Data(Offline)

I just was asked this question by a friends son and I also see many posts on the net that include a similar question.
many answers start with:
the right mind set, the right gear, a healthy body, access to dive sites and buddies, the right training and the list goes on and on and on.
One thing, and the simple answer I gave to my friends son, is mostly overlooked.
MONEY and lots of it.
If one has to think about buying equipment that's just about borderline for tech diving or not even suited for it instead the one proven to work perfect for tech diving, just to save a buck, one should not think about going into tech diving.
There sure enough is nothing wrong with saving a buck by buying something that is perfectly suited for the task from a less expensive manufacturer/supplier than another.
There is a reason that the majority of tech divers are in their 30s and 40s and older, because they are more financially stable than a teenager (yes there are exceptions to the rules).

here is what I told my friends son:
if you can spend $5000 + to buy your basic equipment, go out and spend 2-3 times the amount on a regular dive trip then what you spend on your recreational trips and do this on a regular at least once per month basis and to top it all of, spend an additional $1000 + for continuous dive education and/or that special dive trip per year, you should not think about tech diving.
people who have to stress the limit of Mrs. Visa or Mr. MasterCard just to buy their first equipment and keep on doing that until they bought everything needed over the next few years, will sooner or later make a mistake like diving with the less He mix or use the wrong charter just to save a buck.
now go, finish collage and get a job that supports your future hobby.

PfcAJ(Offline)

If he can be the exception the the "rule", then go do it!

I got into this at a young age (NAUI Cave 1 at 19), and I can do it because I don't have a demanding schedual. I work 4 days a week (50ish hour weeks) in my civillian job, and I don't have many bills, honestly. I buy all my own equipment (top of the line), training and trips.

If he needs to get into it over a longer period, thats cool. Dive often, take new classes like Cavern, the ever forgotten about TriOx, then move on to more advanced curriculums.

Learn, dive, dive, dive, learn, refine, etc.

Hassan Adly (Online)

Hello,

With respect, I totally disagree with this line of thinking. By giving people this sort of anti-advice you are doing them a disservice by turning them away from their stated goals. It's not only bogus, it also focuses on money while pulling attention away from the much more important commitments required for tech diving.

Far and away the biggest investment that must be made in order to reach the level of proficiency required for exploration level diving is not the money - it's the time and attitude commitment that must be made to patiently learn and practice, gradually pushing the envelope of underwater exploration. This is a process that takes years even for active divers.

Unless we are talking about really big-ticket items like scooters, a "tech diver" doesn't need to spend significantly more on equipment than a regular recreational diver. If we can afford this stuff in Egypt then you can't convince me that this is beyond the reach of your average young westerner in their late teens or early tweens. If someone is still at the stage of going through training courses, and he/she is short a stage reg or something, it's usually possible to rent or borrow whatever is needed.

If you really intended to give pertinent advice to your friend's son, you should have explained that if he wants to get into tech diving, he must first become a very proficient and knowledgable diver. How much moolah does he have to plunk down to read all the great books and manuals available? How much does it cost to read and post to this wonderful forum we have here at DIRX?

In my experience, the greatest tool I have found in developing my diving practices has been knowledge. In money terms at least, that was the LEAST expensive thing to gain.

My advice to would-be tech divers is to start by developing your skills and knowledge to the best of your ability. Setting yourself up with some basic DIR gear, doing a DIRF course, and studying some good manuals will, believe it or not, put you at a level far above many so-called "tech divers" around today, without spending more than you would to become say, a PADI advanced diver with a couple of specialties. As you gain experience practicing your skills and applying your knowledge you can gradually, according to your financial abilities, invest in new gear as it becomes necessary.

When I look at the long list of continuing education courses available from agencies like PADI, and the large amounts of money people of all ages spend on them, I would go so far as to say that DIR dive education like the GUE course path costs LESS on the whole than other systems - especially when you consider that by the Tech 1 level, GUE-trained divers are already doing staged decompression trimix dives.

So my advice to you would be to get back to your friend and his son and give them some useful pointers on how to improve his skills and knowledge, so that when the time comes to make the decisions that require real money, he can make them while properly informed, his decisions based on his needs, rather than what he "should" buy or do.

__________________
Hassan Adly

Red Sea Discovery

"Today I will finally see the sea again, which will smell of salt, wind, sand - and the cold of winter. Finally I will not only travel on it but dive in it, again I will become water, a bird - and I will remember the feeling of gliding above the abyss"
Elena Sundukova, tragically lost at sea, January 2007

Data(Offline)

Hi Hassan,
I guess it's kind of hard to put into a short post what was talked about in a 2 hour conversation.
yes I did explain all the "other requirements" that I believe one should fulfill to take the tech route.
his specific problem is money, he needs to get a deal on a cheap charter to go out on a boat and mostly dives with his friends from shore, he dives air because he wants to save the extra $5.00 that a nitrox fill would cost him and yes, I told him where he can get nitrox for the same money as air, but that would cost him an extra $99.00 to get certified in which he said he will start to save for now.
the list goes on and on and I just told him what I believe was the truth concerning him about becoming a tech diver now.

about some others; I still think money is a huge factor for many people.
the majority of people that I know off are whining when the gas goes up 10 cents per gallon, the cell phone went over the free minutes or when the grocery bill was a little higher than last month.
heck, many can't even afford a health insurance.
this is one of the reasons why you'll find people still diving deep air to 200fsw, what reason would they have, other then saving on the trimix fill.
after you bought all the equipment and got all the lessons to become a tech diver, you still need to be committed to spend a much larger amount to go diving than you have spend before.
the difference over here where I live looks something like this:

a recreational open water dive on a sunday afternoon = $10.00 for 2 tank fills, $40.00 for the boat ride and $5.00 to $8.00 for the DM.
that is a total of $55.00 to $58.00 for a nice sunday afternoon.

on a tech trip you pay $75.00 for the trip (cheapest I know of), $50.00 for 21/35 of your doubles, $20 - $50.00 for stages and deco bottles filled (only if you own all those tanks and don't have to rent them).
not to forget the $10.00 to the DM.
so a single dive on a sunday afternoon starts at $155.00 to $185.00 or about $250.00 for two dives.
to pay about $30.00 per dive or $125.00 per dive might not be a big deal to you and I, but I know a lot of people where that is a huge difference.
I'm also sure that many wannabe tech divers are not aware of these numbers, and these numbers are only so low, because I live somewhere close to all kind of diving, from OW to tech 3 to cave 3, all can be easily reached within a short drive, now imagine one needs to travel for tech diving and rent hotel rooms etc. or wants to dive the andrea doria

and imagine you do book that trip to the AD and paid those $10.000 for air fair and everything else, just to arrive at the dive site and realize that the conditions are so bad that you can't dive and go back home.
what the heck, there will always be a next time.

Hassan Adly (Online)

Hello Data,

That sounds very reasonable, and perhaps in the case of your stingy buddies it was necessary to point out the extra cost involved.

In any case I would make sure to introduce them to all the inxpensive and free resources around, such as books, manuals, and forums. That way they can decide if they want to start that path at all and if so, how far to go.

I still don't think that tech diving is really all that expensive, there are quite a few sports that are equally if not more expensive. That said, I did buy a couple of scooters recently, which has my mr VISA and mr mastercard quite bloated.

I am slightly suprised by the costs you mentioned for cylinders, gas, charters, etc. That makes it more expensive to tech dive in the US than here in Egypt! Even the gas works out to be cheaper at my place.

__________________
Hassan Adly

Red Sea Discovery

"Today I will finally see the sea again, which will smell of salt, wind, sand - and the cold of winter. Finally I will not only travel on it but dive in it, again I will become water, a bird - and I will remember the feeling of gliding above the abyss"
Elena Sundukova, tragically lost at sea, January 2007

Bubble(Offline)

Good discussion guys. Like Data's friends son I am also interested in making the transition into the tech realm.

As Hassan has said knowledge and practice is paramount. I have considered the cost a secondary factor as there is always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat (for example I work at my LDS parttime in return for cheaper gear and free diving/training).

I think if someone plans their intended diving life correctly and by taking the time to chat with people like yourselves they will ultimately save plenty of cash over time. I only wish that I had had more of a guiding hand earlier on in my diving.

Cheers!

__________________
Scuba-Zone London

maccajim(Offline)

If your are motivated and want to do it it doesn't matter how much coin you have JJ was a poor instructor at Ginnie and now one of the premier "tech" divers in the world

Anders Knudsen(Offline)

It is possible to be a tech diver even if you are young.
The equipment is expensive but – well it is possible to find the money.
Personally I just passed my full trimix ( had to say it ) and I am only 17( 18 in 11 days )
If you wont to dive Tech in this age, it is a question of priority, I do not use 200USD Saturday night partying with my friends – instead I pay for my equipment or a trimix fill.

The biggest problem is that if you are in my age or younger to go with GUE classes is not an option – I had to do IANTD adv rec Trimix because you only have to be 16 GUE tech 1 = 18
Now I did IANTD Trimix diver – if I wont the experience deep wreck diving is, I could not afford to do both Tech 1 & 2.

Tech Diving is possible in the late teens but GUE training is unfortunately not an option.

Best regards

__________________
If someone standing on dry land tells you they're safe diving deep on air, give them a wide berth. If they're that stupid at 1 ATA, you know they won't get any smarter at depth

Mark Chase(Offline)

I have to say I read the title and my first thaught before even opening the thread was Money and lots of it.

My gas bill for my last OC seasion was over £2,000, boat fees accomadation and transport probably another £80 -100 per dive so ireckon on about £5000 a year for a seasion of trimix dives in the 50 to 100m range over 30odd dives

My diving equipmnet is insured for £25,000 which just about covers it.


And I don't own a scooter yet :D

ATB

Mark Chase

__________________
The only DIR Inspiration diver in the village

FGYT(Offline)

UK tech dive portland area:

18/45 24 ltrs = £43 ( english not egyptian )
50% alu 80 = £9
100% 7ltr = £12

Dive sites range in price in the tech depth range £35 to £50

Budgeting £150 a dive isnt unrealistic


also servicing needs to be considered £50 a set for regs and for twins and 2 stages thats 4 sets plus 4 nitrox cleans per year at £15-£25 each
so £300 per year just on that.
plus in UK an inspection/test every 2.5 years at £15-£25
Yes you can do it your self if you know and you can buy clean stickers to put on etc.

so if your worried about a few quid for a nitrox fill Tech isnt really a viable road
this is just running costs not the out lay for kit and Training as well

BUT you dont need to Tech to DIR

ATB

Duncan