampsychosis... or did I make that up? www.bananafrogcars.co.uk

July 19th, 2006, 06:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
Brian Allen(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London & Plymouth Posts: 594	Thanks for the PM JK, that list of problems reads like their list of upgrades since their first prototypes... except the boots instead of running with neoprene they're using heavy duty latex to be wrapped up inside a seac sub boot. So does anyone see a problem with the boots? Have any of you hard core cavers seen or heard of a catastrophic zip failure that would not have happened if there was a zip cover. B __________________ ...dive planning again ... GUE fundamentals and Halcyon Equipment Online www.ocean-explorers.co.uk