Air goes in - air comes out - wing use question

BarryNL · May 29th, 2006, 02:33 PM

I recently moved over to a BP/W system (Pioneer copy) and the guy in the shop said the correct way of using the wing was to add air via the inflator hose and release it via the dump valve at the bottom of the wing.

I've been trying this but it's a bit tricky unless you go at a 45 degree downward angle first. Is this really the correct way to do it, or should the inflator exhaust valve be used during diving too? And if so, should it really be fixed with inner tube to the harness, which is how he set it up.

Any info over the correct way/technique to be using gratefully received.

caverkevin · May 29th, 2006, 03:12 PM

I think there are as many clouds in the sky as ways to manage buoyancy. I will give you a quick run-down of what I do and why.

I mainly use the hose to vent gas from the wing. I like this becasue it is generally the same action for venting my dry suit. So I can do two things at once.

As for the bungie. I do not use a bungie under the d-ring. Instead route the hose under a piece of inner tube above the d-ring, higher on the shoulder. I think the bungie at the d-ring holds the hose down too low. Making it harder to vent gas. Attaching it higher on the shoulder keeps the hose closer to the same level as the elbow coming out of the wing.

For the bottom dump, there are a few reasons I do not manually use it. Finding the string with thick gloves can be trouble some. Reaching the pull dump can sometimes be difficult with stages and other task loading. There has also been a history of these pull dumps sticking open after pulling the string. This problem can be resolved underwater by keeping the outer housing loose and turnable. As a couple 1/8 to 1/4 turns back-and-fourth will knock the plunger back into place.

For me the big button on the end of the hose is the easiest to use. The easiest to find. The use of it has never caused a problem for me yet.

I treat the guy on the bottom as a over pressure relief valve. Only tend to pull the string to dump when I am stuck in a heads down position for some reason and need to dump gas.

Hope that helps.

Kevin

PfcAJ · May 29th, 2006, 04:40 PM

As I learned it in DIRF, use the power inflator to add and the dump valve whenever possible to vent.

Reasons: Using the dump valve keeps you in trim. There is no need to come out of trim to get the deflator higher than the elbow of the wing. Only aslight roll to the right is needed.

I'm not quite sure what you're describing in regards to your equipment. Maybe a picture could help?

Sometimes, the pull dump is impractical. Following cave contours and such is a good example, so don't get 100% set on using the dump.

Also, when using gloves, try grabbing the valve first, the string should land in your hand.

student · May 29th, 2006, 04:48 PM

A handy trick with the dump valve is to make sure you are pulling UPWARDS...I used to have the tendency of pulling the sting straight outwards which kinda pulls the wing down and traps air a bit. If you pull the string up the side of the tank I find gas seems to escape much more readily.
Sorry if Ive being lame in explaining and hope it helps...
P.

TobinGeorge · May 29th, 2006, 04:57 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by BarryNL)

I recently moved over to a BP/W system (Pioneer copy) and the guy in the shop said the correct way of using the wing was to add air via the inflator hose and release it via the dump valve at the bottom of the wing.

I've been trying this but it's a bit tricky unless you go at a 45 degree downward angle first. Is this really the correct way to do it, or should the inflator exhaust valve be used during diving too? And if so, should it really be fixed with inner tube to the harness, which is how he set it up.

Any info over the correct way/technique to be using gratefully received.

Barry,

A very very common problem for lots os folks using the rear OPV is pulling the string the wrong way. The OPV is in the diver's side of the bag. If you pull it down, i.e. towards the bottom of the sea, you have in effect pulled the wing and the OPV away from where the gas is. You have to "lift" the corner of the wing up towards the surface. If you do this you can vent when horizontal.

When I was first trying to condition myself to use the rear OPV whenever possible I added a very small weight to the end of the string, just a fisherman's split shot. This made finding the string much more predictable. I don't need it any more, but it helped a bunch at first.

I restrain just the LP hose with a piece of inner tube above the left Dring. I have a fairly large 1/8" bungee loop at the Dring. I tuck Power Inflator through this loop. It's real easy to pull out if I really need to raise the hose and dump. If I don't stick the power inflator through the bungee it can be had to find when scootering.

You are corect that with a "donut" wing you need to be "butt Up" to shift gas through the bottom arc of the wing, but you don't need to be to dump.

Good Luck,

Tobin

maccajim · June 1st, 2006, 12:34 AM

I always use the rear dump as u can stay in horizontal position you don't really have to move at all just your left hand what could be easier. When ascending u can be checking your team everyone at the same level.

To use the inflator hose you have to get out of trim in heads up possie. There could be situations say inside a wreck where u can't use the hose due to restriction since fundies i haven't used the hose ever except at the surface.

Little Pete · June 1st, 2006, 02:06 PM

With the right trim and action, using the back dump is very neat and easy. Don't get too hung up on it though as both the hose and OPV are there to use. Whatever most fits the situation or keeps you in most control is better.

I'd say after a while you'll find the hose is used less and less but work up to it.

Archangel · June 7th, 2006, 07:06 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by caverkevin)

As for the bungie. I do not use a bungie under the d-ring. . . . keeps the hose closer to the same level as the elbow coming out of the wing.

Kevin:

What a duh/lightbulb moment! Upon reading your post, I got up, tripped over my kid, ran out to my car, grabbed my BP/W and moved the inner tube from below my d-ring to above about shoulder level.

Thanks times a gazillon.

Once again, the amazing power of this board

Tevis

*JohnKendall* · June 7th, 2006, 07:24 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Archangel)

Kevin:

What a duh/lightbulb moment! Upon reading your post, I got up, tripped over my kid, ran out to my car, grabbed my BP/W and moved the inner tube from below my d-ring to above about shoulder level.

Thanks times a gazillon.

Once again, the amazing power of this board

Tevis

Be aware that that is not a DIR solution.

HTH
John

caverkevin · June 7th, 2006, 08:30 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by JohnKendall)

Be aware that that is not a DIR solution.

HTH
John

and you will punished accordingly

May 29th, 2006, 02:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
BarryNL(Offline) New Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Netherlands Posts: 51	Air goes in - air comes out - wing use question I recently moved over to a BP/W system (Pioneer copy) and the guy in the shop said the correct way of using the wing was to add air via the inflator hose and release it via the dump valve at the bottom of the wing. I've been trying this but it's a bit tricky unless you go at a 45 degree downward angle first. Is this really the correct way to do it, or should the inflator exhaust valve be used during diving too? And if so, should it really be fixed with inner tube to the harness, which is how he set it up. Any info over the correct way/technique to be using gratefully received.

June 1st, 2006, 12:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
maccajim(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Posts: 97	I always use rear dump I always use the rear dump as u can stay in horizontal position you don't really have to move at all just your left hand what could be easier. When ascending u can be checking your team everyone at the same level. To use the inflator hose you have to get out of trim in heads up possie. There could be situations say inside a wreck where u can't use the hose due to restriction since fundies i haven't used the hose ever except at the surface.

June 7th, 2006, 07:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
Archangel(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 19	Quote: (Originally Posted by caverkevin) As for the bungie. I do not use a bungie under the d-ring. . . . keeps the hose closer to the same level as the elbow coming out of the wing. Kevin: What a duh/lightbulb moment! Upon reading your post, I got up, tripped over my kid, ran out to my car, grabbed my BP/W and moved the inner tube from below my d-ring to above about shoulder level. Thanks times a gazillon. Once again, the amazing power of this board Tevis __________________ Tevis Verrett On a quest to achieve the penultimate in precision: 4" off the sea bed floor bouyancy with perfect trim

June 7th, 2006, 07:24 PM	#9 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,102	Quote: (Originally Posted by Archangel) Kevin: What a duh/lightbulb moment! Upon reading your post, I got up, tripped over my kid, ran out to my car, grabbed my BP/W and moved the inner tube from below my d-ring to above about shoulder level. Thanks times a gazillon. Once again, the amazing power of this board Tevis Be aware that that is not a DIR solution. HTH John __________________ John Kendall http://www.guetraining.com/ GUE Instruction, Santi and Halcyon Equipment NEW - Online Santi Shop

May 29th, 2006, 03:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
caverkevin(Offline) Doing It Caverkevin Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North Kackilackie Posts: 363	I think there are as many clouds in the sky as ways to manage buoyancy. I will give you a quick run-down of what I do and why. I mainly use the hose to vent gas from the wing. I like this becasue it is generally the same action for venting my dry suit. So I can do two things at once. As for the bungie. I do not use a bungie under the d-ring. Instead route the hose under a piece of inner tube above the d-ring, higher on the shoulder. I think the bungie at the d-ring holds the hose down too low. Making it harder to vent gas. Attaching it higher on the shoulder keeps the hose closer to the same level as the elbow coming out of the wing. For the bottom dump, there are a few reasons I do not manually use it. Finding the string with thick gloves can be trouble some. Reaching the pull dump can sometimes be difficult with stages and other task loading. There has also been a history of these pull dumps sticking open after pulling the string. This problem can be resolved underwater by keeping the outer housing loose and turnable. As a couple 1/8 to 1/4 turns back-and-fourth will knock the plunger back into place. For me the big button on the end of the hose is the easiest to use. The easiest to find. The use of it has never caused a problem for me yet. I treat the guy on the bottom as a over pressure relief valve. Only tend to pull the string to dump when I am stuck in a heads down position for some reason and need to dump gas. Hope that helps. Kevin

May 29th, 2006, 04:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
PfcAJ(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 139	As I learned it in DIRF, use the power inflator to add and the dump valve whenever possible to vent. Reasons: Using the dump valve keeps you in trim. There is no need to come out of trim to get the deflator higher than the elbow of the wing. Only aslight roll to the right is needed. I'm not quite sure what you're describing in regards to your equipment. Maybe a picture could help? Sometimes, the pull dump is impractical. Following cave contours and such is a good example, so don't get 100% set on using the dump. Also, when using gloves, try grabbing the valve first, the string should land in your hand.

May 29th, 2006, 04:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
student(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bristol Posts: 56	A handy trick with the dump valve is to make sure you are pulling UPWARDS...I used to have the tendency of pulling the sting straight outwards which kinda pulls the wing down and traps air a bit. If you pull the string up the side of the tank I find gas seems to escape much more readily. Sorry if Ive being lame in explaining and hope it helps... P.

May 29th, 2006, 04:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
TobinGeorge (Online) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 569	Quote: (Originally Posted by BarryNL) I recently moved over to a BP/W system (Pioneer copy) and the guy in the shop said the correct way of using the wing was to add air via the inflator hose and release it via the dump valve at the bottom of the wing. I've been trying this but it's a bit tricky unless you go at a 45 degree downward angle first. Is this really the correct way to do it, or should the inflator exhaust valve be used during diving too? And if so, should it really be fixed with inner tube to the harness, which is how he set it up. Any info over the correct way/technique to be using gratefully received. Barry, A very very common problem for lots os folks using the rear OPV is pulling the string the wrong way. The OPV is in the diver's side of the bag. If you pull it down, i.e. towards the bottom of the sea, you have in effect pulled the wing and the OPV away from where the gas is. You have to "lift" the corner of the wing up towards the surface. If you do this you can vent when horizontal. When I was first trying to condition myself to use the rear OPV whenever possible I added a very small weight to the end of the string, just a fisherman's split shot. This made finding the string much more predictable. I don't need it any more, but it helped a bunch at first. I restrain just the LP hose with a piece of inner tube above the left Dring. I have a fairly large 1/8" bungee loop at the Dring. I tuck Power Inflator through this loop. It's real easy to pull out if I really need to raise the hose and dump. If I don't stick the power inflator through the bungee it can be had to find when scootering. You are corect that with a "donut" wing you need to be "butt Up" to shift gas through the bottom arc of the wing, but you don't need to be to dump. Good Luck, Tobin

June 1st, 2006, 02:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
Little Pete(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: UK Posts: 509	With the right trim and action, using the back dump is very neat and easy. Don't get too hung up on it though as both the hose and OPV are there to use. Whatever most fits the situation or keeps you in most control is better. I'd say after a while you'll find the hose is used less and less but work up to it.

June 7th, 2006, 08:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
caverkevin(Offline) Doing It Caverkevin Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North Kackilackie Posts: 363	Quote: (Originally Posted by JohnKendall) Be aware that that is not a DIR solution. HTH John and you will punished accordingly