Touch signalling

LCF · May 22nd, 2006, 07:04 AM

I have this midwater disorientation thing . . .

I want to work on it by doing a bunch of mask-off work (in addition, of course, to the midwater stops/S-drills etc. that we do in the green murk anyway). From Fundies, I'm familiar with the arm hold, and the shoves forward to indicate moving off, and the squeeze to indicate stopping. But what are the touch signals for move up, level off, and move down? And how are they given?

Neither my buddy nor I has done this kind of work before, and I'd just as soon we didn't make up our own signals and have to relearn them later.

Rick · May 22nd, 2006, 02:38 PM

If your mask off you should signal your team with your primary light and extend your right hand for one of them to grab hold off.

So with your hand open, palm down one of your buddies should over lap your hand with his and hold onto your thumb. Level off is a horizontal movement of your hand....up is by your buddy lifting your thumb...down is by your buddy pushing down on your thumb....the more agressive or faster the action happens dictates the urgency you should re-adjust

All this is learnt in Tech 1 or sometimes even Cave

Hope this helps

LCF · May 22nd, 2006, 06:13 PM

Thanks! I'm not ready for Tech 1, but I think the mask off work will help me with other issues.

limeyx · May 22nd, 2006, 06:32 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF)

I have this midwater disorientation thing . . .

I want to work on it by doing a bunch of mask-off work (in addition, of course, to the midwater stops/S-drills etc. that we do in the green murk anyway). From Fundies, I'm familiar with the arm hold, and the shoves forward to indicate moving off, and the squeeze to indicate stopping. But what are the touch signals for move up, level off, and move down? And how are they given?

Neither my buddy nor I has done this kind of work before, and I'd just as soon we didn't make up our own signals and have to relearn them later.

What kind of dis-orientation? If you are going to practice mask off in mid-water, you want to make sure you are comfy close to the bottom first, and have a way of getting your mask back easily if you panic in mid-water (been there myself)

But are you sure mask-off is going to help your problem? How about practicing an ascent/descent drill with stops in mid-water, or even just hanging at 20 feet with no bottom until you get used to it?

One way is to go down to 50 or so feet, take an extra weight belt (or find something to tie off to), shoot a bag and attach it to the bottom.

Then ascend to 20 feet using the line as a reference, and do your drills at 20 keeping the line in sight and trying not to vary the depth by too much.

LCF · May 22nd, 2006, 07:34 PM

My thought was to do the mask-off work close to the bottom. That way, if I do lose orientation, it's a quick procedure to replace the mask and clear it and regain a good visual reference.

We regularly do free ascents and ascents up a line, and shoot bags and ascend while reeling in line. As we've gotten better at keeping our position wrt one another, I have fallen into a trap I know about -- I'm using my teammates as my visual reference. Shortly after Fundies, I managed to cause a 300+ dive technical diver to flip over backwards, because my buoyancy control was so poor, and he had become so dependent on his teammate as a reference. Prior to diving with me, he had not recognized this.

I want to do cave training, so I think it's critically important that I be comfortable and stable with no visual reference AT ALL -- eg. lights out -- and so I have been trying to come up with ways to challenge myself and improve this.

limeyx · May 22nd, 2006, 09:15 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF)

My thought was to do the mask-off work close to the bottom. That way, if I do lose orientation, it's a quick procedure to replace the mask and clear it and regain a good visual reference.

We regularly do free ascents and ascents up a line, and shoot bags and ascend while reeling in line. As we've gotten better at keeping our position wrt one another, I have fallen into a trap I know about -- I'm using my teammates as my visual reference. Shortly after Fundies, I managed to cause a 300+ dive technical diver to flip over backwards, because my buoyancy control was so poor, and he had become so dependent on his teammate as a reference. Prior to diving with me, he had not recognized this.

I want to do cave training, so I think it's critically important that I be comfortable and stable with no visual reference AT ALL -- eg. lights out -- and so I have been trying to come up with ways to challenge myself and improve this.

We did some skills where we'd go down, tie off a reel, make a square pattern (or something more complex) and then have each diver (one at a time) remove their mask and attempt to follow the line back to the end.

Seemed to work pretty well. We did it in 20 feet of water, and the diver was not guided. Would also help with line laying practice.

GLOC · May 22nd, 2006, 09:37 PM

Now I know what we are going to do the next time we get blown out! Thanks for the ideas guys....

rjack · May 23rd, 2006, 01:28 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF)

My thought was to do the mask-off work close to the bottom. That way, if I do lose orientation, it's a quick procedure to replace the mask and clear it and regain a good visual reference.

We regularly do free ascents and ascents up a line, and shoot bags and ascend while reeling in line. As we've gotten better at keeping our position wrt one another, I have fallen into a trap I know about -- I'm using my teammates as my visual reference. Shortly after Fundies, I managed to cause a 300+ dive technical diver to flip over backwards, because my buoyancy control was so poor, and he had become so dependent on his teammate as a reference. Prior to diving with me, he had not recognized this.

I want to do cave training, so I think it's critically important that I be comfortable and stable with no visual reference AT ALL -- eg. lights out -- and so I have been trying to come up with ways to challenge myself and improve this.

Demonstrating once again that you're only as good as the weakest link. (I know this role!)

Why not dive in Lake Wa or even at Cove 2 at night and shut off your lights for a time? Better than no mask IMO, but difficult now that the days are so long.

Richard

LCF · May 23rd, 2006, 06:18 AM

Now that it's warming up, I have every intention of getting in my very own swimming pool, in my back yard, and floating around in the dark. There are a lot of ways to approach this problem, I'm just trying to find them all.

sasdasdaf · May 23rd, 2006, 06:33 AM

might be a good idea to practice with mask on, but eyes closed, at first. this way, there is no danger of panicking and not being able to get the mask back on. once you've done this a few times, then take the mask off, but keep it close (for example, hanging off your arm).

May 22nd, 2006, 07:04 AM	#1 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	Touch signalling I have this midwater disorientation thing . . . I want to work on it by doing a bunch of mask-off work (in addition, of course, to the midwater stops/S-drills etc. that we do in the green murk anyway). From Fundies, I'm familiar with the arm hold, and the shoves forward to indicate moving off, and the squeeze to indicate stopping. But what are the touch signals for move up, level off, and move down? And how are they given? Neither my buddy nor I has done this kind of work before, and I'd just as soon we didn't make up our own signals and have to relearn them later.

May 22nd, 2006, 02:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rick(Offline) Jock Exley Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Falkirk/Stratford UK Posts: 730	If your mask off you should signal your team with your primary light and extend your right hand for one of them to grab hold off. So with your hand open, palm down one of your buddies should over lap your hand with his and hold onto your thumb. Level off is a horizontal movement of your hand....up is by your buddy lifting your thumb...down is by your buddy pushing down on your thumb....the more agressive or faster the action happens dictates the urgency you should re-adjust All this is learnt in Tech 1 or sometimes even Cave Hope this helps __________________ Forget Everything And Remember http://phreaticzone.thedeepstop.com/ http://www.dublinbaydiving.com/

May 22nd, 2006, 09:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
GLOC (Online) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,950	Now I know what we are going to do the next time we get blown out! Thanks for the ideas guys.... __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King

May 22nd, 2006, 06:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	Thanks! I'm not ready for Tech 1, but I think the mask off work will help me with other issues.

May 22nd, 2006, 06:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
limeyx(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 707	Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF) I have this midwater disorientation thing . . . I want to work on it by doing a bunch of mask-off work (in addition, of course, to the midwater stops/S-drills etc. that we do in the green murk anyway). From Fundies, I'm familiar with the arm hold, and the shoves forward to indicate moving off, and the squeeze to indicate stopping. But what are the touch signals for move up, level off, and move down? And how are they given? Neither my buddy nor I has done this kind of work before, and I'd just as soon we didn't make up our own signals and have to relearn them later. What kind of dis-orientation? If you are going to practice mask off in mid-water, you want to make sure you are comfy close to the bottom first, and have a way of getting your mask back easily if you panic in mid-water (been there myself) But are you sure mask-off is going to help your problem? How about practicing an ascent/descent drill with stops in mid-water, or even just hanging at 20 feet with no bottom until you get used to it? One way is to go down to 50 or so feet, take an extra weight belt (or find something to tie off to), shoot a bag and attach it to the bottom. Then ascend to 20 feet using the line as a reference, and do your drills at 20 keeping the line in sight and trying not to vary the depth by too much.

May 22nd, 2006, 07:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	My thought was to do the mask-off work close to the bottom. That way, if I do lose orientation, it's a quick procedure to replace the mask and clear it and regain a good visual reference. We regularly do free ascents and ascents up a line, and shoot bags and ascend while reeling in line. As we've gotten better at keeping our position wrt one another, I have fallen into a trap I know about -- I'm using my teammates as my visual reference. Shortly after Fundies, I managed to cause a 300+ dive technical diver to flip over backwards, because my buoyancy control was so poor, and he had become so dependent on his teammate as a reference. Prior to diving with me, he had not recognized this. I want to do cave training, so I think it's critically important that I be comfortable and stable with no visual reference AT ALL -- eg. lights out -- and so I have been trying to come up with ways to challenge myself and improve this.

May 22nd, 2006, 09:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
limeyx(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 707	Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF) My thought was to do the mask-off work close to the bottom. That way, if I do lose orientation, it's a quick procedure to replace the mask and clear it and regain a good visual reference. We regularly do free ascents and ascents up a line, and shoot bags and ascend while reeling in line. As we've gotten better at keeping our position wrt one another, I have fallen into a trap I know about -- I'm using my teammates as my visual reference. Shortly after Fundies, I managed to cause a 300+ dive technical diver to flip over backwards, because my buoyancy control was so poor, and he had become so dependent on his teammate as a reference. Prior to diving with me, he had not recognized this. I want to do cave training, so I think it's critically important that I be comfortable and stable with no visual reference AT ALL -- eg. lights out -- and so I have been trying to come up with ways to challenge myself and improve this. We did some skills where we'd go down, tie off a reel, make a square pattern (or something more complex) and then have each diver (one at a time) remove their mask and attempt to follow the line back to the end. Seemed to work pretty well. We did it in 20 feet of water, and the diver was not guided. Would also help with line laying practice.

May 23rd, 2006, 01:28 AM	#8 (permalink)
rjack(Offline) wet behind the ears Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 860	Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF) My thought was to do the mask-off work close to the bottom. That way, if I do lose orientation, it's a quick procedure to replace the mask and clear it and regain a good visual reference. We regularly do free ascents and ascents up a line, and shoot bags and ascend while reeling in line. As we've gotten better at keeping our position wrt one another, I have fallen into a trap I know about -- I'm using my teammates as my visual reference. Shortly after Fundies, I managed to cause a 300+ dive technical diver to flip over backwards, because my buoyancy control was so poor, and he had become so dependent on his teammate as a reference. Prior to diving with me, he had not recognized this. I want to do cave training, so I think it's critically important that I be comfortable and stable with no visual reference AT ALL -- eg. lights out -- and so I have been trying to come up with ways to challenge myself and improve this. Demonstrating once again that you're only as good as the weakest link. (I know this role!) Why not dive in Lake Wa or even at Cove 2 at night and shut off your lights for a time? Better than no mask IMO, but difficult now that the days are so long. Richard

May 23rd, 2006, 06:18 AM	#9 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	Now that it's warming up, I have every intention of getting in my very own swimming pool, in my back yard, and floating around in the dark. There are a lot of ways to approach this problem, I'm just trying to find them all.

May 23rd, 2006, 06:33 AM	#10 (permalink)
sasdasdaf(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 375	might be a good idea to practice with mask on, but eyes closed, at first. this way, there is no danger of panicking and not being able to get the mask back on. once you've done this a few times, then take the mask off, but keep it close (for example, hanging off your arm).