DIRF + Buying Gear: 'Chicken and egg'?

choong · April 5th, 2006, 03:02 AM

dear all,

i'm a real newbie to diving. having done my padi advanced open water, i've now totalled a modest 35+ dives. however, i was not wholly convinced by the training that i had received from padi and wanted to investigate other methods of diving.

a friend of mine has been extolling the virtues of DIR and i'm very keen to investigate it further. fortunately (or unfortunately), i haven't bought any of my own gear yet, although i definitely want to.

my question is simple enough i think. i'm very keen to do DIRF to learn more about DIR. however, i understand that the course is quite demanding, and the pressures of having to learn a whole new way of diving, with new kit, may mean that i will not fully benefit from the course.

other dir divers have suggested that i should really do a few dives with the new gear to acclimatise myself to it, prior to doing DIRF. the suggestion is that i'll get far more out of the course.

what does everyone think? i'm stuck in a chicken and egg scenario. renting the gear doesn't particularly help... i will still have trouble getting to grips with the new gear and feel i really won't benefit fully from DIRF.

my only thought was to buy some of the gear. at least a single tank BCD. even if i found DIR wasn't for me, i could get used to using it and continue recreational diving with that BCD.

any ideas would be gratefully appreciated!

thanks in advance...

andrew.

Ben_Ca · April 5th, 2006, 04:36 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by choong)

my only thought was to buy some of the gear. at least a single tank BCD. even if i found DIR wasn't for me, i could get used to using it and continue recreational diving with that BCD.

1. Get the gear
2. Find a mentor
3. Dive

Just dive... If you have funds to convert your gear do so... but if you are tight on money just dive and replace/upgrade as soon as the funds allow. Then take the class when you can... and find someone who's already been thru it or a classmate in the same situation and try to dive with them as much as possible... Don't rush it doesn't come overnight.. it didn't for me anyway (DIR-F X 2)

dirdave · April 5th, 2006, 08:31 AM

I was in the sam boat as you , all I did was every chance I got , Pool or ocean , lake or dam was to getin and practice my frog kicks , OOA drills and reel work , it became second nature to me , and then I moved in to twin 7lts and then onto twin 10.5 steels , always learning , if you have the desire , then the money will come to you some way (old Zen saying

)

MJH · April 5th, 2006, 10:04 AM

I am in a very similiar situation to you. I am desperate to do fundies but have decided that it is important to me to get my kit right first.

I was kindly offered the chance to hire kit for the course but I felt that un-familiar kit would leave me struggling to get used to it rather than concentrating on learning new skills.

But more importantly to me I felt that I did not want to complete the Fundies course and then have to go back to using my old kit again afterwards. To me that seemend pointless.

I am getting there slowly and now have an Eclipse wing which I bought from Rich Walker and absolutely love - it is so nice to dive.

This is just my opinion - you need to do what is right for you but I hope it helps

Jonathan · April 5th, 2006, 10:43 AM

Hi Andrew, welcome to the board.

I'm going to go against the grain here.

People's view of fundies certainly in the UK seems to have changed since I first looked into doing it (less than a year ago).

Back then people's advice was "go along and get what you can out of it"

So eventually I did. I turned up on before the course started on day 1 met one of my buddies (Neilh) we both collected our wings and hoses from our instructor (Rich Walker) and he helped us get the kit sorted, we did a dive to see how we got on and then we did the course.

Now it seems people's advice is "get your gear and practice for x amount of time beforehand"

The course was hard (but only really because of the expectations I put on myself), and I got a provisional pass but the instructor gave me a clear indication of what to do to pass and a few training dives later I met up with him and was reevaluated and passed.

So after a long winded story I'd suggest doing what I did - go in with an open mind and just go for it. Speak to your local fundies instructor and see if he'll do what Rich does and help you get your kit sorted beforehand and may be get a dive in with the rig. Prior to that enjoy your diving as normal but concentrate on being neutrally buoyant and knowing what your trim is doing- ie see what happens when you do nothing in the water. IMHO these are the real requisites of fundies.

Hope this helps

Jonathan

Rob Dobson · April 5th, 2006, 10:51 AM

Don't get too hung up on kit. Start by diving with a strong sense of team and environmental awareness, dive to no more than 30m, sort out trim and bouyancy, read "The Fundumentals of Better Diving".

If it makes sense and you want to take this further then when you start to acquire your own kit buy DIR compliant stuff - so don't buy a dive computer, buy a bottom timer (cheaper), don't buy split fins buy Jetfins or Turtles instead and put spring straps on them. Don't buy a BCD but a wing and backplate (often about the same money), when you buy regs get Scubapro MK25 or Apeks DS4 and a 2.13m primary reg hose, buy a simple contents gauge instead of a more expensive console....

This doesn't make you a DIR diver but it makes you a diver who doesn't have to throw their kit away if they decide to go DIR in the future.

HTH

rooster · April 5th, 2006, 11:09 AM

Hi Andrew

I would also get in contact with Andy K or Rich W via the boards. As the UK instructors for GUE they can give better guidance than anyone on what you should do next, based on your diving goals.

Regards

Roy

floater · April 5th, 2006, 02:32 PM

andrew,

if you want to pass fundies, then you should get the gear and practice with it. if you want a tech pass in hopes of taking future GUE tech or cave courses, then you should get doubles and a can light and practice in those. that's just how it is. however, some people don't care about passing, and just show up to see what it's all about and that's fine, but if you then want to take further GUE courses, you'll have to take DIR-F again for a pass this time.

a third option, provided the instructor agrees to provide it (mine did for another student), is that you show up for the first two days of intruction without the gear, just rent or borrow it and see what DIR is all about and then finish the several weeks or months later after you've had a chance to secure your kit and practice in case you decide DIR is for you.

it's a lot of money, but the gear is solid so even if after DIR-F you deicde it's not for you, chances are you'd still want to keep the equipment configuration. in fact, most people don't became 100% DIR right after DIR-F if ever.

lastly, you might want to get your instructor's opinion (and ours) on gear you purchase before the course. they generally explain the gear configuration and why this and that are prefered and what to look for etc. during DIR-F, but if you've already bought the 'wrong' stuff then it's too late. and if you haven't bought anything yet, then it's hard to pass...

cantinadiver · April 5th, 2006, 07:25 PM

Andrew, when I took DIRF in 2002 it was a workshop format, rather than a pass/fail. I'd suggest looking at it as an opportunity to work on your diving skills rather than an examination. IMHO it's a good idea to get together with other DIR divers, get hold of whatever DIR gear you can-if you can afford to buy it, that's great-do as much diving as possible until you have a Fundies class locally and then go for it. As you're probably aware there's alot more to dir than gear-it's a holistic approach and other factors are equally important. Getting together with a team of 'squared away' divers will help you get a handle on the inwater skills and a sense of the big picture before the class.

**neilh** · April 5th, 2006, 09:05 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by choong)

a friend of mine has been extolling the virtues of DIR and i'm very keen to investigate it further. fortunately (or unfortunately), i haven't bought any of my own gear yet, although i definitely want to.

I'd definitely recommend being comfortable with your own kit before the course and not starting the course with completely alien gear. You say that a friend has been talking about DIR, so (huge assumption here) can you hook up with other DIR divers locally and borrow some kit to try out?

As Rob says a backplate and wing is not only DIR, but nice to dive. The long hose configuration is also useful even if you don't follow DIR in the future. You can get the basic kit together that will do you well for quite some time.

You at least have the advantage that you don't have a pile of non-DIR kit already that you're trying to make look DIR

April 5th, 2006, 03:02 AM	#1 (permalink)
choong(Offline) New Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Malaysia Posts: 1	DIRF + Buying Gear: 'Chicken and egg'? dear all, i'm a real newbie to diving. having done my padi advanced open water, i've now totalled a modest 35+ dives. however, i was not wholly convinced by the training that i had received from padi and wanted to investigate other methods of diving. a friend of mine has been extolling the virtues of DIR and i'm very keen to investigate it further. fortunately (or unfortunately), i haven't bought any of my own gear yet, although i definitely want to. my question is simple enough i think. i'm very keen to do DIRF to learn more about DIR. however, i understand that the course is quite demanding, and the pressures of having to learn a whole new way of diving, with new kit, may mean that i will not fully benefit from the course. other dir divers have suggested that i should really do a few dives with the new gear to acclimatise myself to it, prior to doing DIRF. the suggestion is that i'll get far more out of the course. what does everyone think? i'm stuck in a chicken and egg scenario. renting the gear doesn't particularly help... i will still have trouble getting to grips with the new gear and feel i really won't benefit fully from DIRF. my only thought was to buy some of the gear. at least a single tank BCD. even if i found DIR wasn't for me, i could get used to using it and continue recreational diving with that BCD. any ideas would be gratefully appreciated! thanks in advance... andrew.

April 5th, 2006, 08:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
dirdave(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth Western Australia Posts: 42	just do it I was in the sam boat as you , all I did was every chance I got , Pool or ocean , lake or dam was to getin and practice my frog kicks , OOA drills and reel work , it became second nature to me , and then I moved in to twin 7lts and then onto twin 10.5 steels , always learning , if you have the desire , then the money will come to you some way (old Zen saying) __________________ How Hard can it be ?

April 5th, 2006, 02:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
floater(Offline) Mostly harmless Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Currently in the US, but I'm not American Posts: 155	andrew, if you want to pass fundies, then you should get the gear and practice with it. if you want a tech pass in hopes of taking future GUE tech or cave courses, then you should get doubles and a can light and practice in those. that's just how it is. however, some people don't care about passing, and just show up to see what it's all about and that's fine, but if you then want to take further GUE courses, you'll have to take DIR-F again for a pass this time. a third option, provided the instructor agrees to provide it (mine did for another student), is that you show up for the first two days of intruction without the gear, just rent or borrow it and see what DIR is all about and then finish the several weeks or months later after you've had a chance to secure your kit and practice in case you decide DIR is for you. it's a lot of money, but the gear is solid so even if after DIR-F you deicde it's not for you, chances are you'd still want to keep the equipment configuration. in fact, most people don't became 100% DIR right after DIR-F if ever. lastly, you might want to get your instructor's opinion (and ours) on gear you purchase before the course. they generally explain the gear configuration and why this and that are prefered and what to look for etc. during DIR-F, but if you've already bought the 'wrong' stuff then it's too late. and if you haven't bought anything yet, then it's hard to pass... Last edited by floater; April 5th, 2006 at 02:35 PM.

April 5th, 2006, 04:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ben_Ca(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: SF Bay, CA USA Posts: 50	Quote: (Originally Posted by choong) my only thought was to buy some of the gear. at least a single tank BCD. even if i found DIR wasn't for me, i could get used to using it and continue recreational diving with that BCD. 1. Get the gear 2. Find a mentor 3. Dive Just dive... If you have funds to convert your gear do so... but if you are tight on money just dive and replace/upgrade as soon as the funds allow. Then take the class when you can... and find someone who's already been thru it or a classmate in the same situation and try to dive with them as much as possible... Don't rush it doesn't come overnight.. it didn't for me anyway (DIR-F X 2)

April 5th, 2006, 10:04 AM	#4 (permalink)
MJH(Offline) Mask? Oh yes, I thought it was cold.... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Orpington, Kent Posts: 389	I am in a very similiar situation to you. I am desperate to do fundies but have decided that it is important to me to get my kit right first. I was kindly offered the chance to hire kit for the course but I felt that un-familiar kit would leave me struggling to get used to it rather than concentrating on learning new skills. But more importantly to me I felt that I did not want to complete the Fundies course and then have to go back to using my old kit again afterwards. To me that seemend pointless. I am getting there slowly and now have an Eclipse wing which I bought from Rich Walker and absolutely love - it is so nice to dive. This is just my opinion - you need to do what is right for you but I hope it helps

April 5th, 2006, 10:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jonathan(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 215	Hi Andrew, welcome to the board. I'm going to go against the grain here. People's view of fundies certainly in the UK seems to have changed since I first looked into doing it (less than a year ago). Back then people's advice was "go along and get what you can out of it" So eventually I did. I turned up on before the course started on day 1 met one of my buddies (Neilh) we both collected our wings and hoses from our instructor (Rich Walker) and he helped us get the kit sorted, we did a dive to see how we got on and then we did the course. Now it seems people's advice is "get your gear and practice for x amount of time beforehand" The course was hard (but only really because of the expectations I put on myself), and I got a provisional pass but the instructor gave me a clear indication of what to do to pass and a few training dives later I met up with him and was reevaluated and passed. So after a long winded story I'd suggest doing what I did - go in with an open mind and just go for it. Speak to your local fundies instructor and see if he'll do what Rich does and help you get your kit sorted beforehand and may be get a dive in with the rig. Prior to that enjoy your diving as normal but concentrate on being neutrally buoyant and knowing what your trim is doing- ie see what happens when you do nothing in the water. IMHO these are the real requisites of fundies. Hope this helps Jonathan

April 5th, 2006, 10:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
Rob Dobson (Online) Chillin' with the ninjas Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oxford Posts: 533	Don't get too hung up on kit. Start by diving with a strong sense of team and environmental awareness, dive to no more than 30m, sort out trim and bouyancy, read "The Fundumentals of Better Diving". If it makes sense and you want to take this further then when you start to acquire your own kit buy DIR compliant stuff - so don't buy a dive computer, buy a bottom timer (cheaper), don't buy split fins buy Jetfins or Turtles instead and put spring straps on them. Don't buy a BCD but a wing and backplate (often about the same money), when you buy regs get Scubapro MK25 or Apeks DS4 and a 2.13m primary reg hose, buy a simple contents gauge instead of a more expensive console.... This doesn't make you a DIR diver but it makes you a diver who doesn't have to throw their kit away if they decide to go DIR in the future. HTH

April 5th, 2006, 11:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
rooster(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 61	Hi Andrew I would also get in contact with Andy K or Rich W via the boards. As the UK instructors for GUE they can give better guidance than anyone on what you should do next, based on your diving goals. Regards Roy

April 5th, 2006, 07:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
cantinadiver(Offline) New Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: British Columbia Posts: 39	Andrew, when I took DIRF in 2002 it was a workshop format, rather than a pass/fail. I'd suggest looking at it as an opportunity to work on your diving skills rather than an examination. IMHO it's a good idea to get together with other DIR divers, get hold of whatever DIR gear you can-if you can afford to buy it, that's great-do as much diving as possible until you have a Fundies class locally and then go for it. As you're probably aware there's alot more to dir than gear-it's a holistic approach and other factors are equally important. Getting together with a team of 'squared away' divers will help you get a handle on the inwater skills and a sense of the big picture before the class.

April 5th, 2006, 09:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
neilh (Online) Haemoglobin on the bus... Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Barnsley, UK Posts: 1,900	Quote: (Originally Posted by choong) a friend of mine has been extolling the virtues of DIR and i'm very keen to investigate it further. fortunately (or unfortunately), i haven't bought any of my own gear yet, although i definitely want to. I'd definitely recommend being comfortable with your own kit before the course and not starting the course with completely alien gear. You say that a friend has been talking about DIR, so (huge assumption here) can you hook up with other DIR divers locally and borrow some kit to try out? As Rob says a backplate and wing is not only DIR, but nice to dive. The long hose configuration is also useful even if you don't follow DIR in the future. You can get the basic kit together that will do you well for quite some time. You at least have the advantage that you don't have a pile of non-DIR kit already that you're trying to make look DIR