Shut Downs

ellisn · February 1st, 2006, 11:06 AM

Devils in the detail so:

When swapping primary to necklace do you drop the primary then retreive after swapping or do you try keeping hold of the primary while putting the backup in with the same hand? Guess this is the case as holding the primary hose still allows enough room to hold the backup. In the video clips I've seen, the diver uses his left hand to handle the necklace so he can keep hold of the primary reg but with a torch this would probably result in blinding a few people including yourself.

Cheers yet again

Neil

Mark Chase · February 1st, 2006, 11:32 AM

Strangely they didn't seem too bothered about you blinding your self your buddy or anyone else for that mater??

I assumed that with practice you could hold both the primary and the torch and avoid doing this but the matter wasn't clarified. I suffered arc eye on several occasions sometimes self induced and some times via my buddy. :D

ATB

Mark Chase

ellisn · February 1st, 2006, 11:50 AM

Cheers Mark, I guess at least by blinding your buddy they will not be able to see the instructor signalling them to pull an OOA :D

Great fundies write up by the way, looking forward to doing mine in March.

Neil

*Rich Walker* · February 1st, 2006, 12:04 PM

Picking up the backup with the left hand (with the light in it) is just fine. If it flashes and alerts your buddy, then thats a good thing. In "real life" switching to backup would generally need attention from the buddy, or at least alerting them to the change in circumstance.

As with most things in DIR, things often serve two purposes

Rich

Spectre · February 1st, 2006, 03:22 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by ellisn)

When swapping primary to necklace do you drop the primary then retreive after swapping or do you try keeping hold of the primary while putting the backup in with the same hand?

Tap the backup purge to make sure it's flowing. remove primary, clip off primary, pop backup into mouth.

Divingniknaks · February 1st, 2006, 05:19 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Spectre)

Tap the backup purge to make sure it's flowing. remove primary, clip off primary, pop backup into mouth.

Surely it's remove primary, insert back up, clip off primary ?

Keeping gas is more important than being tidy ? Or did I remember it wrong ?

Cheers

TobinGeorge · February 1st, 2006, 05:51 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Divingniknaks)

Surely it's remove primary, insert back up, clip off primary ?

Keeping gas is more important than being tidy ? Or did I remember it wrong ?

Cheers

I've seen both ways, i.e. clip off first, insert BU, or insert BU, then clip off. Seems to be a function of how smooth, quick, and certain the clip off is.

Is there a specified preference?

Tobin

Spectre · February 1st, 2006, 06:21 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Divingniknaks)

Surely it's remove primary, insert back up, clip off primary ?

Keeping gas is more important than being tidy ? Or did I remember it wrong ?

I'm not really concerned about the extra partial second it takes to stow the reg, unless of course I have a need for gas immediately [which is very rare, expecially in the context of valve drills that, I believe, we are speaking]. The habit of clipping off your primary immediately when switching regs is a good habit to be in and I know that I can get gas from my primary even when it's clipped off if I'm in a dire emegency.

So I personally remove and clip in one smooth motion, then get the secondary into my mouth with my right hand. It saves fumbling with two regs in one hand, is more efficent [although miniscule].

But, as tobin says, it definitely comes down to how quickly and smoothly your clip off is. I personally think it's a smoother and cleaner method.

Perhaps I'm a little jaded currently after having a sidemount diver added to the team and interpreting each reg switch as a signal from the shaking light.

*joe* · February 1st, 2006, 06:39 PM

In the technical classes, when dealing with the valve failures, you actually often times end up waiting a bit for your buddy to inspect the failure (following shut down and signal from yourself, of course). The logic is that your reg may or may not be disabled, so waiting for a "broken" confirmation from your buddy lets you know whether you should or not clip off.

Of course, you could also make the argument that clipping and unclipping ought to be a fairly smooth event, so in either case, it doesn't matter too much, as time lost is equivalent to a second or two.

As for when to insert the backup vs. clipping the primary off, someimes, the devil is the details. Since you're using your RH for your primary for the primary, and your left hand for your backup, you can do both. Unless you can't, of course. :D

joe

Gareth Burrows · February 1st, 2006, 09:00 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Strangely they didn't seem too bothered about you blinding your self your buddy or anyone else for that mater??

I assumed that with practice you could hold both the primary and the torch and avoid doing this but the matter wasn't clarified. I suffered arc eye on several occasions sometimes self induced and some times via my buddy. :D

ATB

Mark Chase

I got this from the course Mark....

1. Take backup in left hand whilst still holding torch, tap purge to check
2. Remove Primary with right hand but keep hold of it (presumably so it can go straight back in if there's an issue
3. Put backup in mouth
4. Clip off Primary.

February 1st, 2006, 11:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
ellisn(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Swindon Posts: 89	Shut Downs Devils in the detail so: When swapping primary to necklace do you drop the primary then retreive after swapping or do you try keeping hold of the primary while putting the backup in with the same hand? Guess this is the case as holding the primary hose still allows enough room to hold the backup. In the video clips I've seen, the diver uses his left hand to handle the necklace so he can keep hold of the primary reg but with a torch this would probably result in blinding a few people including yourself. Cheers yet again Neil

February 1st, 2006, 11:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mark Chase(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent England Posts: 905	Strangely they didn't seem too bothered about you blinding your self your buddy or anyone else for that mater?? I assumed that with practice you could hold both the primary and the torch and avoid doing this but the matter wasn't clarified. I suffered arc eye on several occasions sometimes self induced and some times via my buddy. :D ATB Mark Chase __________________ The only DIR Inspiration diver in the village

February 1st, 2006, 12:04 PM	#4 (permalink)
Rich Walker(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sheffield Posts: 300	Picking up the backup with the left hand (with the light in it) is just fine. If it flashes and alerts your buddy, then thats a good thing. In "real life" switching to backup would generally need attention from the buddy, or at least alerting them to the change in circumstance. As with most things in DIR, things often serve two purposes Rich __________________ Education, Equipment, Experience GUE training with Rich Walker

February 1st, 2006, 03:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
Spectre(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Florida Panhandle Posts: 38	Quote: (Originally Posted by ellisn) When swapping primary to necklace do you drop the primary then retreive after swapping or do you try keeping hold of the primary while putting the backup in with the same hand? Tap the backup purge to make sure it's flowing. remove primary, clip off primary, pop backup into mouth. __________________ -Jeff "This is your life, are you who you want to be?"

February 1st, 2006, 05:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
Divingniknaks(Offline) Resident purveyor of shiney kit.... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 1,038	Quote: (Originally Posted by Spectre) Tap the backup purge to make sure it's flowing. remove primary, clip off primary, pop backup into mouth. Surely it's remove primary, insert back up, clip off primary ? Keeping gas is more important than being tidy ? Or did I remember it wrong ? Cheers __________________ Phill ----------------------------- Salvo Lights, DirZone Gear , Frog Wings Dive ? http://www.divingniknaks.com

February 1st, 2006, 11:50 AM	#3 (permalink)
ellisn(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Swindon Posts: 89	Cheers Mark, I guess at least by blinding your buddy they will not be able to see the instructor signalling them to pull an OOA :D Great fundies write up by the way, looking forward to doing mine in March. Neil

February 1st, 2006, 05:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
TobinGeorge(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 569	Quote: (Originally Posted by Divingniknaks) Surely it's remove primary, insert back up, clip off primary ? Keeping gas is more important than being tidy ? Or did I remember it wrong ? Cheers I've seen both ways, i.e. clip off first, insert BU, or insert BU, then clip off. Seems to be a function of how smooth, quick, and certain the clip off is. Is there a specified preference? Tobin

February 1st, 2006, 06:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
Spectre(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Florida Panhandle Posts: 38	Quote: (Originally Posted by Divingniknaks) Surely it's remove primary, insert back up, clip off primary ? Keeping gas is more important than being tidy ? Or did I remember it wrong ? I'm not really concerned about the extra partial second it takes to stow the reg, unless of course I have a need for gas immediately [which is very rare, expecially in the context of valve drills that, I believe, we are speaking]. The habit of clipping off your primary immediately when switching regs is a good habit to be in and I know that I can get gas from my primary even when it's clipped off if I'm in a dire emegency. So I personally remove and clip in one smooth motion, then get the secondary into my mouth with my right hand. It saves fumbling with two regs in one hand, is more efficent [although miniscule]. But, as tobin says, it definitely comes down to how quickly and smoothly your clip off is. I personally think it's a smoother and cleaner method. Perhaps I'm a little jaded currently after having a sidemount diver added to the team and interpreting each reg switch as a signal from the shaking light. __________________ -Jeff "This is your life, are you who you want to be?"

February 1st, 2006, 06:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
joe(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Berkeley CA Posts: 12	In the technical classes, when dealing with the valve failures, you actually often times end up waiting a bit for your buddy to inspect the failure (following shut down and signal from yourself, of course). The logic is that your reg may or may not be disabled, so waiting for a "broken" confirmation from your buddy lets you know whether you should or not clip off. Of course, you could also make the argument that clipping and unclipping ought to be a fairly smooth event, so in either case, it doesn't matter too much, as time lost is equivalent to a second or two. As for when to insert the backup vs. clipping the primary off, someimes, the devil is the details. Since you're using your RH for your primary for the primary, and your left hand for your backup, you can do both. Unless you can't, of course. :D joe __________________ Joe Talavera www.5thd-X.com http://forums.5thd-x.com

February 1st, 2006, 09:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
Gareth Burrows(Offline) Chimp 2 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Horsham, West Sussex Posts: 369	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Strangely they didn't seem too bothered about you blinding your self your buddy or anyone else for that mater?? I assumed that with practice you could hold both the primary and the torch and avoid doing this but the matter wasn't clarified. I suffered arc eye on several occasions sometimes self induced and some times via my buddy. :D ATB Mark Chase I got this from the course Mark.... 1. Take backup in left hand whilst still holding torch, tap purge to check 2. Remove Primary with right hand but keep hold of it (presumably so it can go straight back in if there's an issue 3. Put backup in mouth 4. Clip off Primary. __________________ Garf Amusing and Clever Signature under construction.