Open Water Rig

Falco · June 30th, 2006, 09:20 PM

I`m not DIR, but some of the kit configurations make a lot of sense and are highly usable. I`m particularly fond of the less is better approach.

On the WKPP web site, under equipment images, there are a couple of photos of what is labelled `Open Water Rig`. It`s extremely simple and is exactly how I would configure a wing/backplate unit. It even has an `A` clamp (not so sure I`d want to use that).

Is this arrangement still acceptable, since the photo dates from 2002 ?

Without causing too much of a storm, are a lot of DIR divers, diving mainly in open water, configuring their rigs as they would if they were cave diving, or has the open water rig been made obselete (although I`d still use it)

*JohnKendall* · June 30th, 2006, 10:03 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Falco)

I`m not DIR, but some of the kit configurations make a lot of sense and are highly usable. I`m particularly fond of the less is better approach.

On the WKPP web site, under equipment images, there are a couple of photos of what is labelled `Open Water Rig`. It`s extremely simple and is exactly how I would configure a wing/backplate unit. It even has an `A` clamp (not so sure I`d want to use that).

Is this arrangement still acceptable, since the photo dates from 2002 ?

Without causing too much of a storm, are a lot of DIR divers, diving mainly in open water, configuring their rigs as they would if they were cave diving, or has the open water rig been made obselete (although I`d still use it)

I'm not sure what differences there would be on an Open Water Rig, compared to a Cave Rig. That's kind of the point of DIR, it's all the same. You have the same config regardless of the dive, you just change the size/number of the gas sources.

Post a link to the photo you mean, and it might help us answer you better.

HTH
J

**jb2cool** · June 30th, 2006, 10:15 PM

The only different things i can really think of that might appear different would be a 5' long primary hose (Rather than the 7' one), a single cylinder (Depending on how this site simplified it) and lack of lights.

I only dive a single but still use a 7' hose and have my backup lights (Still saving for a primary one) as i see all of these to have a valuable function.

The only thing that i can see that would be different without any argument is that an 'open water' rig can have a single cylinder where as a 'cave' rig must have twins.

dlegros · June 30th, 2006, 11:53 PM

I think he means this one

From http://www.wkpp.org/images/pina_equip/OW_rig2_r.jpeg

Dom

***EBT*** · June 30th, 2006, 11:54 PM

bear in mind Im not DIR... but...

OW rig has a 5' hose, single tank, single backup light.

Falco · July 1st, 2006, 12:30 AM

The main difference appears to be a single cylinder, but more importantly the position of the second, second stage, back-up or whatever you want to call it.

Am I right in saying, on a cave rig, both second stages are wrapped around the neck ? The one you would donate in your mouth, and the back up on a lanyard around your neck ?

On the `Open water rig` it appears the `back up` is located in the same position as advocated by most of the other training organisations.

In closing, I`ve got to say, I`m a little surprised that this configuration of rig, since it does appear on the WKPP website isn`t that well known. More importantly, is it still a part of DIR doctrine ?

*JohnKendall* · July 1st, 2006, 12:34 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Falco)

The main difference appear to be a single cylinder, but more importantly the position of the second, second stage, back-up or whatever you want to call it.

Am I right in saying, on a cave rig, both second stages are wrapped around the neck ? The one you would donate in your mouth, and the back up on a lanyard around your neck ?

On the `Open water rig` it appears the `back up` is located in the same position as advocated by most of the other training organisations.

In closing, I`ve got to say, I`m a little surprised that this configuration of rig, since it does appear on the WKPP website isn`t that well known. More importantly, is it still a part of DIR doctrine ?

You are mistaken about the regs. The backup is still in a necklace around your neck, and the long hose is still hog looped (i.e under the right arm, around the back of your neck (from left to right) then into your mouth)

Some people use a 5' hose rather than the 7' hose, but that is losing it's favour these days.

Single tank/twin tanks is all down to the depth of the dive/complexity of the dive.

HTH
J

GoDiva · July 1st, 2006, 12:49 AM

I dive a single set up.
My reg has a din first stage. I do have a 7 foot hose though, and a cannister light. The 5 foot is fine if you do not need a primary light (in the waters I dive in mostly this is necessary though). 7 foot is a bit long if you have nowhere to hook it behind (When I dived without cannister light I would route it round eg. a block of led).

**jb2cool** · July 1st, 2006, 12:52 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by JohnKendall)

Single tank/twin tanks is all down to the depth of the dive/complexity of the dive.

Agreed for OW use but you cannot do a cave dive with a single as far as my understanding goes.

*JohnKendall* · July 1st, 2006, 01:08 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by jb2cool)

Agreed for OW use but you cannot do a cave dive with a single as far as my understanding goes.

Correct, but that is due to the increased complexity of a cave dive. OW/Deep wreck/ Cave dive It's all the same really, as you get more complicated you gain more procedures, but at a base level it's all the same. That's the whole point of the system.

HTH
J

June 30th, 2006, 09:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
Falco(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bristol England Posts: 9	Open Water Rig I`m not DIR, but some of the kit configurations make a lot of sense and are highly usable. I`m particularly fond of the less is better approach. On the WKPP web site, under equipment images, there are a couple of photos of what is labelled `Open Water Rig`. It`s extremely simple and is exactly how I would configure a wing/backplate unit. It even has an `A` clamp (not so sure I`d want to use that). Is this arrangement still acceptable, since the photo dates from 2002 ? Without causing too much of a storm, are a lot of DIR divers, diving mainly in open water, configuring their rigs as they would if they were cave diving, or has the open water rig been made obselete (although I`d still use it)

June 30th, 2006, 10:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,097	Quote: (Originally Posted by Falco) I`m not DIR, but some of the kit configurations make a lot of sense and are highly usable. I`m particularly fond of the less is better approach. On the WKPP web site, under equipment images, there are a couple of photos of what is labelled `Open Water Rig`. It`s extremely simple and is exactly how I would configure a wing/backplate unit. It even has an `A` clamp (not so sure I`d want to use that). Is this arrangement still acceptable, since the photo dates from 2002 ? Without causing too much of a storm, are a lot of DIR divers, diving mainly in open water, configuring their rigs as they would if they were cave diving, or has the open water rig been made obselete (although I`d still use it) I'm not sure what differences there would be on an Open Water Rig, compared to a Cave Rig. That's kind of the point of DIR, it's all the same. You have the same config regardless of the dive, you just change the size/number of the gas sources. Post a link to the photo you mean, and it might help us answer you better. HTH J __________________ John Kendall http://www.guetraining.com/ GUE Instruction, Santi and Halcyon Equipment NEW - Online Santi Shop

June 30th, 2006, 10:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 796	The only different things i can really think of that might appear different would be a 5' long primary hose (Rather than the 7' one), a single cylinder (Depending on how this site simplified it) and lack of lights. I only dive a single but still use a 7' hose and have my backup lights (Still saving for a primary one) as i see all of these to have a valuable function. The only thing that i can see that would be different without any argument is that an 'open water' rig can have a single cylinder where as a 'cave' rig must have twins. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com

June 30th, 2006, 11:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
dlegros(Offline) 20% Ninja 80% Rebel Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 245	I think he means this one From http://www.wkpp.org/images/pina_equip/OW_rig2_r.jpeg Dom __________________ Dom I reject your reality and substitute my own DIR-RA

July 1st, 2006, 12:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
Falco(Offline) New Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bristol England Posts: 9	The main difference appears to be a single cylinder, but more importantly the position of the second, second stage, back-up or whatever you want to call it. Am I right in saying, on a cave rig, both second stages are wrapped around the neck ? The one you would donate in your mouth, and the back up on a lanyard around your neck ? On the `Open water rig` it appears the `back up` is located in the same position as advocated by most of the other training organisations. In closing, I`ve got to say, I`m a little surprised that this configuration of rig, since it does appear on the WKPP website isn`t that well known. More importantly, is it still a part of DIR doctrine ? Last edited by Falco; July 1st, 2006 at 12:32 AM. Reason: bad spelling

June 30th, 2006, 11:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
*EBT*(Offline) Just another crouton... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Brighton Posts: 413	bear in mind Im not DIR... but... OW rig has a 5' hose, single tank, single backup light.

July 1st, 2006, 12:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,097	Quote: (Originally Posted by Falco) The main difference appear to be a single cylinder, but more importantly the position of the second, second stage, back-up or whatever you want to call it. Am I right in saying, on a cave rig, both second stages are wrapped around the neck ? The one you would donate in your mouth, and the back up on a lanyard around your neck ? On the `Open water rig` it appears the `back up` is located in the same position as advocated by most of the other training organisations. In closing, I`ve got to say, I`m a little surprised that this configuration of rig, since it does appear on the WKPP website isn`t that well known. More importantly, is it still a part of DIR doctrine ? You are mistaken about the regs. The backup is still in a necklace around your neck, and the long hose is still hog looped (i.e under the right arm, around the back of your neck (from left to right) then into your mouth) Some people use a 5' hose rather than the 7' hose, but that is losing it's favour these days. Single tank/twin tanks is all down to the depth of the dive/complexity of the dive. HTH J __________________ John Kendall http://www.guetraining.com/ GUE Instruction, Santi and Halcyon Equipment NEW - Online Santi Shop

July 1st, 2006, 12:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
GoDiva(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 540	I dive a single set up. My reg has a din first stage. I do have a 7 foot hose though, and a cannister light. The 5 foot is fine if you do not need a primary light (in the waters I dive in mostly this is necessary though). 7 foot is a bit long if you have nowhere to hook it behind (When I dived without cannister light I would route it round eg. a block of led). __________________ "Miss Dodgy-Pockets" or "Miss Lime-Green, Clear-Skirt Mask"

July 1st, 2006, 12:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
jb2cool(Offline) Padawan learner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire Posts: 796	Quote: (Originally Posted by JohnKendall) Single tank/twin tanks is all down to the depth of the dive/complexity of the dive. Agreed for OW use but you cannot do a cave dive with a single as far as my understanding goes. __________________ http://jb2cool.bulldoghome.com

July 1st, 2006, 01:08 PM	#10 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,097	Quote: (Originally Posted by jb2cool) Agreed for OW use but you cannot do a cave dive with a single as far as my understanding goes. Correct, but that is due to the increased complexity of a cave dive. OW/Deep wreck/ Cave dive It's all the same really, as you get more complicated you gain more procedures, but at a base level it's all the same. That's the whole point of the system. HTH J __________________ John Kendall http://www.guetraining.com/ GUE Instruction, Santi and Halcyon Equipment NEW - Online Santi Shop