Necklace knots/pics

prharris · July 5th, 2006, 10:47 PM

Has anyone got any pictures or can describe the knots for a neclace in the secondary?

I know it's a "fisherman's knot", but is it a 'normal' single overhand knot on each side or a double?

tia
Paul

GoDiva · July 5th, 2006, 11:14 PM

http://www.donnerskipatrol.org/doublefisherman.jpg

**jb2cool** · July 5th, 2006, 11:36 PM

hmmm, i just put a knot either end on my bungee and then zip-tie it on where the zip-tie for the mouthpiece goes.

Is that a bad thing? seemed to be the simplest and most straight-forward way of doing it.

prharris · July 5th, 2006, 11:52 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jb2cool)

hmmm, i just put a knot either end on my bungee and then zip-tie it on where the zip-tie for the mouthpiece goes.

Is that a bad thing? seemed to be the simplest and most straight-forward way of doing it.

Well that's how it used to be done, but when I saw AK a couple of months ago I had a bit of a catch up.
It's been changed because I think there were a couple of occassions where *a good yank* had pulled the necklace and mouthpiece away from the reg, so it's been changed so that a good yank will pull the reg away from the diver, but at least leave the mouthpiece on for when it's recovered.

Now, can anyone tell me what is tied with cave line and what can be cable tied. It used to be that the clip on the Main and the clip on the contents gauge could be cable tied with a tank o-ring as a breakaway as they were 'could lose' i.e. the are both attached elsewhere, whereas the clip on a backup was a "can't lose", so was cave line tied.

As I understand it, backup lights are still ties but the breakaways are not used anymore.

r
Paul

Edit: It was late, I may not have been in PC mode, I of course meant, "A strong pull"

Joe Hesketh · July 6th, 2006, 03:12 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by prharris)

Now, can anyone tell me what is tied with cave line and what can be cable tied. It used to be that the clip on the Main and the clip on the contents gauge could be cable tied with a tank o-ring as a breakaway as they were 'could lose' i.e. the are both attached elsewhere, whereas the clip on a backup was a "can't lose", so was cave line tied.

As I understand it, backup lights are still ties but the breakaways are not used anymore.

Everything is now tied on with cave line including the long hose and the SPG and there are no breakaways. The gauge is unlikely to be needed to be yanked free in a hurry and the long hose breakaway was a hangover from use with a PASCR (and no longer even used there I believe). In OC terms, it’s only clipped off if the reg is not working (including a drill) or you’re breathing another bottle, in which case you’d donate that bottle’s reg first.

Joe

prharris · July 6th, 2006, 04:30 PM

Thanks Joe, I'll get tying

r
Paul

limeyx · July 6th, 2006, 06:35 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Joe Hesketh)

...
In OC terms, it’s only clipped off if the reg is not working (including a drill) or you’re breathing another bottle, in which case you’d donate that bottle’s reg first.

Joe

Not so during a valve drill right?

Right post off, go to backup, clip off. Right post on.
THen while you mess with the isolator etc. the right post will be on but clipped off.

Joe Hesketh · July 6th, 2006, 07:37 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by limeyx)

Not so during a valve drill right?

Right post off, go to backup, clip off. Right post on.
THen while you mess with the isolator etc. the right post will be on but clipped off.

You're right of course, if you HAD to donate at this point in the drill, it would be clipped off and functional. However, in the same way that during a training dive following a simulated right post failure you assume it to be off and/or not working (even though the valve is actually on and working and available if you HAD to use it) I'd view the long hose as effectively out of action during the whole sequence of a valve drill.

Am I making any sense?

limeyx · July 6th, 2006, 09:40 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Joe Hesketh)

...
Am I making any sense?

Yes. WHich is why you have a buddy looking over you like a hawk when doing it.

prharris · July 7th, 2006, 01:06 AM

Ok, so why not rig with a breakaway?
Is the ability to stow vs. the fact that the clip may have fallen off more important than the ability to donate at any time?

July 5th, 2006, 10:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
prharris(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth Posts: 91	Necklace knots/pics Has anyone got any pictures or can describe the knots for a neclace in the secondary? I know it's a "fisherman's knot", but is it a 'normal' single overhand knot on each side or a double? tia Paul

July 5th, 2006, 11:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
GoDiva(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 540	http://www.donnerskipatrol.org/doublefisherman.jpg __________________ "Miss Dodgy-Pockets" or "Miss Lime-Green, Clear-Skirt Mask"

July 5th, 2006, 11:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 796	hmmm, i just put a knot either end on my bungee and then zip-tie it on where the zip-tie for the mouthpiece goes. Is that a bad thing? seemed to be the simplest and most straight-forward way of doing it. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com

July 5th, 2006, 11:52 PM	#4 (permalink)
prharris(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth Posts: 91	Quote: (Originally Posted by jb2cool) hmmm, i just put a knot either end on my bungee and then zip-tie it on where the zip-tie for the mouthpiece goes. Is that a bad thing? seemed to be the simplest and most straight-forward way of doing it. Well that's how it used to be done, but when I saw AK a couple of months ago I had a bit of a catch up. It's been changed because I think there were a couple of occassions where a good yank had pulled the necklace and mouthpiece away from the reg, so it's been changed so that a good yank will pull the reg away from the diver, but at least leave the mouthpiece on for when it's recovered. Now, can anyone tell me what is tied with cave line and what can be cable tied. It used to be that the clip on the Main and the clip on the contents gauge could be cable tied with a tank o-ring as a breakaway as they were 'could lose' i.e. the are both attached elsewhere, whereas the clip on a backup was a "can't lose", so was cave line tied. As I understand it, backup lights are still ties but the breakaways are not used anymore. r Paul Edit: It was late, I may not have been in PC mode, I of course meant, "A strong pull" Last edited by prharris; July 6th, 2006 at 10:32 AM.

July 6th, 2006, 03:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
Joe Hesketh(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 657	Quote: (Originally Posted by prharris) Now, can anyone tell me what is tied with cave line and what can be cable tied. It used to be that the clip on the Main and the clip on the contents gauge could be cable tied with a tank o-ring as a breakaway as they were 'could lose' i.e. the are both attached elsewhere, whereas the clip on a backup was a "can't lose", so was cave line tied. As I understand it, backup lights are still ties but the breakaways are not used anymore. Everything is now tied on with cave line including the long hose and the SPG and there are no breakaways. The gauge is unlikely to be needed to be yanked free in a hurry and the long hose breakaway was a hangover from use with a PASCR (and no longer even used there I believe). In OC terms, it’s only clipped off if the reg is not working (including a drill) or you’re breathing another bottle, in which case you’d donate that bottle’s reg first. Joe

July 6th, 2006, 04:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
prharris(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth Posts: 91	Thanks Joe, I'll get tying r Paul

July 6th, 2006, 06:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
limeyx (Online) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 707	Quote: (Originally Posted by Joe Hesketh) ... In OC terms, it’s only clipped off if the reg is not working (including a drill) or you’re breathing another bottle, in which case you’d donate that bottle’s reg first. Joe Not so during a valve drill right? Right post off, go to backup, clip off. Right post on. THen while you mess with the isolator etc. the right post will be on but clipped off.

July 6th, 2006, 07:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
Joe Hesketh(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 657	Quote: (Originally Posted by limeyx) Not so during a valve drill right? Right post off, go to backup, clip off. Right post on. THen while you mess with the isolator etc. the right post will be on but clipped off. You're right of course, if you HAD to donate at this point in the drill, it would be clipped off and functional. However, in the same way that during a training dive following a simulated right post failure you assume it to be off and/or not working (even though the valve is actually on and working and available if you HAD to use it) I'd view the long hose as effectively out of action during the whole sequence of a valve drill. Am I making any sense?

July 6th, 2006, 09:40 PM	#9 (permalink)
limeyx (Online) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 707	Quote: (Originally Posted by Joe Hesketh) ... Am I making any sense? Yes. WHich is why you have a buddy looking over you like a hawk when doing it.

July 7th, 2006, 01:06 AM	#10 (permalink)
prharris(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Plymouth Posts: 91	Ok, so why not rig with a breakaway? Is the ability to stow vs. the fact that the clip may have fallen off more important than the ability to donate at any time?