valve shut downs

keith_henson · November 25th, 2005, 10:21 PM

evening all

Whilst standing in the shower and doing physio on my right arm and shoulder (helen knows what im talking about) :D, I started practising valve shutdowns, to see if arms are still as flexible as when i started diving. Now I have no problem getting my arm horizontal behind my head and can easily scratch the middle/lower section of my back this way (yes i know, i have been told im a freak

)

My question is - when i try to shutdown underwater I cant reach the bloody valves. I can tilt my head back and left or right and crack my head on the pillars, but cant get a hand to them. I know i need a new drysuit but that will have to wait till fundage comes along. I have had my harness altered to bring it up my back, so that might/might not be a problem. Any suggestions?

And what is the correct DIR procedure for shutdowns?

Keith

fraser · November 25th, 2005, 10:25 PM

Ok first thing to try is wearing your rig in a t-shirt by the sound of it. If you can reach your valves, try with your undersuit on. If you can still reach, add the drysuit.

HTH,

Fraser.

Rob Andrews · November 25th, 2005, 10:28 PM

I believe the correct procedure for a shutdown drill is:

1. shutdown and breath down right post.
2. switch to backup reg.
3. open right post.
4. close isolator then open isolator.
5. shutdown and breath down left post.
6. switch to main reg.
7. open left post.

I had the same problem as you reaching valves and found moving the bands till the top set was up to the break on the cylinder neck, then adjusting the harnace till it was DIR tight did the trick. Also make sure you have a little air in your suit. At first I still couldn't reach my valves then realised my suit was shrink wrapped to my arms!

HTH

PS I'm not DIR trained though (yet!) so clarification of the above would be a good idea

*JohnKendall* · November 25th, 2005, 10:30 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by keith_henson)

evening all

Whilst standing in the shower and doing physio on my right arm and shoulder (helen knows what im talking about) :D, I started practising valve shutdowns, to see if arms are still as flexible as when i started diving. Now I have no problem getting my arm horizontal behind my head and can easily scratch the middle/lower section of my back this way (yes i know, i have been told im a freak

)

My question is - when i try to shutdown underwater I cant reach the bloody valves. I can tilt my head back and left or right and crack my head on the pillars, but cant get a hand to them. I know i need a new drysuit but that will have to wait till fundage comes along. I have had my harness altered to bring it up my back, so that might/might not be a problem. Any suggestions?

And what is the correct DIR procedure for shutdowns?

Keith

Blimey, lots of questions all at once.

Shutdowns - If your suit is restricting you, there is not a lot you can do. However make sure that when you are on the surface before you get in the water you pull any excess matierial in the suit upwards. Then when you first get in the water, close your auto-dump and inflate the drysuit a bit. Then lie down face in the water and wiggle with your arms and legs stretched out. If none of this helps, then you definately need to get the suit sorted.

How to do a valve drill: (Twinset)

Get yourself into a position where you can see and be seen by your team. Now check your backup works by giving it a bit of a purge.
Reach back and shut down your right post, while signalling to your team with your lamp.
When it is shut, breath down the hose and switch to your backup.
Clip off your long hose to right shoulder d-ring
Now reach back and turn right post on again
Close the isolator while signalling with lamp.
Open isolator.

Check that long hose works by purging it.
Unclip long hose*
Move light from left to right hand
Close left post
Breath down left post and switch to long hose
Reopen left post
Purge backup reg to check
Flow Check **

* - This is what I was told to teach on the ITC for Fundies level. At higher level you are expected to be able to close the left post, then unclip the long hose.

** - This is a check from right to left to make sure all the valves are on. Manipulate each valve in turn, closing it a little then opening all the way

HTH
J

Divingniknaks · November 25th, 2005, 10:31 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by desertrat)

I believe the correct procedure for a shutdown drill is:

1. shutdown and breath down right post.
2. switch to backup reg.
3. open right post.
4. close isolator then open isolator.
5. shutdown and breath down left post.
6. switch to main reg.
7. open left post.

You have it right Rob.

Of course there is always

6a Grab offered long hose

This is of course having forgotten item 3.

Thanks Neil for being there when I needed you :D

.

Divingniknaks · November 25th, 2005, 10:33 PM

John , what signal should be given ?

.

Gary Moffat · November 25th, 2005, 10:36 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by keith_henson)

And what is the correct DIR procedure for shutdowns?
Keith

For Skills drills:-

Signal Team indicating valve drill - Await OKs
Purge Backup reg - Ensure its working.
Shutdown right post and breath reg down.
Go to backup.
Clip off primary reg.
Open right post.
Shut down Isolator and re open.
Unclip primary reg and purge.
Shut down left post and breathe down reg.
Go back on to primary reg.
Check any other valves, e.g. Argon or stages. - Open close.
Signal to team drill completed and get team to check for and bubbles - you may have a loose first stage.
OKs all round.

While doing the drills you should be indicating to your team via light that you are manipulating valves. I.e. slow back and forward motion of light.

For real valve failure it may be obvious form bubble noise which valve has failed then close this down first else same procedure as above till problems resolved.
Team members can assist by identifying if teh failure is fixable or not.

Hope this helps and hoping I am not off base.

Cheers,

Gary.

*JohnKendall* · November 25th, 2005, 10:36 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Divingniknaks)

John , what signal should be given ?

.

I have been taught side to side flashing, similar to OOA but a little more controlled. After all you are turning off a valve, you may well be about to go OOA.

J

Divingniknaks · November 25th, 2005, 10:42 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by JohnKendall)

I have been taught side to side flashing, similar to OOA but a little more controlled. After all you are turning off a valve, you may well be about to go OOA.

J

Cheers, you obviously didn't read my Fundies report then :D

I reckon thats what I looked like according to Neil when I realised that I'd conciously and deliberately switched all my gas off. And all that barsteward Walker did was laugh :D

Where is he anyway ? Thought he'd have been here by now ?

**neilh** · November 27th, 2005, 02:17 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Divingniknaks)

I reckon thats what I looked like according to Neil when I realised that I'd conciously and deliberately switched all my gas off.

PMSL! I was going to post that smiley in response to your "what signal" question

Definitely reinforces the need to have your buddies watching you when you're doing the drills - it doesn't always go according to plan

November 25th, 2005, 10:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
keith_henson(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wye - Kentish Bit o ye old UK Posts: 5	valve shut downs evening all Whilst standing in the shower and doing physio on my right arm and shoulder (helen knows what im talking about) :D, I started practising valve shutdowns, to see if arms are still as flexible as when i started diving. Now I have no problem getting my arm horizontal behind my head and can easily scratch the middle/lower section of my back this way (yes i know, i have been told im a freak ) My question is - when i try to shutdown underwater I cant reach the bloody valves. I can tilt my head back and left or right and crack my head on the pillars, but cant get a hand to them. I know i need a new drysuit but that will have to wait till fundage comes along. I have had my harness altered to bring it up my back, so that might/might not be a problem. Any suggestions? And what is the correct DIR procedure for shutdowns? Keith

November 25th, 2005, 10:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
fraser(Offline) "I'm only late on your timescale" Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 463	Ok first thing to try is wearing your rig in a t-shirt by the sound of it. If you can reach your valves, try with your undersuit on. If you can still reach, add the drysuit. HTH, Fraser. __________________ Damn it feels good to be a gangsta

November 25th, 2005, 10:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
Divingniknaks(Offline) Resident purveyor of shiney kit.... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 1,038	Quote: (Originally Posted by desertrat) I believe the correct procedure for a shutdown drill is: 1. shutdown and breath down right post. 2. switch to backup reg. 3. open right post. 4. close isolator then open isolator. 5. shutdown and breath down left post. 6. switch to main reg. 7. open left post. You have it right Rob. Of course there is always 6a Grab offered long hose This is of course having forgotten item 3. Thanks Neil for being there when I needed you :D . __________________ Phill ----------------------------- Salvo Lights, DirZone Gear , Frog Wings Dive ? http://www.divingniknaks.com

November 25th, 2005, 10:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Divingniknaks(Offline) Resident purveyor of shiney kit.... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 1,038	John , what signal should be given ? . __________________ Phill ----------------------------- Salvo Lights, DirZone Gear , Frog Wings Dive ? http://www.divingniknaks.com

November 25th, 2005, 10:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
Divingniknaks(Offline) Resident purveyor of shiney kit.... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 1,038	Quote: (Originally Posted by JohnKendall) I have been taught side to side flashing, similar to OOA but a little more controlled. After all you are turning off a valve, you may well be about to go OOA. J Cheers, you obviously didn't read my Fundies report then :D I reckon thats what I looked like according to Neil when I realised that I'd conciously and deliberately switched all my gas off. And all that barsteward Walker did was laugh :D Where is he anyway ? Thought he'd have been here by now ? __________________ Phill ----------------------------- Salvo Lights, DirZone Gear , Frog Wings Dive ? http://www.divingniknaks.com

November 25th, 2005, 10:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
Rob Andrews(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wombourne, West Mids, UK Posts: 133	I believe the correct procedure for a shutdown drill is: 1. shutdown and breath down right post. 2. switch to backup reg. 3. open right post. 4. close isolator then open isolator. 5. shutdown and breath down left post. 6. switch to main reg. 7. open left post. I had the same problem as you reaching valves and found moving the bands till the top set was up to the break on the cylinder neck, then adjusting the harnace till it was DIR tight did the trick. Also make sure you have a little air in your suit. At first I still couldn't reach my valves then realised my suit was shrink wrapped to my arms! HTH PS I'm not DIR trained though (yet!) so clarification of the above would be a good idea

November 25th, 2005, 10:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,102	Quote: (Originally Posted by keith_henson) evening all Whilst standing in the shower and doing physio on my right arm and shoulder (helen knows what im talking about) :D, I started practising valve shutdowns, to see if arms are still as flexible as when i started diving. Now I have no problem getting my arm horizontal behind my head and can easily scratch the middle/lower section of my back this way (yes i know, i have been told im a freak ) My question is - when i try to shutdown underwater I cant reach the bloody valves. I can tilt my head back and left or right and crack my head on the pillars, but cant get a hand to them. I know i need a new drysuit but that will have to wait till fundage comes along. I have had my harness altered to bring it up my back, so that might/might not be a problem. Any suggestions? And what is the correct DIR procedure for shutdowns? Keith Blimey, lots of questions all at once. Shutdowns - If your suit is restricting you, there is not a lot you can do. However make sure that when you are on the surface before you get in the water you pull any excess matierial in the suit upwards. Then when you first get in the water, close your auto-dump and inflate the drysuit a bit. Then lie down face in the water and wiggle with your arms and legs stretched out. If none of this helps, then you definately need to get the suit sorted. How to do a valve drill: (Twinset) Get yourself into a position where you can see and be seen by your team. Now check your backup works by giving it a bit of a purge. Reach back and shut down your right post, while signalling to your team with your lamp. When it is shut, breath down the hose and switch to your backup. Clip off your long hose to right shoulder d-ring Now reach back and turn right post on again Close the isolator while signalling with lamp. Open isolator. Check that long hose works by purging it. Unclip long hose* Move light from left to right hand Close left post Breath down left post and switch to long hose Reopen left post Purge backup reg to check Flow Check ** * - This is what I was told to teach on the ITC for Fundies level. At higher level you are expected to be able to close the left post, then unclip the long hose. ** - This is a check from right to left to make sure all the valves are on. Manipulate each valve in turn, closing it a little then opening all the way HTH J

November 25th, 2005, 10:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
Gary Moffat(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: East Lothian Posts: 120	Quote: (Originally Posted by keith_henson) And what is the correct DIR procedure for shutdowns? Keith For Skills drills:- Signal Team indicating valve drill - Await OKs Purge Backup reg - Ensure its working. Shutdown right post and breath reg down. Go to backup. Clip off primary reg. Open right post. Shut down Isolator and re open. Unclip primary reg and purge. Shut down left post and breathe down reg. Go back on to primary reg. Check any other valves, e.g. Argon or stages. - Open close. Signal to team drill completed and get team to check for and bubbles - you may have a loose first stage. OKs all round. While doing the drills you should be indicating to your team via light that you are manipulating valves. I.e. slow back and forward motion of light. For real valve failure it may be obvious form bubble noise which valve has failed then close this down first else same procedure as above till problems resolved. Team members can assist by identifying if teh failure is fixable or not. Hope this helps and hoping I am not off base. Cheers, Gary.

November 25th, 2005, 10:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,102	Quote: (Originally Posted by Divingniknaks) John , what signal should be given ? . I have been taught side to side flashing, similar to OOA but a little more controlled. After all you are turning off a valve, you may well be about to go OOA. J

November 27th, 2005, 02:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
neilh(Offline) Haemoglobin on the bus... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Barnsley, UK Posts: 1,900	Quote: (Originally Posted by Divingniknaks) I reckon thats what I looked like according to Neil when I realised that I'd conciously and deliberately switched all my gas off. PMSL! I was going to post that smiley in response to your "what signal" question Definitely reinforces the need to have your buddies watching you when you're doing the drills - it doesn't always go according to plan