Cameras and air-sharing

LCF · May 8th, 2006, 07:25 AM

My DIR practice buddy and I did our first pure fun dives together yesterday. I encouraged him to bring his camera. He has a fairly large one, with tray and long-armed strobe.

We did no skills on these dives, but on the way home, my buddy was fussing about air-sharing with the camera. He has his light head on his left hand, and the camera in his right (and I believe a lanyard around the right wrist, although I am not sure). He was having some difficulty figuring out how to do an efficient deployment of the long hose with that setup.

I came up with three options:

1. Drop the camera, accepting that air-hungry buddy trumps need to preserve photographic equipment. This is not a viable option for any underwater photographer I know, and is especially unsuitable for drills.

2. Deploy long hose with camera, and expect that air-hungry buddy will accept being whomped in the face with same in her gratitude for life-saving air. Hope camera survives impact. This won't fly with air-hungry buddy, particularly in the face of repeated practice sessions.

3. Signal air-hungry buddy to wait a few more minutes while camera is properly stowed, then deploy long hose gracefully.

All humor aside, has anybody come up with a really efficient and workable solution to this problem?

MonkSeal · May 8th, 2006, 10:27 AM

Camera has to be neutral. No attachements when deployed (operated). During OOG drop camera (it will stay somewhere near), deploy long hose then take care of camera. I think that's what my DIR instructor told me (if I remember well). I tried S-drill like this and it worked as long as camera was neutral, although it was not so big camera (Oly 5050 with PT-015 housing).

*JohnKendall* · May 8th, 2006, 11:47 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF)

My DIR practice buddy and I did our first pure fun dives together yesterday. I encouraged him to bring his camera. He has a fairly large one, with tray and long-armed strobe.

We did no skills on these dives, but on the way home, my buddy was fussing about air-sharing with the camera. He has his light head on his left hand, and the camera in his right (and I believe a lanyard around the right wrist, although I am not sure). He was having some difficulty figuring out how to do an efficient deployment of the long hose with that setup.

I came up with three options:

1. Drop the camera, accepting that air-hungry buddy trumps need to preserve photographic equipment. This is not a viable option for any underwater photographer I know, and is especially unsuitable for drills.

2. Deploy long hose with camera, and expect that air-hungry buddy will accept being whomped in the face with same in her gratitude for life-saving air. Hope camera survives impact. This won't fly with air-hungry buddy, particularly in the face of repeated practice sessions.

3. Signal air-hungry buddy to wait a few more minutes while camera is properly stowed, then deploy long hose gracefully.

All humor aside, has anybody come up with a really efficient and workable solution to this problem?

I have a leash on my Video Rig which I clip to the crotch D-Ring. So if I have to I can just let it go, and it will dangle about 3' below me, Once the OOA guy has gas, then you can pull it back up and deal with it. As has been said, it's best if the camera is as close to neutral as possible.

HTH
J

jerry.mobbs · May 8th, 2006, 12:07 PM

set your camera up as follows

tie a single arms length piece of scooter cord to the cameras left hand side handle

put a large bulldog clip on the other end

clip this to your left shoulder d ring

tie a ss bulldog clip tight onto the cameras right hand side handle

weight your camera slightly negative

you are now horizontal in the water with your slightly negative camera clipped off to your left shoulder d ring by 2ft of scooter cord

if you have to react immediatley to something, then just drop the camera, it will be 2ft below you

in a silt out, just follow the cord from the left should d ring

if it is positive it may go up above your head and get entangled in line ,wreckage, rond your neck... etc (a problem you can do without)

if it is neutral, then its going to be in the way of whatever problem you want to sort out

if you have time to respond to something then you can either take the clip thats on the cameras right hand side and clip it to the left shoulder d ring, or clip it off to your crotch d ring

either way the camera is out of the way, but close to you

if you have a lot of stages, then i clip to the crotch d ring to protect the lens

if i have no stages, then i clip to the left shoulder

do not clip to the right shoulder d ring as you trap the long hose

nor trap the long hos if you clip to the crotch strap

when you fit the camera to a scooter, just wrap the cord round the handle so its out of the way of the prop

if you disconnect from the scooter to penetrate a wreck, then un clip the cord and carry on as normal

some folk insist on having the camera positive in case they 'lose' it, and it can then float to the surface, this is not needed if its clipped off on a 2ft cord, you wont lose it any more than you will lose a stage or scooter

hope this helps

jerry

LCF · May 8th, 2006, 04:49 PM

Thank you very much -- I will forward the URL for this to my buddy.

Lynne

floater · May 8th, 2006, 06:34 PM

I didn't have a camera with me during my DIRF training dives, nor did I ask about it, so this may not be a good DIR solution and others are welcome to correct me, but here's what I would do. First, I wouldn't use a lanyard around my wrist. Second, if an OOG happened, I'd hold the camera in my left hand and hand over my primary with the right as usual. I'd grab my backup with my mouth instead of using the left hand which was holding the camera. I know some people like to have the bungee necklace looser, but GI3 is always on about how it should be of such length that you can grab your backup with your mouth alone. If I did have a problem using my mouth to retrieve the backup, then I'd just hold my breath until I either had the camera clipped to my left chest d-ring or had finished handing off the primary with the right hand, and would then use the free hand to retrieve the backup. I would then stow the camera more thoroughly if necessary, and hand out the rest of the longhose to the OOG buddy.

rjack · May 8th, 2006, 10:44 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by floater)

I didn't have a camera with me during my DIRF training dives, nor did I ask about it, so this may not be a good DIR solution and others are welcome to correct me, but here's what I would do. First, I wouldn't use a lanyard around my wrist. Second, if an OOG happened, I'd hold the camera in my left hand and hand over my primary with the right as usual. I'd grab my backup with my mouth instead of using the left hand which was holding the camera. I know some people like to have the bungee necklace looser, but GI3 is always on about how it should be of such length that you can grab your backup with your mouth alone. If I did have a problem using my mouth to retrieve the backup, then I'd just hold my breath until I either had the camera clipped to my left chest d-ring or had finished handing off the primary with the right hand, and would then use the free hand to retrieve the backup. I would then stow the camera more thoroughly if necessary, and hand out the rest of the longhose to the OOG buddy.

This is a good solution, although some people use a longish leash and a second short leash. When in use the camera stays on the long leash clipped to the left shoulder d-ring. When not in use you short clip the camera to the same spot.

Right side stays free to deploy long hose, although you can deploy around it depending on camera size.

Some people, like myself don't have a long leash and just use the short. If I'm doing an open water ascent, I prefer to clip off the camera. No wrist loops. I don't like them and I'm either holding the camera, its clipped off, or I've ditched it. My camera is larger than I'd want hanging from my wrist.

I don't do drills with the camera, since I'm willing and will drop it as necessary.

Richard

LCF · May 9th, 2006, 12:07 AM

Clearly, if you have decided you WILL part with the camera, practicing the drills with it is unnecessary. I think Kirk was trying to come up with a viable, camera-preserving alternative

rjack · May 9th, 2006, 12:38 AM

I guess if you want to do drills with a camera you need some sort of "special" techniques. Otherwise you'll be buying alot of cameras!

If you are willing to drop it, you have a more established technique at your disposal.

Obviously, if I've finished and clipped the camera off, I don't unclip it to throw it away - unless its requiring any of my attention then off it goes.

I don't do drills on camera dives. I also don't bring a camera along with new buddies. Nor bring a camera when my buddy is a known 'swimmer'. Also not on tech dives, but that's mostly because the camera is only rated to 120'.

For me, photo dives are planned as such from the start. OOA is a break in that plan and it is now no longer a photo dive.

Richard

LCF · May 9th, 2006, 01:05 AM

Well, Kirk's big motivator for going DIR is to become the safest diver he can be to dive with his kids. My guess is he figures he'll take his camera on dives with them at some point, and therefore, he wants to figure out how to take care of them if need be, without (if possible) losing an expensive piece of gear. But I'm also sure that, if push came to shove, the camera would go and the kids would survive. I'm PRETTY sure he'd do that for me, too . . .

May 8th, 2006, 07:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	Cameras and air-sharing My DIR practice buddy and I did our first pure fun dives together yesterday. I encouraged him to bring his camera. He has a fairly large one, with tray and long-armed strobe. We did no skills on these dives, but on the way home, my buddy was fussing about air-sharing with the camera. He has his light head on his left hand, and the camera in his right (and I believe a lanyard around the right wrist, although I am not sure). He was having some difficulty figuring out how to do an efficient deployment of the long hose with that setup. I came up with three options: 1. Drop the camera, accepting that air-hungry buddy trumps need to preserve photographic equipment. This is not a viable option for any underwater photographer I know, and is especially unsuitable for drills. 2. Deploy long hose with camera, and expect that air-hungry buddy will accept being whomped in the face with same in her gratitude for life-saving air. Hope camera survives impact. This won't fly with air-hungry buddy, particularly in the face of repeated practice sessions. 3. Signal air-hungry buddy to wait a few more minutes while camera is properly stowed, then deploy long hose gracefully. All humor aside, has anybody come up with a really efficient and workable solution to this problem?

May 8th, 2006, 11:47 AM	#3 (permalink)
JohnKendall(Offline) GUE Instructor/DIRX Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 1,097	Quote: (Originally Posted by LCF) My DIR practice buddy and I did our first pure fun dives together yesterday. I encouraged him to bring his camera. He has a fairly large one, with tray and long-armed strobe. We did no skills on these dives, but on the way home, my buddy was fussing about air-sharing with the camera. He has his light head on his left hand, and the camera in his right (and I believe a lanyard around the right wrist, although I am not sure). He was having some difficulty figuring out how to do an efficient deployment of the long hose with that setup. I came up with three options: 1. Drop the camera, accepting that air-hungry buddy trumps need to preserve photographic equipment. This is not a viable option for any underwater photographer I know, and is especially unsuitable for drills. 2. Deploy long hose with camera, and expect that air-hungry buddy will accept being whomped in the face with same in her gratitude for life-saving air. Hope camera survives impact. This won't fly with air-hungry buddy, particularly in the face of repeated practice sessions. 3. Signal air-hungry buddy to wait a few more minutes while camera is properly stowed, then deploy long hose gracefully. All humor aside, has anybody come up with a really efficient and workable solution to this problem? I have a leash on my Video Rig which I clip to the crotch D-Ring. So if I have to I can just let it go, and it will dangle about 3' below me, Once the OOA guy has gas, then you can pull it back up and deal with it. As has been said, it's best if the camera is as close to neutral as possible. HTH J __________________ John Kendall http://www.guetraining.com/ GUE Instruction, Santi and Halcyon Equipment NEW - Online Santi Shop

May 8th, 2006, 12:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
jerry.mobbs(Offline) New Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: asia Posts: 288	An alternative view set your camera up as follows tie a single arms length piece of scooter cord to the cameras left hand side handle put a large bulldog clip on the other end clip this to your left shoulder d ring tie a ss bulldog clip tight onto the cameras right hand side handle weight your camera slightly negative you are now horizontal in the water with your slightly negative camera clipped off to your left shoulder d ring by 2ft of scooter cord if you have to react immediatley to something, then just drop the camera, it will be 2ft below you in a silt out, just follow the cord from the left should d ring if it is positive it may go up above your head and get entangled in line ,wreckage, rond your neck... etc (a problem you can do without) if it is neutral, then its going to be in the way of whatever problem you want to sort out if you have time to respond to something then you can either take the clip thats on the cameras right hand side and clip it to the left shoulder d ring, or clip it off to your crotch d ring either way the camera is out of the way, but close to you if you have a lot of stages, then i clip to the crotch d ring to protect the lens if i have no stages, then i clip to the left shoulder do not clip to the right shoulder d ring as you trap the long hose nor trap the long hos if you clip to the crotch strap when you fit the camera to a scooter, just wrap the cord round the handle so its out of the way of the prop if you disconnect from the scooter to penetrate a wreck, then un clip the cord and carry on as normal some folk insist on having the camera positive in case they 'lose' it, and it can then float to the surface, this is not needed if its clipped off on a 2ft cord, you wont lose it any more than you will lose a stage or scooter hope this helps jerry

May 8th, 2006, 10:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
MonkSeal(Offline) Old Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 472	Camera has to be neutral. No attachements when deployed (operated). During OOG drop camera (it will stay somewhere near), deploy long hose then take care of camera. I think that's what my DIR instructor told me (if I remember well). I tried S-drill like this and it worked as long as camera was neutral, although it was not so big camera (Oly 5050 with PT-015 housing).

May 8th, 2006, 04:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	Thank you very much -- I will forward the URL for this to my buddy. Lynne

May 8th, 2006, 06:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
floater(Offline) Mostly harmless Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Currently in the US, but I'm not American Posts: 155	I didn't have a camera with me during my DIRF training dives, nor did I ask about it, so this may not be a good DIR solution and others are welcome to correct me, but here's what I would do. First, I wouldn't use a lanyard around my wrist. Second, if an OOG happened, I'd hold the camera in my left hand and hand over my primary with the right as usual. I'd grab my backup with my mouth instead of using the left hand which was holding the camera. I know some people like to have the bungee necklace looser, but GI3 is always on about how it should be of such length that you can grab your backup with your mouth alone. If I did have a problem using my mouth to retrieve the backup, then I'd just hold my breath until I either had the camera clipped to my left chest d-ring or had finished handing off the primary with the right hand, and would then use the free hand to retrieve the backup. I would then stow the camera more thoroughly if necessary, and hand out the rest of the longhose to the OOG buddy.

May 8th, 2006, 10:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
rjack(Offline) wet behind the ears Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 860	Quote: (Originally Posted by floater) I didn't have a camera with me during my DIRF training dives, nor did I ask about it, so this may not be a good DIR solution and others are welcome to correct me, but here's what I would do. First, I wouldn't use a lanyard around my wrist. Second, if an OOG happened, I'd hold the camera in my left hand and hand over my primary with the right as usual. I'd grab my backup with my mouth instead of using the left hand which was holding the camera. I know some people like to have the bungee necklace looser, but GI3 is always on about how it should be of such length that you can grab your backup with your mouth alone. If I did have a problem using my mouth to retrieve the backup, then I'd just hold my breath until I either had the camera clipped to my left chest d-ring or had finished handing off the primary with the right hand, and would then use the free hand to retrieve the backup. I would then stow the camera more thoroughly if necessary, and hand out the rest of the longhose to the OOG buddy. This is a good solution, although some people use a longish leash and a second short leash. When in use the camera stays on the long leash clipped to the left shoulder d-ring. When not in use you short clip the camera to the same spot. Right side stays free to deploy long hose, although you can deploy around it depending on camera size. Some people, like myself don't have a long leash and just use the short. If I'm doing an open water ascent, I prefer to clip off the camera. No wrist loops. I don't like them and I'm either holding the camera, its clipped off, or I've ditched it. My camera is larger than I'd want hanging from my wrist. I don't do drills with the camera, since I'm willing and will drop it as necessary. Richard

May 9th, 2006, 12:07 AM	#8 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	Clearly, if you have decided you WILL part with the camera, practicing the drills with it is unnecessary. I think Kirk was trying to come up with a viable, camera-preserving alternative

May 9th, 2006, 12:38 AM	#9 (permalink)
rjack(Offline) wet behind the ears Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 860	I guess if you want to do drills with a camera you need some sort of "special" techniques. Otherwise you'll be buying alot of cameras! If you are willing to drop it, you have a more established technique at your disposal. Obviously, if I've finished and clipped the camera off, I don't unclip it to throw it away - unless its requiring any of my attention then off it goes. I don't do drills on camera dives. I also don't bring a camera along with new buddies. Nor bring a camera when my buddy is a known 'swimmer'. Also not on tech dives, but that's mostly because the camera is only rated to 120'. For me, photo dives are planned as such from the start. OOA is a break in that plan and it is now no longer a photo dive. Richard

May 9th, 2006, 01:05 AM	#10 (permalink)
LCF(Offline) New Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 622	Well, Kirk's big motivator for going DIR is to become the safest diver he can be to dive with his kids. My guess is he figures he'll take his camera on dives with them at some point, and therefore, he wants to figure out how to take care of them if need be, without (if possible) losing an expensive piece of gear. But I'm also sure that, if push came to shove, the camera would go and the kids would survive. I'm PRETTY sure he'd do that for me, too . . .