about air break, time

Carlos · August 3rd, 2007, 06:48 PM

Hi, i want know about the time on air break schedule. I count this on deco time or just for clean-up. the schedule i use, is 16 minutes on O2, for 6 minutes on back gas. If some body could help me, i will be glad.

ppo2_diver · August 3rd, 2007, 06:51 PM

I use 12 on, 6 off. I don't count the 6 minutes off O2 as part of the deco schedule.

Robin · August 3rd, 2007, 08:46 PM

Hi :-)

I use 12 mins on O2, 6 mins off and I count this 6 mins as a complete part of the deco schedule. The effect of this Gasbreak is so excellent that you can include this time into your decotime. A cleanup Break of breathable Bottomgas (low ppO2) at the End the 9 m Stop before a "longer" Oxygen expostion works also very well. The magic words a "push and pull" & "inflammatory lung"

cheers

robin

Quote: (Originally Posted by ppo2_diver)

I use 12 on, 6 off. I don't count the 6 minutes off O2 as part of the deco schedule.

*Hassan Adly* · August 3rd, 2007, 10:15 PM

Hello,

The procedure that I follow is 12 mins on O2, 6 mins off, for any oxygen deco longer than 20 mins. Including the gas-break time into the deco time is possible, though it is a shortcut and should be treated as such. I don't recommend it.

Single Tank Numpty · August 4th, 2007, 04:09 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Hassan Adly)

Hello,

The procedure that I follow is 12 mins on O2, 6 mins off, for any oxygen deco longer than 20 mins. Including the gas-break time into the deco time is possible, though it is a shortcut and should be treated as such. I don't recommend it.

It isn't often that you find a GUE instructor suggesting that GUE Tech 1 and 2 teachings are not recommended.

I don't know whether to be shocked or impressed with his radical free thinking!!

GUE don't see it as a shortcut. They teach that the break resets the lungs, and so they recover effectiveness for gas exchange. Therefore if you have 30 mins deco and do 12 on, 6 off, and 12 on again, then they see it as more effective than doing 30 mins straight.

But as with all deco, you must listen to your body and do what you are comfortable with. If you don't feel comfortable with GUE's ideas, then you should follow Hassan's advice.

I can understand why Hassan feels like he does on the shorter dives, where the 6 mins might a large percentage of the total deco time. But I've used the practice regularly on dives that only have 30 mins on oxygen at 6m and I am OK with it.

Either way you should definitely put the air breaks in after 10 or 12 minutes. If you leave it any longer then you risk that the back gas break will not be as effective at re setting things.

5thD-X/Break Thru Diving - ReMOSitory

The above link is to Andrew Georgitsis' article which covers this. If the link doesn't work, go to 5thD-X/Break Thru Diving - Home and follow E-Diver, articles, decompression. You have to register but it is free. This is an updated article where he uses 10/5/10 rather than 12/6/12 that was in the previous version.

Hope this helps.

Mike

*Hassan Adly* · August 4th, 2007, 08:34 AM

Whoah, hold your horses!

Please, no sweeping statements about me being against GUE standards.

I do most of my diving in the Red Sea, where ways and means of shortening deco aren't all that important unless the deco is really long.

So my personal practice for the oxygen deco times, which for me usually range from 15 mins to 30 mins, is to consider only O2 time as deco time. A few more minutes in 27-30 degree water for the sake of added conservatism won't hurt me.

That said, I've done lots of dives where the break time was counted as deco time, either because the team preferred it, or because I felt that the deco profile was conservative enough to begin with. To quote an often-used phrase: it's not an exact science.

Since we are posting links, here is one to a discussion on the subject from Ocean-Discovery, where both viewpoints were expressed: Back Gas Breaks

Single Tank Numpty · August 4th, 2007, 11:32 AM

My reply was a bit cheeky I know, but I couldn't resist.

Thanks for the link. I haven't been allowed to read it yet, but I've registered on the site. Looks good.

Cheers

Mike

graham_hk · August 5th, 2007, 01:52 AM

For several years I have done 12 on 6 off and count the 6 off as deco time
- it is inline with the recent training that I have had. When times do not fit into multiples of 6 it is possible to alter the ratio slightly but this becomes less and less important as the length of stop increase. For example for 20 min I might do 12 on 3 off switch back and then ascend slowly. As with all things I suggest you don't learn off the internet and certainly never ever trust anything I or especially STN quote

Graham

Single Tank Numpty · August 5th, 2007, 08:03 AM

Quote: (Originally Posted by graham_hk)

As with all things I suggest you don't learn off the internet and certainly never ever trust anything I or especially STN quote

Graham

I have to agree with Graham on that one.

cancerchris · August 23rd, 2007, 02:28 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Carlos)

Hi, i want know about the time on air break schedule. I count this on deco time or just for clean-up. the schedule i use, is 16 minutes on O2, for 6 minutes on back gas. If some body could help me, i will be glad.

I use 15 on, 15 off .... that way it gives your body a chance to flush out all that extra 02 and give it a proper gas break. But I don't count the off time as part of my deco schedule,

So 30 mins of pure 02 means 15 on, 15 off, 15 on, 15 off (so an hour of deo) ... my thinking is that using that kind of schedule has got to be conservative - coz technically you're still decompressing when using backgas (not as well though!)

August 3rd, 2007, 06:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Carlos(Offline) New Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brasil Posts: 2	about air break, time Hi, i want know about the time on air break schedule. I count this on deco time or just for clean-up. the schedule i use, is 16 minutes on O2, for 6 minutes on back gas. If some body could help me, i will be glad.

August 3rd, 2007, 06:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
ppo2_diver(Offline) DIR Practitioner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Naperville, IL USA (Chicago Suburb) Posts: 103	I use 12 on, 6 off. I don't count the 6 minutes off O2 as part of the deco schedule. __________________ Duane A. Johnson Precision Diving

August 3rd, 2007, 10:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
Hassan Adly(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Red Sea Posts: 286	Hello, The procedure that I follow is 12 mins on O2, 6 mins off, for any oxygen deco longer than 20 mins. Including the gas-break time into the deco time is possible, though it is a shortcut and should be treated as such. I don't recommend it. __________________ Hassan Adly Red Sea Discovery "Today I will finally see the sea again, which will smell of salt, wind, sand - and the cold of winter. Finally I will not only travel on it but dive in it, again I will become water, a bird - and I will remember the feeling of gliding above the abyss" Elena Sundukova, tragically lost at sea, January 2007

August 4th, 2007, 04:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
Single Tank Numpty(Offline) New Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: As far away from Ginger people as possible Posts: 58	Quote: (Originally Posted by Hassan Adly) Hello, The procedure that I follow is 12 mins on O2, 6 mins off, for any oxygen deco longer than 20 mins. Including the gas-break time into the deco time is possible, though it is a shortcut and should be treated as such. I don't recommend it. It isn't often that you find a GUE instructor suggesting that GUE Tech 1 and 2 teachings are not recommended. I don't know whether to be shocked or impressed with his radical free thinking!! GUE don't see it as a shortcut. They teach that the break resets the lungs, and so they recover effectiveness for gas exchange. Therefore if you have 30 mins deco and do 12 on, 6 off, and 12 on again, then they see it as more effective than doing 30 mins straight. But as with all deco, you must listen to your body and do what you are comfortable with. If you don't feel comfortable with GUE's ideas, then you should follow Hassan's advice. I can understand why Hassan feels like he does on the shorter dives, where the 6 mins might a large percentage of the total deco time. But I've used the practice regularly on dives that only have 30 mins on oxygen at 6m and I am OK with it. Either way you should definitely put the air breaks in after 10 or 12 minutes. If you leave it any longer then you risk that the back gas break will not be as effective at re setting things. 5thD-X/Break Thru Diving - ReMOSitory The above link is to Andrew Georgitsis' article which covers this. If the link doesn't work, go to 5thD-X/Break Thru Diving - Home and follow E-Diver, articles, decompression. You have to register but it is free. This is an updated article where he uses 10/5/10 rather than 12/6/12 that was in the previous version. Hope this helps. Mike __________________ Rule number 7. Don't dive with anyone with seconds on their bottom timer. The only time that I count seconds in my head is when I'm making love with a beautiful woman . 17 is the furthest I've got so far. I firmly believe that it was the best 17 seconds of her life.

August 4th, 2007, 08:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
Hassan Adly(Offline) GUE Instructor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Red Sea Posts: 286	Whoah, hold your horses! Please, no sweeping statements about me being against GUE standards. I do most of my diving in the Red Sea, where ways and means of shortening deco aren't all that important unless the deco is really long. So my personal practice for the oxygen deco times, which for me usually range from 15 mins to 30 mins, is to consider only O2 time as deco time. A few more minutes in 27-30 degree water for the sake of added conservatism won't hurt me. That said, I've done lots of dives where the break time was counted as deco time, either because the team preferred it, or because I felt that the deco profile was conservative enough to begin with. To quote an often-used phrase: it's not an exact science. Since we are posting links, here is one to a discussion on the subject from Ocean-Discovery, where both viewpoints were expressed: Back Gas Breaks __________________ Hassan Adly Red Sea Discovery "Today I will finally see the sea again, which will smell of salt, wind, sand - and the cold of winter. Finally I will not only travel on it but dive in it, again I will become water, a bird - and I will remember the feeling of gliding above the abyss" Elena Sundukova, tragically lost at sea, January 2007 Last edited by Hassan Adly; August 4th, 2007 at 08:37 AM.

August 3rd, 2007, 08:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
Robin (Online) New Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Frankfurt/Main, Germany Posts: 37	Hi :-) I use 12 mins on O2, 6 mins off and I count this 6 mins as a complete part of the deco schedule. The effect of this Gasbreak is so excellent that you can include this time into your decotime. A cleanup Break of breathable Bottomgas (low ppO2) at the End the 9 m Stop before a "longer" Oxygen expostion works also very well. The magic words a "push and pull" & "inflammatory lung" cheers robin Quote: (Originally Posted by ppo2_diver) I use 12 on, 6 off. I don't count the 6 minutes off O2 as part of the deco schedule.

August 4th, 2007, 11:32 AM	#7 (permalink)
Single Tank Numpty(Offline) New Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: As far away from Ginger people as possible Posts: 58	My reply was a bit cheeky I know, but I couldn't resist. Thanks for the link. I haven't been allowed to read it yet, but I've registered on the site. Looks good. Cheers Mike __________________ Rule number 7. Don't dive with anyone with seconds on their bottom timer. The only time that I count seconds in my head is when I'm making love with a beautiful woman . 17 is the furthest I've got so far. I firmly believe that it was the best 17 seconds of her life.

August 5th, 2007, 01:52 AM	#8 (permalink)
graham_hk(Offline) Pinoy ako pinoy Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: here, there and everywhere Posts: 779	For several years I have done 12 on 6 off and count the 6 off as deco time - it is inline with the recent training that I have had. When times do not fit into multiples of 6 it is possible to alter the ratio slightly but this becomes less and less important as the length of stop increase. For example for 20 min I might do 12 on 3 off switch back and then ascend slowly. As with all things I suggest you don't learn off the internet and certainly never ever trust anything I or especially STN quote Graham __________________ DIN caps and plugs with free world wide postage: www.dustcap.halcyon-hk.com

August 5th, 2007, 08:03 AM	#9 (permalink)
Single Tank Numpty(Offline) New Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: As far away from Ginger people as possible Posts: 58	Quote: (Originally Posted by graham_hk) As with all things I suggest you don't learn off the internet and certainly never ever trust anything I or especially STN quote Graham I have to agree with Graham on that one. __________________ Rule number 7. Don't dive with anyone with seconds on their bottom timer. The only time that I count seconds in my head is when I'm making love with a beautiful woman . 17 is the furthest I've got so far. I firmly believe that it was the best 17 seconds of her life.

August 23rd, 2007, 02:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
cancerchris(Offline) New Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Essex Posts: 24	Quote: (Originally Posted by Carlos) Hi, i want know about the time on air break schedule. I count this on deco time or just for clean-up. the schedule i use, is 16 minutes on O2, for 6 minutes on back gas. If some body could help me, i will be glad. I use 15 on, 15 off .... that way it gives your body a chance to flush out all that extra 02 and give it a proper gas break. But I don't count the off time as part of my deco schedule, So 30 mins of pure 02 means 15 on, 15 off, 15 on, 15 off (so an hour of deo) ... my thinking is that using that kind of schedule has got to be conservative - coz technically you're still decompressing when using backgas (not as well though!)