gansell(Offline)

I am looking to do DIR-F sometime soon, but now there is the choice of the recreational version or the technical version I am in a quandry over which to choose.

I currently dive a single 12L, which for my dives of about 30m max and 20mins (i.e) whithin the NDL, allow me a good dive within my Rock Bottom gas planning.

Now, the cheap version would be for me to get a H valve put into this bottle, and buy a couple of regs, which I could do for only slight pain to mr VISA.

However, I am IANTD Tech Nitrox trained, and may want to go deeper and do accelerated deco in future (and go the tech 1 route), which would mean a twinset, bigger wings and regs (oh and a lovely HID light as well), causing much more pain to mr VISA.

Currently I think that the level and amount of diving I am doing at the moment don't justify both the extra complexity of a twinset and the cost. But should I gho that way and future proof, just in case?

what do you think?

vid(Offline)

if your current diving doesn't necessitate twins, then no don't bother - but are you looking to change your diving in the short to medium term?


if you're going to add an extra valve and an extra reg to a single cylinder anyway, then there isn't that much added complexity using a twinset - so yes, make the switch


ultimately, the available cash will probably dictate which way you go

remember if you definitely want to go twins at some point, this is just a question of when you spend the money, not if! doing both the rec and then the tech route will ultimately add more cost just over a longer period

hth

vid

Rich Walker(Offline)

OK, I'm not sure if you understand this, as it isn't clear from your post. There are not separate rec and tech fundamentals courses - just different grades we can award to a student.

However, to take a Tech level pass, you must dive in doubles, with a primary light and backup lights. And demonstrate proficiency, of course

I don't see how your H-valve idea will help you with that. It's not a requirement for DIRF to have one, and it won't allow a Tech pass, so I'd say that was a dead end.

I appreciate that the full equipment upgrade required for the Tech level is a big lump of money, so perhaps taking the class in a single, and then coming back for an upgrade when you've accumulated the equipment might be an option.

Rich

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vid(Offline)

Rich
just as a matter of interest -

what's involved in the upgrade? is it a run through of purely the skills which have changed because of the twins configuration or is there a requirement to revisit some of the other skills too? how long is an upgrade compared to the rec grade

vid

gansell(Offline)

Oh, I thought that their was a new course for fundies in a twinset, that was a longer course or someting. Getting my wires crossed I think.

Hmm proficiency! To be honest my reason for taking the course is too learn, so I'm not expecting a straight pass. I'm the type to do the course to learn the stuff and get a provisional, practise it and then (hopefully) get a full pass. IMHO If I could learn and practice it all before the course enough to get a straight pass, there wouldn't be much piont in doing the course.

OK fair enough.

In for a penny in for a pount, that's what I say. Besides Mr VISA is looking too healthy at the moment

Rich Walker(Offline)

Well, yes and no.

Its a longer course. The difference is that we can award two different levels of pass. A recreational, and a technical.

This is exactly the way I see it. Comer on the course, learn some skills and ideas. Go back and practice with your new knowledge.

Rich

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Ziggi(Offline)

Rich,

Maybe also a nice question:
To get the "Tech" DIR F, how big do the doubles need to be? Is a D7 enough, with the back up lights and primary canister light, or do you have to have a D12?

Jonathan(Offline)

I'd say, for the sort of diving you're doing, a single would give you most flexibility, unless you plan to do tech1 soon. For example in twins shore diving isn't possible and diving from a RHIB isn't worth the hassle for a dive you could just as easily/safely do on a single. Plus it would be a bummer to have to go back to a BCD after a wing to dive these dives (believe me!).

Again unless you're planning to do Tech1 soon I also believe in taking the fundies course asap and not adding the complexity of twins, lights etc, or practicing beforehand - but's that mainly 'cos I did it that way. To improve as a rec diver it seems much more logical to me to get taught by an instructor and go away and practice - with an understanding of what and why you're practicing it. Then add more stuff like lights, etc. Plus it gives you time to take in the swathe of stuff taught in the lectures - tbh I'd have felt a bit of a fraud if I'd have passed fundies outright, there was just too much to take in!

I'm in no rush to do tech1, but love the way GUE training has made me a pretty solid recreational diver.

With the new style course, I'm sure Rich will advise, but I was under the impression that converting rec pass to a tec pass would involve some kind of re-eval rather than a course re-sit, if you wanted to move to twins and/or tech1 at a later date.

Hope this helps

Jonathan

[Edit: just noticed Rich has pretty much written in 2 lines what it took me 3 paragraphs. Oh well.]

neilh(Offline)

I'll confuse things further for you
Are you thinking of (or do you already) use a pony as well as your single?

I started looking at a pony for redundancy for my single, then decided that a twinset was a bit like having a really big pony with one less set of regs

True there are some more skills to learn and you'll need a bigger wing, but for me it made more sense to make that move. In fact skills-wise, you could leave the manifold open and treat it like a big single initially I guess...

Of course for a fundies tec pass you'll still need a torch... but then I see Sykesy is selling one at the moment

keylimepie(Offline)

FWIW, I was in the same position not too long ago. I'm doing Fundies in Oct, but started to think about it seriously about March time this year. At the time I was diving a stab with a single 12. I'd had a few dives using a hog rig, (sometimes with doubles, sometimes on a single), thanks to people like Andy and Davey on here.

I'm also in a BSAC club which complicated the decision, because they do a lot of shore diving and rib diving. Taking a set of twins on the rib is not an option really, and they are not ideal for shore dives.

However, I decided to go for twins, for two reasons: 1) I had done some dives in the 30m range. I was fine on the dives but, psychologically, felt uncomfortable about lack of redundancy at those depths. Enter the pony debate, but GUE won that one. 2) I was pretty confident in my own mind (when I wasn't out of it ) that I wanted to progress to doing more dives in that depth range and knew I needed to adopt a set-up that would be future proof.

In many ways, it has been a backward step for me. Not in a negative sense, but in that since getting the twins I have done nothing like the depths I previously did in my stab/single tank. That has been a deliberate decision on my part, as I wanted to gain experience in the twins and get comfortable before extending my depths.

The downside was that after assembling my kit into twins, I had no single tanks for the shore or rib dives, which I still do. Until recently, that has meant borrowing tanks and returning to the stab jacket. I now have a single wing from Rich's mobile shop, which I have begun to use for shore and rib dives. Yes, it's been expensive but worth it to me.

Not sure if this helps, but from reading between the lines of your posts I guess you know you want to get to twinset diving at some stage. You might want to flex that card now, before the BoE put the interest rates up later in the year

HTH

Dave

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