Horizontal ascents/descents

ellisn · January 31st, 2006, 05:51 PM

From what I understand ascents should be carried out horizontal dumping from the rear valve.

Does this mean the torch should be swapped to the right hand before ascents? Otherwise I imagine it will be difficult to get that little bit of string whilst holding the torch in the same hand!

I find the idea of horizontal ascents the biggest worry about doing fundies, using the rear dump is often soundless so there isn't the comfort of knowing you are purging.

Cheers

Neil

*Richard Lundgren* · January 31st, 2006, 05:59 PM

The lights primary position is in your left hand. If you need to work with your left hand, simply hold the light head with your right hand while you for example use your rear dump valve. Then switch back to the left hand when you are done.

Take care,
Richard Lundgren

Spectre · January 31st, 2006, 06:04 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by ellisn)

From what I understand ascents should be carried out horizontal dumping from the rear valve.

Does this mean the torch should be swapped to the right hand before ascents? Otherwise I imagine it will be difficult to get that little bit of string whilst holding the torch in the same hand!

Let's take a step back to the overall concept of left hand activities vs. right hand activities. The concept here is that you don't have to change the way you do things as you progress in experience. So when trying to understand a concept, consider that possibly, eventually, your right hand will be on the trigger of a scooter... so anything you need to do with your right hand would involve stopping; so that would be critical functions like donating gas to a buddy. Anything you would be doing with your left hand... checking pressure or adjusting bouyancy, for example, would be non-critical functions; thus should be able to be performed while you remain on the trigger.

Next up comes communication. You use your light to maintain communication with your buddy. When the light goes away for a period of time, your buddy -should- be looking to see that you are ok. If you are keeping your light in your left hand while you adjust bouyancy, you not only run the risk of annoying your buddy who keeps checking on you when you move the light out of the field of view; but in the future with scootering, you run the risk of running into something 'cause you can't see where you are going

So with all that said... you want to get into the habit of switching your light to your right hand temporarily while you adjust your bouyancy; and 'charging' your SPG with your light, switching the head to the right hand, unclipping and checking your pressure, then switching back.

Basically, you keep your light in your left hand and keep a steady beam that your buddy can see. When need to do something with your left that will distrupt that communication, switch it to your right temporarily while you do the action.

Quote:

I find the idea of horizontal ascents the biggest worry about doing fundies, using the rear dump is often soundless so there isn't the comfort of knowing you are purging.

Just because it's soundless doesn't mean you don't know you are purging. You'll actually feel the bubbles pass your hand. With experience you'll know your dump valve and know your bouyancy adjustments and actually get a sense for exactly how much you dump when you dump.

It just takes a little bit of experience to get used to it... like everything.

**Howard Payne** · January 31st, 2006, 06:14 PM

I understand the switch of the light to the right hand whilst you're dumping, but I'm finding it easier to dump with the inflator hose on ascents because it "autodumps" at the shoulder on the drysuit at the same time. In a drysuit - is this wrong? Does it matter? What would you guys recommend? Thanks for your thoughts

*JohnKendall* · January 31st, 2006, 06:20 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Howard Payne)

I understand the switch of the light to the right hand whilst you're dumping, but I'm finding it easier to dump with the inflator hose on ascents because it "autodumps" at the shoulder on the drysuit at the same time. In a drysuit - is this wrong? Does it matter? What would you guys recommend? Thanks for your thoughts

You need to be able to use whichever dump is more applicable to the situation. The reason we say to use the Rear dump on ascents is to build muscle memory for using that dump and to enable you to ascend without dropping trim. You should be able to dump the drysuit without too much tipping.

HTH
John

ellisn · January 31st, 2006, 06:30 PM

Added complication arises at the thought of doing all this while holding a spool, the right hand would need to hold the spool and torch while 'dumping'. Guess I will just give it a go and see how it feels. In shallow water of course.

Spectre, No chance of feeling the air with my hands they are well and trully padded this time of year :D

As I said i will just try it out and see what happens.

Cheers

Neil

Spectre · January 31st, 2006, 07:07 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by ellisn)

Added complication arises at the thought of doing all this while holding a spool, the right hand would need to hold the spool and torch while 'dumping'. Guess I will just give it a go and see how it feels. In shallow water of course.

Yea it's kinda a pain. Run the spool and hold the light in your left hand. stop, switch hands with the spool and light, dump, switch back.

There's a reason when there's depth changes on a jump I point to my buddy and say "You, spool, run over there"

Quote:

Spectre, No chance of feeling the air with my hands they are well and trully padded this time of year :D

You'd be surprised what you can feel. it just takes some recognition. I'm only a recent resident of warm water picnic table weenie diving, I earned my fins wreck diving in the cold New England waters

Quote:

As I said i will just try it out and see what happens.

Yep. it's all about giving it a try and building muscle memory and experience.

GoDiva · January 31st, 2006, 07:11 PM

After the couple of dry suit dives I have don I have come back round to dumping the wing (with some wriggling). The only thing I am worried about is dumping the drysuit in horizontal position. On ascending, the air at my feet stays there and starts to expand. I do not seem to be able to get it back up to my shoulders and the dump valve there.

This means that if my dive has been deeper than say 9 m, I end up struggling at 3. After surfacing when giving up the struggle (and hanging in the water vertically) I can easily continue swimming and hovering at 1.5 m .

Any tricks on handling this?

*JohnKendall* · January 31st, 2006, 07:16 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by GoDiva)

After the couple of dry suit dives I have don I have come back round to dumping the wing (with some wriggling). The only thing I am worried about is dumping the drysuit in horizontal position. On ascending, the air at my feet stays there and starts to expand. I do not seem to be able to get it back up to my shoulders and the dump valve there.

This means that if my dive has been deeper than say 9 m, I end up struggling at 3. After surfacing when giving up the struggle (and hanging in the water vertically) I can easily continue swimming and hovering at 1.5 m .

Any tricks on handling this?

This is one of the things that the Centre of Gravity drill is good for. Shift your centre of gravity a bit towards your feet and the air should shift towards your head. Then you can dump the gas. The trick is to do it early before it becomes uncontrollable.

HTH
John

Gary Moffat · January 31st, 2006, 07:22 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by GoDiva)

After the couple of dry suit dives I have don I have come back round to dumping the wing (with some wriggling). The only thing I am worried about is dumping the drysuit in horizontal position. On ascending, the air at my feet stays there and starts to expand. I do not seem to be able to get it back up to my shoulders and the dump valve there.

This means that if my dive has been deeper than say 9 m, I end up struggling at 3. After surfacing when giving up the struggle (and hanging in the water vertically) I can easily continue swimming and hovering at 1.5 m .

Any tricks on handling this?

Drop trim (your legs down CG shift) and let the trapped gas rise up, readjust trim. Job done

January 31st, 2006, 05:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
ellisn(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Swindon Posts: 89	Horizontal ascents/descents From what I understand ascents should be carried out horizontal dumping from the rear valve. Does this mean the torch should be swapped to the right hand before ascents? Otherwise I imagine it will be difficult to get that little bit of string whilst holding the torch in the same hand! I find the idea of horizontal ascents the biggest worry about doing fundies, using the rear dump is often soundless so there isn't the comfort of knowing you are purging. Cheers Neil

January 31st, 2006, 06:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
Spectre(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Florida Panhandle Posts: 38	Quote: (Originally Posted by ellisn) From what I understand ascents should be carried out horizontal dumping from the rear valve. Does this mean the torch should be swapped to the right hand before ascents? Otherwise I imagine it will be difficult to get that little bit of string whilst holding the torch in the same hand! Let's take a step back to the overall concept of left hand activities vs. right hand activities. The concept here is that you don't have to change the way you do things as you progress in experience. So when trying to understand a concept, consider that possibly, eventually, your right hand will be on the trigger of a scooter... so anything you need to do with your right hand would involve stopping; so that would be critical functions like donating gas to a buddy. Anything you would be doing with your left hand... checking pressure or adjusting bouyancy, for example, would be non-critical functions; thus should be able to be performed while you remain on the trigger. Next up comes communication. You use your light to maintain communication with your buddy. When the light goes away for a period of time, your buddy -should- be looking to see that you are ok. If you are keeping your light in your left hand while you adjust bouyancy, you not only run the risk of annoying your buddy who keeps checking on you when you move the light out of the field of view; but in the future with scootering, you run the risk of running into something 'cause you can't see where you are going So with all that said... you want to get into the habit of switching your light to your right hand temporarily while you adjust your bouyancy; and 'charging' your SPG with your light, switching the head to the right hand, unclipping and checking your pressure, then switching back. Basically, you keep your light in your left hand and keep a steady beam that your buddy can see. When need to do something with your left that will distrupt that communication, switch it to your right temporarily while you do the action. Quote: I find the idea of horizontal ascents the biggest worry about doing fundies, using the rear dump is often soundless so there isn't the comfort of knowing you are purging. Just because it's soundless doesn't mean you don't know you are purging. You'll actually feel the bubbles pass your hand. With experience you'll know your dump valve and know your bouyancy adjustments and actually get a sense for exactly how much you dump when you dump. It just takes a little bit of experience to get used to it... like everything. __________________ -Jeff "This is your life, are you who you want to be?" Last edited by Spectre; January 31st, 2006 at 06:15 PM.

January 31st, 2006, 06:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
Howard Payne (Online) Strokey Dokily Doo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,210	I understand the switch of the light to the right hand whilst you're dumping, but I'm finding it easier to dump with the inflator hose on ascents because it "autodumps" at the shoulder on the drysuit at the same time. In a drysuit - is this wrong? Does it matter? What would you guys recommend? Thanks for your thoughts __________________ The Foxturd Chimp

January 31st, 2006, 07:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
Spectre(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Florida Panhandle Posts: 38	Quote: (Originally Posted by ellisn) Added complication arises at the thought of doing all this while holding a spool, the right hand would need to hold the spool and torch while 'dumping'. Guess I will just give it a go and see how it feels. In shallow water of course. Yea it's kinda a pain. Run the spool and hold the light in your left hand. stop, switch hands with the spool and light, dump, switch back. There's a reason when there's depth changes on a jump I point to my buddy and say "You, spool, run over there" Quote: Spectre, No chance of feeling the air with my hands they are well and trully padded this time of year :D You'd be surprised what you can feel. it just takes some recognition. I'm only a recent resident of warm water picnic table weenie diving, I earned my fins wreck diving in the cold New England waters Quote: As I said i will just try it out and see what happens. Yep. it's all about giving it a try and building muscle memory and experience. __________________ -Jeff "This is your life, are you who you want to be?"

January 31st, 2006, 05:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
Richard Lundgren(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 112	The lights primary position is in your left hand. If you need to work with your left hand, simply hold the light head with your right hand while you for example use your rear dump valve. Then switch back to the left hand when you are done. Take care, Richard Lundgren

January 31st, 2006, 06:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,102	Quote: (Originally Posted by Howard Payne) I understand the switch of the light to the right hand whilst you're dumping, but I'm finding it easier to dump with the inflator hose on ascents because it "autodumps" at the shoulder on the drysuit at the same time. In a drysuit - is this wrong? Does it matter? What would you guys recommend? Thanks for your thoughts You need to be able to use whichever dump is more applicable to the situation. The reason we say to use the Rear dump on ascents is to build muscle memory for using that dump and to enable you to ascend without dropping trim. You should be able to dump the drysuit without too much tipping. HTH John

January 31st, 2006, 06:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
ellisn(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Swindon Posts: 89	Added complication arises at the thought of doing all this while holding a spool, the right hand would need to hold the spool and torch while 'dumping'. Guess I will just give it a go and see how it feels. In shallow water of course. Spectre, No chance of feeling the air with my hands they are well and trully padded this time of year :D As I said i will just try it out and see what happens. Cheers Neil

January 31st, 2006, 07:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
GoDiva (Online) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 563	After the couple of dry suit dives I have don I have come back round to dumping the wing (with some wriggling). The only thing I am worried about is dumping the drysuit in horizontal position. On ascending, the air at my feet stays there and starts to expand. I do not seem to be able to get it back up to my shoulders and the dump valve there. This means that if my dive has been deeper than say 9 m, I end up struggling at 3. After surfacing when giving up the struggle (and hanging in the water vertically) I can easily continue swimming and hovering at 1.5 m . Any tricks on handling this?

January 31st, 2006, 07:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,102	Quote: (Originally Posted by GoDiva) After the couple of dry suit dives I have don I have come back round to dumping the wing (with some wriggling). The only thing I am worried about is dumping the drysuit in horizontal position. On ascending, the air at my feet stays there and starts to expand. I do not seem to be able to get it back up to my shoulders and the dump valve there. This means that if my dive has been deeper than say 9 m, I end up struggling at 3. After surfacing when giving up the struggle (and hanging in the water vertically) I can easily continue swimming and hovering at 1.5 m . Any tricks on handling this? This is one of the things that the Centre of Gravity drill is good for. Shift your centre of gravity a bit towards your feet and the air should shift towards your head. Then you can dump the gas. The trick is to do it early before it becomes uncontrollable. HTH John

January 31st, 2006, 07:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
Gary Moffat(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: East Lothian Posts: 120	Quote: (Originally Posted by GoDiva) After the couple of dry suit dives I have don I have come back round to dumping the wing (with some wriggling). The only thing I am worried about is dumping the drysuit in horizontal position. On ascending, the air at my feet stays there and starts to expand. I do not seem to be able to get it back up to my shoulders and the dump valve there. This means that if my dive has been deeper than say 9 m, I end up struggling at 3. After surfacing when giving up the struggle (and hanging in the water vertically) I can easily continue swimming and hovering at 1.5 m . Any tricks on handling this? Drop trim (your legs down CG shift) and let the trapped gas rise up, readjust trim. Job done