To help or not, that is the question?

Jonathan · June 22nd, 2006, 12:47 AM

I have a friend who wants to be DIR but can't commit to doing a fundies course. Their kit is pretty close but skills and team work etc needs some polishing.

So in this situation what would you do?

Would you help them improve yourself (and make them a better buddy for you) or not get involved? I don't mean run a fundies course for them (would that i could!), but just give them some pointers that would make your dives with them more enjoyable/safer/etc.

I suppose what I'm getting at is it better to get them closer or go along the adage of do it right or not at all?

Any thoughts greatfully received.

Cheers

Jonathan

GoDiva · June 22nd, 2006, 07:42 AM

I'm a member of a dive club, and we take it in turns to give training. A couple of weeks ago I had them frogkicking and backwards kicking and helicopter turning all through the pool.
I learned quite a few skills before taking my fundies too, so why not?

LCF · June 22nd, 2006, 08:03 AM

I've been working with a new diver who knows he's going to go DIR. He's not at the skills point to do Fundies yet. I've been helping with some tips on trim and trying to steer him to a modified flutter, and the next time we dive together, we're going to begin with the frog kick. If you have yourself been trained properly, and you are careful about what you pass along, I don't see a problem with it.

**neilh** · June 22nd, 2006, 09:53 AM

Get them to go along to the DIR gig and get on an intro to DIR workshop?

Team awareness is something you can work on outside of the course I think - skills are slightly trickier. Perhaps see if there's a friendly instructor willing to do a couple of dives to go over some essential skills like OOG that could then be practiced afterwards?

lizardland · June 22nd, 2006, 10:49 AM

There's a lot of divers on here who started with DIR/Hogarthian diving long before GUE and fundamentals existed. There was no choice but to self-educate. As far as I know most of them are still alive

graham_hk · June 22nd, 2006, 12:37 PM

IMHO attitude is much more important than skill. If your buddy has the correct attitude and is willing to try diving the way you do then I can't see any good reason not too help them. If you're happy to dive with them surely you have something to contribute?? Maybe the only sure way is from an instructor but Stuart raises an important point - just be careful what you learn off the internet LOL

Graham

GoDiva · June 22nd, 2006, 01:26 PM

With skills I was also thinking of basic ones like buoyancy, trim, kicks,...
OOG might not be a bad thing to practice. This is about as far as I got before my fundies, and for basic recreational OW dives you do not need much more.

limeyx · June 22nd, 2006, 05:22 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by GoDiva)

With skills I was also thinking of basic ones like buoyancy, trim, kicks,...
OOG might not be a bad thing to practice. This is about as far as I got before my fundies, and for basic recreational OW dives you do not need much more.

Also, dive planning , minimum gas calculations, hand signals, light signals ... all these can be done as long as the person imparting them has a sound grip on the concepts.

TobinGeorge · June 22nd, 2006, 05:24 PM

I see two basic levels of interest; the curious, and those pretty committed to taking Fundies.

For the first I'm happy to explain what I know (doesn't take very long

)

For second group I'm happy to help them get their gear sorted, get trimmed out, and work on buoyancy. If you have those three you are in a much better position to learn the skills taught in Fundies.

As in all endevours trying to explain to others is the best way to reinforce these things in me. The practice of mentoring others pre-class is pretty well established, just look at Tech-1 and higher students. Practice before class is vital.

Tobin

Chris B · June 22nd, 2006, 07:36 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jonathan)

I have a friend who wants to be DIR but can't commit to doing a fundies course. Their kit is pretty close but skills and team work etc needs some polishing.

So in this situation what would you do?

Cut him some slack...for a while.

People don't know what they don't know so it isn't fare to judge someone who hasn't got all the facts (I went through the same process with my current dive partner [who is now Tec 1] and he started out as 'Poseidon man')

Sounds like at the moment, he cant see the value to himself so I would work with him with the thought "what does this system have that would be of value to him" in mind and emphasis those points. (Not what you think he should have but what he would value...theres a difference) If you go down this route and he isn't interested......your call

cheers

Chris B

June 22nd, 2006, 12:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jonathan(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 215	To help or not, that is the question? I have a friend who wants to be DIR but can't commit to doing a fundies course. Their kit is pretty close but skills and team work etc needs some polishing. So in this situation what would you do? Would you help them improve yourself (and make them a better buddy for you) or not get involved? I don't mean run a fundies course for them (would that i could!), but just give them some pointers that would make your dives with them more enjoyable/safer/etc. I suppose what I'm getting at is it better to get them closer or go along the adage of do it right or not at all? Any thoughts greatfully received. Cheers Jonathan

June 22nd, 2006, 07:42 AM	#2 (permalink)
GoDiva(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 540	I'm a member of a dive club, and we take it in turns to give training. A couple of weeks ago I had them frogkicking and backwards kicking and helicopter turning all through the pool. I learned quite a few skills before taking my fundies too, so why not? __________________ "Miss Dodgy-Pockets" or "Miss Lime-Green, Clear-Skirt Mask"

June 22nd, 2006, 10:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
lizardland(Offline) LCS Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Evidently Chickentown Posts: 591	There's a lot of divers on here who started with DIR/Hogarthian diving long before GUE and fundamentals existed. There was no choice but to self-educate. As far as I know most of them are still alive __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk The Lot isn't the only place to dive: http://www.lulu.com/content/613554

June 22nd, 2006, 01:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
GoDiva(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 540	With skills I was also thinking of basic ones like buoyancy, trim, kicks,... OOG might not be a bad thing to practice. This is about as far as I got before my fundies, and for basic recreational OW dives you do not need much more. __________________ "Miss Dodgy-Pockets" or "Miss Lime-Green, Clear-Skirt Mask"

June 22nd, 2006, 07:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
Chris B (Online) Chris B Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NW UK Posts: 229	Quote: (Originally Posted by Jonathan) I have a friend who wants to be DIR but can't commit to doing a fundies course. Their kit is pretty close but skills and team work etc needs some polishing. So in this situation what would you do? Cut him some slack...for a while. People don't know what they don't know so it isn't fare to judge someone who hasn't got all the facts (I went through the same process with my current dive partner [who is now Tec 1] and he started out as 'Poseidon man') Sounds like at the moment, he cant see the value to himself so I would work with him with the thought "what does this system have that would be of value to him" in mind and emphasis those points. (Not what you think he should have but what he would value...theres a difference) If you go down this route and he isn't interested......your call cheers Chris B __________________ www.merseydivers.com www.boardmanbikes.com

June 22nd, 2006, 08:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	I've been working with a new diver who knows he's going to go DIR. He's not at the skills point to do Fundies yet. I've been helping with some tips on trim and trying to steer him to a modified flutter, and the next time we dive together, we're going to begin with the frog kick. If you have yourself been trained properly, and you are careful about what you pass along, I don't see a problem with it.

June 22nd, 2006, 09:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
neilh (Online) Haemoglobin on the bus... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Barnsley, UK Posts: 1,900	Get them to go along to the DIR gig and get on an intro to DIR workshop? Team awareness is something you can work on outside of the course I think - skills are slightly trickier. Perhaps see if there's a friendly instructor willing to do a couple of dives to go over some essential skills like OOG that could then be practiced afterwards?

June 22nd, 2006, 12:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
graham_hk(Offline) Pinoy ako pinoy Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: here, there and everywhere Posts: 779	IMHO attitude is much more important than skill. If your buddy has the correct attitude and is willing to try diving the way you do then I can't see any good reason not too help them. If you're happy to dive with them surely you have something to contribute?? Maybe the only sure way is from an instructor but Stuart raises an important point - just be careful what you learn off the internet LOL Graham

June 22nd, 2006, 05:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
limeyx(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 707	Quote: (Originally Posted by GoDiva) With skills I was also thinking of basic ones like buoyancy, trim, kicks,... OOG might not be a bad thing to practice. This is about as far as I got before my fundies, and for basic recreational OW dives you do not need much more. Also, dive planning , minimum gas calculations, hand signals, light signals ... all these can be done as long as the person imparting them has a sound grip on the concepts.

June 22nd, 2006, 05:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
TobinGeorge(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 566	I see two basic levels of interest; the curious, and those pretty committed to taking Fundies. For the first I'm happy to explain what I know (doesn't take very long ) For second group I'm happy to help them get their gear sorted, get trimmed out, and work on buoyancy. If you have those three you are in a much better position to learn the skills taught in Fundies. As in all endevours trying to explain to others is the best way to reinforce these things in me. The practice of mentoring others pre-class is pretty well established, just look at Tech-1 and higher students. Practice before class is vital. Tobin