Underwater sneezing/Coughing

Mal Bridgeman · April 12th, 2007, 01:17 PM

Something has been playing on my mind having recently read of an "undeserved" DCS hit.

The only thing that seems to be a little out of the ordinary is that the diver sneezed during the ascent. They are going to be tested for a PFO to determine whether that's the cause.

I understand I have a 1 in 4 chance of having a PFO so it got me wondering, if I sneezed or coughed whilst ascending I have a near 25% chance of having moved bubbles into the venous side. Is there anything that I can do to "help myself" at the time?

Wait for a full circulation to occur (2mins?) after the sneeze/cough, Longer stops on the way up, slower ascents, descend to "crush" bubbles then re-ascend are things that are crossing my mind.

Would any of this be a valid activity ... or should I look on the positive side and think that I have a 75% chance of there being no issue?

Thanks
Mal

***Fiona*** · April 12th, 2007, 01:28 PM

Haven't seen the thread you are referring to Mal, but I cough at some stage during every dive, don't know if it's breathing cold air. Sometimes I end up with quite a coughing fit.

Or maybe it's the cyklons throwing air at me

*Brian Allen* · April 12th, 2007, 02:07 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Fiona)

Haven't seen the thread you are referring to Mal, but I cough at some stage during every dive, don't know if it's breathing cold air. Sometimes I end up with quite a coughing fit.

Or maybe it's the cyklons throwing air at me

It happened to one of the local plymouth divers down here see.... snip

GLOC · April 12th, 2007, 02:10 PM

Edit: Original post not relevant to the discussion

Mal Bridgeman · April 12th, 2007, 02:16 PM

OooooK that *is* what got me thinking about the question but it's not an analysis of that dive I was asking about. As has been pointed out there are other threads on the 'net which are discussing the incident.

So any views on whether anything can be done to help oneself or is it not worth considering?

Thanks
Mal

Andy C · April 12th, 2007, 02:54 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman)

I understand I have a 1 in 4 chance of having a PFO so it got me wondering, if I sneezed or coughed whilst ascending I have a near 25% chance of having moved bubbles into the venous side.

Is it guaranteed that sneezing or coughing will cause bubbles to shunt if you've got a PFO ?

Andy

*Brian Allen* · April 12th, 2007, 03:04 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman)

Would any of this be a valid activity ... or should I look on the positive side and think that I have a 75% chance of there being no issue?

Thanks
Mal

Maybe the DIR answer would be to have a PFO check prior to starting decompression diving. In my experience it's while doing this sort of diving that most people I know got the bend which prompted the PFO check which showed up positive.

I know those with PFOs can still get a "hit" without doing deco on normal shallow dives, but the risk seems to increase with depth / exposure.

Then again alot of people out there will argue they've been diving safely for 10+ years without incident so don't need to check, as they're sure they don't have one.

Doesn't really answer your question tho Mal, but i think altering a dive plan because someone sneezed seems a bit silly when there are other ways to be certain that a PFO is not present.

Personally I was tested about 6 months after birth so I know mine closed properly

All IMHO

wilbo · April 12th, 2007, 03:09 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy C)

Is it guaranteed that sneezing or coughing will cause bubbles to shunt if you've got a PFO ?

Andy

I think 'guaranteed' would be too strong a word - I think the chances would be much higher - but that is just a guess.

Sterny · April 12th, 2007, 03:32 PM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A)

Maybe the DIR answer would be to have a PFO check prior to starting decompression diving.

How do you go about getting tested? See your GP*, or someone else? Anyone know?

* For non-UK members: GPs (General Practitioners) here are the the first port of call in the UK National Health Service for non-emergency things. Your family doctor, who can refer you on to a specialist if he or she thinks there's a need.

***Fiona*** · April 12th, 2007, 03:41 PM

All depends on who is paying, although I am sure your GP has to refer you anyway.

I had one done privately and then referred via a medical referree to Dr W. I had the first one privately as I didn't want to wait for the one on the NHS. DrW didn't care and insisted he did one as well.

April 12th, 2007, 01:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mal Bridgeman(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 661	Underwater sneezing/Coughing Something has been playing on my mind having recently read of an "undeserved" DCS hit. The only thing that seems to be a little out of the ordinary is that the diver sneezed during the ascent. They are going to be tested for a PFO to determine whether that's the cause. I understand I have a 1 in 4 chance of having a PFO so it got me wondering, if I sneezed or coughed whilst ascending I have a near 25% chance of having moved bubbles into the venous side. Is there anything that I can do to "help myself" at the time? Wait for a full circulation to occur (2mins?) after the sneeze/cough, Longer stops on the way up, slower ascents, descend to "crush" bubbles then re-ascend are things that are crossing my mind. Would any of this be a valid activity ... or should I look on the positive side and think that I have a 75% chance of there being no issue? Thanks Mal __________________ Opinions and beliefs are correct at the time of posting but are subject to change without any notice or obligation on the part of the author.

April 12th, 2007, 01:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
*Fiona*(Offline) Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Up North Posts: 1,202	Haven't seen the thread you are referring to Mal, but I cough at some stage during every dive, don't know if it's breathing cold air. Sometimes I end up with quite a coughing fit. Or maybe it's the cyklons throwing air at me __________________ Fiona Resistance was Futile Move Along YD GUE Member

April 12th, 2007, 02:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
Brian Allen (Online) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London & Plymouth Posts: 593	Quote: (Originally Posted by Fiona) Haven't seen the thread you are referring to Mal, but I cough at some stage during every dive, don't know if it's breathing cold air. Sometimes I end up with quite a coughing fit. Or maybe it's the cyklons throwing air at me It happened to one of the local plymouth divers down here see.... snip __________________ ...dive planning again ... GUE fundamentals and Halcyon Equipment Online www.ocean-explorers.co.uk Last edited by Brian Allen; April 12th, 2007 at 03:58 PM. Reason: link removed to protect the innocent

April 12th, 2007, 02:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
GLOC(Offline) Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fleet, Hants Posts: 1,949	Edit: Original post not relevant to the discussion __________________ Gareth Images of Life Photography DIR Team Foxturd Travels Underwater and Further Afar If you don't have the time to do something right, where are you going to find the time to fix it? - Stephen King Last edited by GLOC; April 12th, 2007 at 02:34 PM.

April 12th, 2007, 02:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mal Bridgeman(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Suffolk, UK Posts: 661	OooooK that is what got me thinking about the question but it's not an analysis of that dive I was asking about. As has been pointed out there are other threads on the 'net which are discussing the incident. So any views on whether anything can be done to help oneself or is it not worth considering? Thanks Mal __________________ Opinions and beliefs are correct at the time of posting but are subject to change without any notice or obligation on the part of the author.

April 12th, 2007, 02:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
Andy C(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Harby, Leicestershire, working in Leeds Posts: 142	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman) I understand I have a 1 in 4 chance of having a PFO so it got me wondering, if I sneezed or coughed whilst ascending I have a near 25% chance of having moved bubbles into the venous side. Is it guaranteed that sneezing or coughing will cause bubbles to shunt if you've got a PFO ? Andy __________________ "When the Government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the Government, there is tyranny" - Thomas Jefferson

April 12th, 2007, 03:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
Brian Allen (Online) GUE Instructor Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London & Plymouth Posts: 593	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mal Bridgeman) Would any of this be a valid activity ... or should I look on the positive side and think that I have a 75% chance of there being no issue? Thanks Mal Maybe the DIR answer would be to have a PFO check prior to starting decompression diving. In my experience it's while doing this sort of diving that most people I know got the bend which prompted the PFO check which showed up positive. I know those with PFOs can still get a "hit" without doing deco on normal shallow dives, but the risk seems to increase with depth / exposure. Then again alot of people out there will argue they've been diving safely for 10+ years without incident so don't need to check, as they're sure they don't have one. Doesn't really answer your question tho Mal, but i think altering a dive plan because someone sneezed seems a bit silly when there are other ways to be certain that a PFO is not present. Personally I was tested about 6 months after birth so I know mine closed properly All IMHO __________________ ...dive planning again ... GUE fundamentals and Halcyon Equipment Online www.ocean-explorers.co.uk

April 12th, 2007, 03:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
wilbo(Offline) Chimp 4 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Swindon, UK Posts: 872	Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy C) Is it guaranteed that sneezing or coughing will cause bubbles to shunt if you've got a PFO ? Andy I think 'guaranteed' would be too strong a word - I think the chances would be much higher - but that is just a guess. __________________ Cheers! Wilbo DIR explorers: DIR Yorkshire Divers: YorkshireDivers One of the Foxturd chimps

April 12th, 2007, 03:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
Sterny(Offline) New Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The limpid tropical lagoons of Ealing, West London Posts: 550	Quote: (Originally Posted by Brian A) Maybe the DIR answer would be to have a PFO check prior to starting decompression diving. How do you go about getting tested? See your GP, or someone else? Anyone know? For non-UK members: GPs (General Practitioners) here are the the first port of call in the UK National Health Service for non-emergency things. Your family doctor, who can refer you on to a specialist if he or she thinks there's a need. __________________ "I thought I had a great idea today, but it never really took off. In fact, it didn't even get on the runway. I guess you could say it exploded in the hangar." - Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes Last edited by Sterny; April 12th, 2007 at 03:35 PM.

April 12th, 2007, 03:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
*Fiona*(Offline) Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Up North Posts: 1,202	All depends on who is paying, although I am sure your GP has to refer you anyway. I had one done privately and then referred via a medical referree to Dr W. I had the first one privately as I didn't want to wait for the one on the NHS. DrW didn't care and insisted he did one as well. __________________ Fiona Resistance was Futile Move Along YD GUE Member